Klaxian invasion?!

[Noobilite]

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/428814193?t=00h56m58s

Point of reference is around the 2 hour 8 minute mark.

I was watching this from the raxxla thread I think. He mentions maybe the thargoids used us as bullet shields. I wonder if they are a part of some effort to get out tech up by attacking us for tougher enemies. Wether that is connected to something like the club or another group for altruistic reasons or as a means of gain in some other goal. The one thing it has produced is better tech.

 

[Sapyx]

I'm pretty sure that the whole Oresrian/Kalaxian thing is "old lore", built upon by Drew, and is not included in the official ED canon. Indeed, the Guardian-Thargoid interactions imply that the Thargoids are not "running from anything" - they're just migratory.

As for the theory that the Thargoids are deliberately trying to "uplift" us, all I can say is this: look at Earth history, and all the times that someone "sold guns to the natives". It's always ended badly for the side selling the guns, in the long term. The Thargoids, who have millions of years of experience with dealing with lesser species, would have learned this same lesson long ago.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I'm pretty sure that the whole Oresrian/Kalaxian thing is "old lore", built upon by Drew, and is not included in the official ED canon.

If it shows up in the officially-approved novels (and I believe it's not just Drew's it's in) then it's canon. There probably are two Thargoid groups in a civil war.

However, I suspect there's been something seriously misunderstood with the "use us as a shield to cover their retreat" interpretation of their actions, as it has three major flaws.
1) If we assume the Thargoids already attacking us are the Oresrians, they're quite capable of passing through the bubble in maybe 8 weeks (assuming a maximum speed of 50LY/week), without taking serious losses. The Klaxians are supposedly tougher, so we shouldn't slow them down at all.
2) The bubble is tiny. Even if we developed weapons like the mycoid virus that could seriously threaten them ... they could just go around. If you look at the presumed size of Thargoid space, there is basically nowhere in the galaxy that requires you to pass through the bubble to reach it from there.
3) They're not showing any signs of wanting to be anywhere in particular. If they were just passing through while running away, they should have gone by now. And the other side should have caught up with them.

My guess is that:
- they seeded human space and maybe stored resources here the last time they were around (Sarasvati logs, Guardian interactions with them)
- now they're desperate enough to need those things back to gain the upper hand in the civil war
- so an expeditionary force has been sent with an experimental mycoid vaccine to try to get hold of those supplies, despite the humans still being angry
- now they're engaged in a tough fight to disable enough human infrastructure to be able to recover their resources without interference, and take them back to win the war

 

[Vasious]

If it shows up in the officially-approved novels (and I believe it's not just Drew's it's in) then it's canon. There probably are two Thargoid groups in a civil war.

Well some Thargoids who wanted stuff from humans told said Humans about said civil war as a reason to help.

Spoiler

Specifically
A group of Thargoids got a human to develop super human pilots so the Thargoid could use the tactic developed by the humans to get an upper hand in a civil war.
And the Human Believed them.
Of coruse if the Thargoids were going to carry out an invasion to remove humans from their Meta Alloy sites, having super human Pilots show them the best of the best Human tactics would be also quite useful and the Civil war thing could have been a complete ruse to get the Human to cooperate, as after all, that said human had a Huge Ego and that the Thargoids came to him for help, meant he would believe what ever story he was fed.

I see it as in the 1930 the Imperial Japanese Navy going to the USA to ask for the USN to tech them all their tactics, and the Japanese are involved in a War in China and could really use those tactics to help them win in China, and would totally not use what they learn against the the USN.

I think the Oresrian Klaxian civil war is a true red herring seeded by the Thargoids to give some of their operatives a reason to say
"you can trust us, we are the good Thargoids"

As whilst the Oresrian Klaxian civil war information appears in the official novels, it is always reported by Humans to other humans, and we never see any evidence of it, or a Oresrian or a Klaxian.

I believe the Thargoids having suffered a defeat due to the Mycoid in the 3100s, have prepared more this time, so as to not make the same mistake.

They come in ships now immune to Human weapons, and have had agents go a head of the invasion for years to study humans, earning collaborators with the whole Oresrian Klaxian civil war, we need your help, story to learn about humans and the way we wage war.

Humanity's individuality and thus lack of a unified front could be seen as the perfect exploitable weakness

 

[GreyAreaUK]

The Oresrians were mentioned in 'The Dark Wheel', the novella that accompanied the original BBC Micro game:

"'Bull***,' McGreavy said, and dragged Alex away. 'They're Oresrians, and the one thing that can make an Oresrian deadly is being confused the way you've just confused them, with their deadly enemies the Thargoids."

