add jump mini-game

[Darth Ender]

My premise since the game was first released: Travel takes up the majority of your activity in the game and it's a loading screen. Unacceptable. When it's not a loading screen, it's you repeating the exact same activity (keep pointing at the destination and adjust speed to safe zone) in supercruise. Boring.

Solution:
Jumps: Make jumping a mini-game. Instead of movie that plays while everything loads, instead this should be an interactive mini system that the player navigates. Reaching your destination or falling short depends on your skill at navigating the wormhole. The type of system and distance could dictate the difficulty in reaching it. Failing to reach it would drop you in a closer system.
Bonus: An engineer could mod your ship to remove safety features that keep your ship from jumping off course. Allowing you to activate the jump drive while purposely triggering a mis-jump. This randomizes the mini game and allows you to navigate to any system in the galaxy (though, oddly you wont ever appear to be able to mis-jump into an unobtainable permit system). The fuel use for a mis-jump would be the same as the original, with the amount dictating the percentage chance of which system you may end up in in relation to the distance from your starting point.

The loading of assets for the destination system would happen at the conclusion of the minigame. So that movie portion would be somewhat different from current, but could also be sped up by opportunistically loading multiple potential systems during the mini-game and then dropping the ones that the player doesn't end up in.


Supercruise: This one is hard because it's so fundamentally bad. And implemented different from the books because the books were written with at least a tiny bit of common sense.
Get rid of 3d space from supercruise. You're in hyperspace in supercruise. So many stupid things occur by incorrectly implementing supercruise like some uber fast way of traveling in normal space. It's not.
With this change, we can render supercruise environments completely different from the normal space environment. Both in distances between destinations and in environmental hazards and player/ship hazards and abilities. Instead of time-sinks being a limiting factor / barrier to achieving something, we can make supercruise travel hazardous but short, requiring pilot skill while simultaneously avoiding potential enemies. Flight characteristics could be altered while in supercruise, shields, weapons, and radar all would be altered in supercruise. You wouldn't look like little faeries of light, but instead you'd look normal-ish to others in supercruise. Those not in supercruise wouldn't see you at all. The background visuals and environment could be heavily filled with plasma/fog that obstructs your view of anything distant and obstructs your radar.
To see a system in the traditional view you would have to drop out of supercruise and return to normal space.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

No more minigames please! Especially not unavoidable ones. The absolute LAST thing I want to do is play the same minigame over and over again whilst I'm exploring. If I wanted to do that, I'd use the FSS!
Also, you'd still have to have a loading screen, since the game wouldn't know where you are going to end up until after the minigame had been completed. Loading multiple possible destinations during the minigame would mean the minigame would last for MINUTES and would unfairly punish players on slower connections.

Regarding supercruise, again it's a big, fat no from me. Supercruise is what illustrates the scale of the game. Removing it, or replacing it with something quick would completely remove that scale and render all systems essentially the same. And again, you're suggesting a minigame, which is exactly what ED doesn't need more of.

 

[Lestat]

I wish you did your research before posting. https://www.scribd.com/document/231802796/Elite-Dangerous-David-Braben-Answers-Questions.

Colonel Kenney: “One interesting question I have.
Much of the galaxy will take us a very long time to
get to. Are there any plans of implementing any sort
of “shortcuts” to different parts of the galaxy such
as wormholes? Like something extremely rare butthere are some hidden around for us to discover etc?Like how can we explore the center of the galaxy if itwould take a year of gameplay to get there etc?”

David Branben: No, we’re not planning to implement shortcuts. Forme, one of the attractions is it IS a big achievementto travel a long distance. I like the idea of theoccasional meeting of a player far far out in thegalaxy as a chance encounter. We do plan to seedthings of interest out there too.

 

[Darth Ender]

what mini game does ED have? It's got nothing for jumping, which is what you call exploring. And supercruise doesn't have one unless you consider the sad excuse for interdiction a mini game.

How long it takes is only a problem now because the ONLY point in playing the game is to get to your destination. Everything in between, the part that takes the vast majority of your gameplay time is pointless and devoid of any redeeming qualities so you try to minimize it as much as possible by inflating jump distances and reducing the time and effort needed to traverse those distances.

If you make the journey the game (which is what it should have been from the get-go if Fdev spent any time at all in considering how long players would be doing any given activity) then the fact that it takes more time is not negative. The time spent getting to a destination should be more rewarding than the actual destination in this game. You spend most of your time doing it. So I dont see a problem with adding time back to where we have been stripping it away, because it will be fun instead of a chore and players can migrate away from playing the game simple to arrive at a station and not be flying ..and instead look forward to doing things in between stations.

