Came back and read your LEP post and found I probably should have read it instead of making the snarky comment based on my experience with previous LEP threads. I was pleased to see a positive LEP thread!No worries, mate. Don't mean to speak on behalf of every LEP owner with this thread. Hopefully It's giving a chance for them to voice their own opinions and perspectives. It's actually my aim with starting this thread, believe it or not, not just pushing my agenda or what have you.
Cheers.
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The following, for what it's worth, played at 11 on the hi-fi surround sound while out in the black pretty well explains my own perspective in all this.
Apologies if that's too enigmatic or whatever.
As an LEP owner, what are both your expectations from the game going forward and what you'd hope for it?
- Thread starter WR3ND
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A lot of promises was made by CIG, they were pulled out of thin air, FDEV also promised many features that is still not a part of the game, however that is where the comparances ends, ED never had the money SC received, if we believe the pledge status from CIG, then again FDEV changed many things in the game that never was pitched, and they mostly failed after implementation, they were simply not designed well enough from a gameplay point of view. So even here FDEV invested money in something no one asked for and we can see now a very small part of the player base actually played.
However there is a huge potential in ED, and that is what is frustrating, we can see all the great stuff that could be made with ED, but for some reason even the simple mechanics is not being developed, that is why I is a bit sceptic now, not because I don't believe FDEV can do it, it's more like do they want to do it?
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
The difference in how those features are promised and financed is fundamental to your original “accusation” discussion though. In one case one company is promising a very ambitious and revolutionary scope being funded exclusively with money from others. Still is. It is very easy to promise an extremely ambitious and revolutionary feature set when it is the money of others, not yours, at stake.
The other case (any upcoming Elite paid for content) is being funded primarily on FDEV s own funds and will not be charging the market until it is ready. At which time the market will also be able to wait for reviews before a decision to buy.
On the first case they have already sold to their whole customer base, and are still selling, the moon without you being able to see what it really is. On the other the majority of the market will have to wait until it can actually see the product to be able to pay.
It is the difference between 1) promising the moon and hoping for the best while we take your money, and 2) “what you see is what you get” and pay for it only if you like it.
Not comparable at all.
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Not a LEP owner, so I don't have an opinion on that. Question that should be asked is are there any LEP owners (kickstart funders) that feel that the money they spend on the LEP has been used to produce other games instead and not enough resources were invested in the development of ED?
I mean, it's normal that money earned from one game is invested in the production of future games, but I would probably feel unhappy if the money from my LEP was used to finance other games if I had the feeling not enough money and development went in the game I bought the LEP for or promises were made and not fulfilled and I didn't get the value out of the LEP.
Other publishers are often scrutinized if they spend KS money on something else than the project that the money was raised for.
I mean, it's normal that money earned from one game is invested in the production of future games, but I would probably feel unhappy if the money from my LEP was used to finance other games if I had the feeling not enough money and development went in the game I bought the LEP for or promises were made and not fulfilled and I didn't get the value out of the LEP.
Other publishers are often scrutinized if they spend KS money on something else than the project that the money was raised for.
What I don't want though is more "exclusive" content, it should all be readily available for anyone, just some have to pay like me, and some others shouldn't have to pay (the LEPers
The only "Exclusive" was the cobra 4 really, and that wasn't anything to do with the LEP.
There has been Zero exclusive content related to the LEP.
The reason that LEP holders get any exclusive, is because they exclusives are based on purchasing something before a certain time - and LEP means they purchased everything ages ago.
What you are asking for is exactly how they have done things - some have to pay, some already paid.
But I am guessing you are against time based offers, which I can understand. Just wanted to point out again, that LEP holder have never gotten anything that could not be purchased by anyone else.
My sentiment exactly.Pretty similar:
- Disappointed by the progress made towards the big 'roadmap' goals / paid DLCs
- Underwhelmed by the Seasonal delivery format
- Seeing it as a lesson learned in many respects, but still strangely ok with having 'helped' this odd, overly-ambitious, game along.
- Glad they're moving away from Seasons (even if it means more waiting)
- Quietly confident the 2020 DLC could be a decent improvement
- Would be very surprised to get the full LEP money's worth from this point.
- Do think the game could still go some fun places
- Will be along for the ride
...and I will still off to my cockpit to start the old Viper3's engines as soon as I'm done posting this reply.
I don't think you could credibly claim that at all.
IIRC they didn't even get enough to fund the initial release from the KS, more money had to be pitched in.
I've certainly had value for the money I pledged at KS, I'm just disappointed that it doesn't now look like they're gonna open up the other planets, just seems like a really dumb thing to leave out of this game, especially after all the great foundations they laid with the airless planet building.
Plus the fact they managed to render great, expansive ELW vistas using Cobra in JWE just fine.
But maybe they just lost the expertise, I mean has anyone heard recently from the guy they had that cooked up the Stellar Forge engine, the ex-physicist? Maybe he just left the company.