Scale would still be retained in systems but instead of mindless - pointless time sucks that the current system implements for supercruise that you for some reason want to retain you would have ever increasing hazards the further you travel in supercruise. Since traveling in hyperspace wont behave the same as normalspace, all motion in it increases the uncertainty of navigating in it. So reaching destinations that are further away in normal 3d space can be represented by slightly longer but exponentially more difficult to navigate paths. So a current Supercruise travel that takes 30 minutes would take say 5 minutes. But the last 3 would get exceedingly more difficult to navigate than the first two minutes. With the potential for dropping out off-course being the downside to failing to navigate correctly. Alternatively, smaller hops in and out of supercruise could be taken to avoid being thrown off course if the difficulty is too great.

This would have the added benefit of introducing way stations with a canonical reason for existing, as well as pirate ambush sites etc.

 

[Darth Ender]

I wish you did your research before posting. https://www.scribd.com/document/231802796/Elite-Dangerous-David-Braben-Answers-Questions.

I'm calling high jumping a wormhole because of how it's rendered and behaves. Not because it's physically a wormhole.
For all intents and purposes, high jumping doesn't behave like traveling in hyperspace like the books talk about or anything like simply moving faster in hyperspace the way they behave in supercruise. It behaves like an artificial wormhole does in any other fiction in the game. And it is a total shortcut towards any logical expansion of hyperspace travel as it's described for supercruise.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

How long it takes is only a problem now because the ONLY point in playing the game is to get to your destination. Everything in between, the part that takes the vast majority of your gameplay time is pointless and devoid of any redeeming qualities so you try to minimize it as much as possible by inflating jump distances and reducing the time and effort needed to traverse those distances

This is a 'flying your spaceship' game wherein the gameplay is flying your spaceship. I have absolutely no problem with 'how long it takes', in fact, that's precisely why I enjoy the game so much. If I wanted to play a game that was all about 'action', then I'd play a mission-based arcade space-shooter like X-Wing.

 

[Lestat]

Here the thing. We have 400,000,000,000 systems. Each caters to both our needs. We also have 65,000 Station in our galaxy cater to both our needs. Some Planets or Stations are close some are far. If you accept a mission Maybe take your time to do your research that before going to that station. So instead of complaining maybe what you should do is start using some of the other game functions to determine if a location too far for you or not.

Remember laziness is not a skill.

You adding wormholes you open a can of worms.

 

[Enderby]

If I had to do this everytime I jumped I would not like it.

(Remember the FSS? That's supposedly optional and is annoying as )

 

[nanite2000]

This is a 'flying your spaceship' game wherein the gameplay is flying your spaceship. I have absolutely no problem with 'how long it takes', in fact, that's precisely why I enjoy the game so much. If I wanted to play a game that was all about 'action', then I'd play a mission-based arcade space-shooter like X-Wing.

Except we're not really 'flying' when in SuperCruise, are we? Just centre on your destination, throttle up and wait. And now, with SuperCruise Assist, there's even less 'flying' involved.

So let's not kid ourselves that long boring journeys in SuperCruise are in any way close to 'flying' your space ship.

While I don't necessarily agree with the OP's specific suggestion for improving SuperCruise, I absolutely support his desire for wanting it to change/improve.

Here the thing. We have 400,000,000,000 systems. Each caters to both our needs. We also have 65,000 Station in our galaxy cater to both our needs. Some are close some are far. If you accept a mission Maybe take your time to do your research that before going to that station. So instead of complaining maybe what you should do is start using some of the other game functions to determine if a location too far for you or not.

Remember laziness is not a skill.

You adding wormholes you open a can of worms.

Oh, Lestat - here we go again.

Let's address your arguments again shall we?

Here the thing. We have 400,000,000,000 systems. Each caters to both our needs. We also have 65,000 Station in our galaxy cater to both our needs. Some are close some are far. If you accept a mission Maybe take your time to do your research that before going to that station. So instead of complaining maybe what you should do is start using some of the other game functions to determine if a location too far for you or not.

Where does the OP specify this request is just for missions?
Where did the OP specify this was for easier station access?
How does the current SuperCruise mechanic benefit explorers who do not know the system topography before they enter it?

Remember laziness is not a skill.

If laziness were a skill, you'd be the most skilled player in the game, because you conflate 'time-consuming' with 'skill'.

There is literally zero skill involved in pointing your ship to it's destination, throttling up, and waiting. And waiting. And waiting...

In fact, in another thread, you accused another user of being lazy when they suggested something that might allow them to go away-from-keyboard (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/index.php?threads/ignore-illegal-illicit-cargo.512183/post-7801080). And yet you're OK with long, boring SuperCruise journeys that allow you to go away-from-keyboard.

Why are you OK with the current lazy SuperCruise mechanic, but not others?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Except we're not really 'flying' when in SuperCruise, are we? Just centre on your destination, throttle up and wait. And now, with SuperCruise Assist, there's even less 'flying' involved.

So let's not kid ourselves that long boring journeys in SuperCruise are in any way close to 'flying' your space ship.

It probably doesn't surprise you that I have no intention of using the SCA. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't, since the introduction of the FSS means that I'm discovering planets using parallax and proximity resolution. So yeah, I'm absolutely flying my spaceship in supercruise, because I'm constantly scanning the skybox and making course adjustments to identify planetary bodies. And when I find a moving dot then I'm constantly tracking the rate at which it moves so that I can identify when I need to throttle down so I don't barrel past it so quickly that the proximity resolve doesn't trigger.

Now if you want an optional supercruise shortcut module that I can avoid fitting, then I'd have no problem with that since I'd just not fit it. (Of course, you'll have to get the concept past everyone else).
Just leave the old-school supercruise alone so that those of us who enjoy it can carry on enjoying it.

 

[Bigmaec]

Perhaps we can get an optional jump minigame module and the accompanying c1 module slot? We don't have enough hit points yet on our ships.
/s

 

[nanite2000]

Just leave the old-school supercruise alone so that those of us who enjoy it can carry on enjoying it.

I'd be OK with an enhancement which, if the player did nothing, they would get SuperCruise exactly as it is right now.

But, if the player did something (ideally a skill-based something, like hitting a boost button with some constraints or navigating gravimetric fields), then that should typically result in (much) faster travel. And there should also be an associated risk in doing so (e.g. overshooting your target, heat damage, etc...).

I'd prefer this to not take up an optional module, but whatever.

 

[EUS]

My premise since the game was first released: Travel takes up the majority of your activity in the game and it's a loading screen. Unacceptable. When it's not a loading screen, it's you repeating the exact same activity (keep pointing at the destination and adjust speed to safe zone) in supercruise. Boring.

Absolutely agree with your assessment of the problems.
But not the solutions. FD's track record on mini-games is (IMHO) terrible.
I haven't played ED since trying to do DW2, and the FSS mini-game has made me quit. Exploration is my only Elite I hold, and I cannot stand to do it anymore.

SC flight is absolutely mind-numbing.
I have no idea how this should be fixed. My suggestion a long time ago was to at the very least implement the regular flight model into SC and lore be damned, because I lack imagination.

 

[lenna]

Jumps: Make jumping a mini-game.

Absolutely not, no way and no how! I even deplore the blob-hunt and space-golf that 3.3 has turned exploration into - the exact opposite of an improvement in my books.

I am dead against the principle of mini-games in ED and oppose all suggestions that go too far in that direction (e.g. this suggestion and the FSS/DSS revisions).

Jumping and super cruise do not need any more interactivity than they already have.

 

[Enderby]

Ideally, FD should add new stuff instead of messing about with stuff already in the 'game'.

 

[Darth Ender]

This is a 'flying your spaceship' game wherein the gameplay is flying your spaceship. I have absolutely no problem with 'how long it takes', in fact, that's precisely why I enjoy the game so much. If I wanted to play a game that was all about 'action', then I'd play a mission-based arcade space-shooter like X-Wing.

I'd love it if it was about flying around but when you dont put anything worthwhile to do while flying around except the above, it ceases to be about that. I'm throwing out some ideas that would bring it back to being about flying around. Whether that occurs via a trigger action or free-style doesn't matter. There's a real reason why there has been and continues to be so much pressure to expand jump distances, reduce time in supercruise and add autopilot features. The part of the game you say you like - doesn't exist.

Right now you're playing a game where nothing you do matters, we shift faction control and powers around to no effect, we are in the midst of an alien invasion that you can easily ignore is happening pretty much anywhere you feel like playing. .. You can explore billions of planets/systems and none of it matters or differs in any meaningful way other than data fields in info screens that dont impact the game or provide any gameplay impact the player can use. All for credits that dont have any value because you can easily acquire enough to devalue everything in the game to effectively free, and crafting items that require absolutely zero skill or reflect a fixed resource amount that gets used up - so no strategy. Every adventure you have is a 30 minute sitcom that may as well have never happened because even when you do participate in something like the BGS or powerplay, your efforts dont effectively change anything about how the game plays out.

At this point, I can't help but think that people say they like the game simply because they know it has so few redeeming qualities that if it remains the way it is, they'll be the only ones left playing and can finally feel like they're the biggest bad in the universe.

I'm not making a suggestion to fix everything mentioned above. Just low hanging fruit for one issue.