And I don't suppose an astrophysicist with expertise in planetary formation and software engineering is a particularly easy skill set to find from a Seek ad.
My reading is that's a lot to do with tech debt, for me it looks like features have been added but with clear limitations, probably due to the engine and tech debt.
And so it's come to a point where the engine must be refreshed to allow for progress, specifically to allow for something like Space Legs, and this is what they'll be doing till Dec 2020.
I am one of the angry Lepers. I wasn't for a long long time, but I am now. I feel like I have been the victim of a crime.
I don't see anything good in the future.
Never wanted space legs, it's a different game, and a game that I could hac purchased elsewhere if I had any interest in.
Base building has Grind written all over it.
I don't even have any faith in the future of our current activities, as the 2 main features that I used to participate in have both been dumbed down to the level of pointlessness.
Exploration was great until the jump range inflation took all the variety from the Galaxy (not the fss, that's not my issue)
BGS was very involving until they removed all the strategy aspects. Its now just hitting nails.
I struggle to find anything to keep me engaged, but I do continue struggle.
I don't see anything good in the future.
Never wanted space legs, it's a different game, and a game that I could hac purchased elsewhere if I had any interest in.
Base building has Grind written all over it.
I don't even have any faith in the future of our current activities, as the 2 main features that I used to participate in have both been dumbed down to the level of pointlessness.
Exploration was great until the jump range inflation took all the variety from the Galaxy (not the fss, that's not my issue)
BGS was very involving until they removed all the strategy aspects. Its now just hitting nails.
I struggle to find anything to keep me engaged, but I do continue struggle.
Sorry, forget my expectations.
I expected paid expansions every 18 months or so.
I hoped for depth like tier 2 ncps, military (and other) cariers, more landable planets, multi level strategy that linked squads to minor factions to pp groups to superpowers instead of 4 totally different features.
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That is also my conclusion, that something needed to be done before new stuff could be added, still they didn't need to spin it like it was done.
The degree is different, but both CIG and FDevs have promised content which as yet hasn't been delivered and taken money up front for it.
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
The degree of difference is several orders of magnitude large. So large in fact that questions the relevance of the comparison at all.
- Actual specific promised features and dates committed to contractually in Stretch Goals and Kickstarter (CIG) vs non guaranteed and undefined schedule and content (LEP)
- Totality of the customer base (CIG) vs small minority of LEP buyers
- Features non delivered but still been charged for 7 years and counting (CIG) vs only payable upon release or close to (Elite upcoming paid content)
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Just to clarify: as a non english native speaker I propably make mistakes in the meaning of my words.
I know that there are no exclusives for LEP owners (Cobra --> Horizons pre-order), but in every thread about LEP the calls for "exclusive content" come up.
I'm strictly against any exclusivity, because the Cobra shows this will always end in anger...
I am not especially, or specifically speaking as a LEP owner, but as an Elite fan.
What I had hoped for was a fleshing out of planetary gameplay.
For example we still do not have planetary mining. I envisioned we might get a mining SRV and get a way to scan planetary surfaces, find hotspots on them, and use some kind of drill mechanism on our mining SRV to drill for the subsurface ores.
What I had definitely expected to be in the game by now is more variation of space station exteriors. I would have liked the diverse station types to be recognizable from the outside. A mining station should look completely different from a military station or an industrial station. I think for FDev it should be very easy to replace some of the three standard types with new models.
Also I expected there to be atmospheric differences between Federal space and Imperial space. I think in Imperial space we should hear a different style of music, but also we should see Gutamaya designed spacestations, especially in the important Imperial core systems. When we enter the space of another big faction there should be and atmospheric difference. Everything is still too samey now.
I believe with relatively little effort FDev could have implemented more variation.
What they did for the space station interiors was magnificent, and they should have done the same for the exteriors by now. Too me variation is much more important than the walking around feature and also much easier to realize.
The same could be said about atmospheric planets though. Without completely new gameplay it's just an entry effect, some clouds, fog and different colours. It'll probably look nice though.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
Flight is the core gameplay of Elite, and atmospheric density/weather combined with different ships could have provided a myriad of different flight environments - i.e. gameplay-wise it could have been the best content.
Similar to my earlier reply, the same can be said about space legs.
PS
Anyway, I hope we'll get both, space legs and atmos in 2020.
FDev's business model was clear at the time I bought in, so I've never been hugely bothered by the multi-franchise thing. I see it as welcome background of stability for a niche game in some ways.
These factors are important though:
- Crowdfunding covered less than a quarter of initial costs
- ED apparently has better long-term support than their other franchises. (See here for a 2017 assessment).
- ED seems to be their main showcase for the action & sim capabilities of their game engine. (And if the leak is correct, should remain so for a good while.)
I'd have preferred for it to have been a bigger, faster, dedicated run (& for the 'pay upfront, receive bits later' model to never have been a thing), but given the above, I can live with the franchising on a pragmatic front