Once it's done or something similar to it is done, you can expand on it to start rolling back the jump range inflation. Once that's done the game layout begins to make sense again and territories begin to make sense again (nothing about how expansion, trade, or wars operate make any sense when you can jump 50 ly in a single hop). Once that's done maybe we'll be ready for the next installment of elite where they do things right and make what players do actually matter. Make powerplay procedural and implement collapse. Make resources finite and implement exhaustion. Make npc/ship production depend on resources. Allow entire factions to collapse fully. Even allow superpowers to collapse - potentially rendering access to superpower specific ship layouts impossible. Make credits finite and based on actually simulated inflation based around new resource discoveries as huminity expands into the galaxy (or vice versa). Have station access and NPC interaction depend on faction control and relationships rather than just individual player reputation (a heavily weighted system based on faction<->faction which changes depending on trade interaction and hostility done by players and based on a procedurally generated starting point and expansion history). Have exploration able to create "claims" that cause npc's to spawn as miners in an area ...which can also draw pirates ...or when multiple factions try to claim a new system, unofficial skirmishes and wars. All of which impact the treasury and resources available in a never-ending feedback loop of awesome. Where the invisible hand of FD is not needed and the players really do have the power to shape not just our own path ...but the evolution of humanity's place in the galaxy ...for better or worse.

Absolutely not, no way and no how! I even deplore the blob-hunt and space-golf that 3.3 has turned exploration into - the exact opposite of an improvement in my books.

I am dead against the principle of mini-games in ED and oppose all suggestions that go too far in that direction (e.g. this suggestion and the FSS/DSS revisions).

Jumping and super cruise do not need any more interactivity than they already have.

If your argument is that jumping and supercruise are fine the way they are then your entire opinion can't be considered serious. They're completely and totally devoid of any redeeming gameplay and yet they make up the majority of what you do in this game. Provide an idea that's different to fix it. Nobody is interested in hearing anyone pretend like they're happy with how traveling in the game is currently implemented because it's such an obvious lie that it can only be seen as trolling or flamebait.

 

[Troopi]

The only thing supercruise needs is using the boost to increase acceleration when under low speeds. There's a topic about this.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/index.php?threads/idea-supercruise-modification-for-space-legs.510898/

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Yeah, lets make 100 jumps even more tedious than it already is.

 

[lostagain]

Yeah, lets make 100 jumps even more tedious than it already is.

And don't forget. We also get another engineer.
Pure joy. Just let me off at the next stop.

 

[Darth Ender]

why do you think you'll be making 100 jumps in a single sitting? you do now because there's nothing in between. Why is the act of jumping and traveling so loathsome? I get the feeling that neither of the last people read the suggestion or maybe they dont understand english.

Focus less on being hungup on the idea of a minigame for no purpose and rather on the resulting starting point that such minigames or other similar type of solution would bring (along with the taking away the normal-space view of hyperspace while in SC). It will potentially force you to drop into normal space at fairly known areas given specific destinations. This opens up lore and gameplay options that dont currently make any sense and can potentially create a piracy mechanic that makes sense in the game and relies less on stupid interdiction mechanics that dont. It will force players off course sometimes. Varying the path players take to those that they may never have decided to take and potentially enriching that experience (or simply causing a mission to fail or delay needed reinforcements).

The goal is to shift the point of playing from reaching your destination and making the activity and action out in space the main point. Where every time you venture out, you can't predict what will happen. Where your biggest worry is not flying into a sun after a jump (like it used to be) or overshooting your space station because you fell asleep on your way to it even though it's only 3 minutes away from your jump in point. Throw variety and unknown into every time you leave the safety of a station ...and make it skill based.

Whatever the solution: high skill == less time and lowest skill == current times. Roll back jump inflation, rely on skill to allow bypassing time-sinks rather than nerfing the underlying basis of the game's lore. Leverage that new skill-based mechanic to enrich the gameplay between stations


Ideally, almost nobody would ever do 100 jumps in a row. Almost nobody would venture out deep across the galaxy. Maybe 0.01% of players would take the immense time it takes to reach the other side of the galaxy.. If that. . Not because it takes so long to do it. But because there's no need to. There would be too much going on and too much happening everywhere that you wouldn't get bored playing even within the bubble the entire time you play the game. The cost-benefit relationship of deep exploration would be far too expensive for most players and that's how it should be. But it would be less about being able to suffer thru unending loading screens and simply because you can get all that excitement of seeing the unknown right in our backyard. Making the travels of those that do suffer the time it takes to get out all the more special, even if what they're doing will almost always be worth less and less since it's too far away to be of any practical use to anyone. Unless they find raxxla.