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

It is very strange how this thargoid klaxian / oresrian story arc just fizzled out, especially when FDev had commissioned the novel "premonition", which is why reading through it reads like a feature list of Elite Dangerous.

Going back to the pleiades and thargoids, given the Federations links to black flight, and the fact they spearheaded the pleiades gold rush for meta alloys, and locked down Professor Palin with a farragut battle cruiser, and one/some of the other crash sites, they are definitely up to something hinky, seriously hinky. I also think that it is extremely curious that all we have seen of thargoids, whatever dynasty/dynasties they are from, have all been variants of scouts and interceptors, nothing bigger. I mean in our current 21st century warfare, we use fighter jets as interceptors, the real fire power is carried in various members of our carrier battle groups. Or to use an in game analogy, if what we have seen is their equivalent of an imperial eagle and their equivalent of imperial courier what in randominous will their equivalent of an imperial cutter (frigate) or a majestic interdictor (destroyer / cruiser) look like? It wouldn't surprise me if those bigger thargoid assets, their frigates and cruisers, are being designed for 2020 as boardable via space legs FPS "maps". I don't know, but im envisaging something like shoot a hole in the hull of the "hive ships" (bigger thargoid ships) from your ship, ejevt and board the ship through the penetration you just cut in it and FPS your way to some vital organs/systems to plant bombs to blow the thing from the inside out. Could be as simple as placing charges on or near the "stomach" to release the caustic acit to corrode the ship from its inside, letting its stomach acid disolve its other organs, like a "gut shot". Or it could be make your way through the thargoid hive ship and commandeer a thargoid scout / interceptor. Or if the oresrian / klaxian arc gets reignited we could dock at an oresrian ship, and have proper dialogue with them.

Personally I think that a few years ago when "the new movie franchise" was announced, that stole a lot of development resources from elite, which stalled the thargoid story arc. I'm guessing JWE was too good a deal to miss from frontiers point of view, and thats why we got "Beyond" for free. Now they needed to do something big with elite, and as such are working on the "New Era" update, which would be legs, and they will tie "legs" into the thargoid story arc with FPS as per the "leak"/unofficial announcements.

 

[Hossi]

There is not, and never was, a single mentioning of Oresrians/Kalaxians or generally different thargoid groups in the whole game, galnet or any statement from the devs.
In the game there are just 'Thargoids'.
While the books are generally canon, fd also said that not every detail in the books is exactly like in game. And obviously not everyone in the books is telling the truth.
That doesn't mean that there aren't differnt goid groups in game, there just is no sign of this.

 

[Sapyx]

The Oresrians were mentioned in 'The Dark Wheel', the novella that accompanied the original BBC Micro game:

Exactly. They're "old lore", retconned out of existence, just like the hundreds of other sentient spacefaring humanoid, avian, reptilian, insectiod and walking-treeoid species that used to exist in the original Elite game. If you read the novella, the Oresrians aren't a "faction of the Thargoid species", they're a completely separate species, native to an entirely different planet (presumably the planet Oresre) - they and the Thargoids just happened to both be insectiod races, and for humans (and many other non-human races), "all bugs look alike", so the Oresrians were often mistaken for Thargoids.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Thing is, while there was a massive retcon of old lore, like the imperial courier not being an approximation of what we now call a clipper, but instead being a viper like craft, the aforementioned Elite;Dangerous novels, not the original Elite:1984 novel, were based on lore pack from Frontier themselves. These Lore Packs provided to the authors are partially covered by NDA's so they cannot reveal the specifics, but the generalities can and have been disclosed, and it has been communicated to the players, without repudiation from Frontier that there are those two dynasties. Furthermore, remember, Frontier commissioned the second Drew Wagar Elite;Dangerous novel, "Premonition", they held the purse strings and pulled his strings on it, hence it mentioning everything in game upto the point of its release (SRV's Thargoids, CQC, Powerplay, Engineers,etc...), with the notable exception of the guardians which weren't mentioned at that point. Thus its not unreasonable to conclude that Oresrians and Klaxians are Frontier Lore, their existance has not been repudiated over5 years of game and community, and they were mentioned in a book that they commissioned.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

This page doesnt have the smoking gun saying "Frontier made me do it", but it does go into how closely Frontier were involved with the project of "Premonition", and clearly states that they approached Drew about writing the book and that he was read in on a lot of confidential content for the game, and it would be 100% canon, as it should be, being an official frontier comissioned book, rather than an officially licensed book.

https://www.drewwagar.com/announcements/elite-dangerous-premonition/

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Ergo the book is written to Frontiers spec, using their internal confidential lore packs and content plans as guidance, and is 100% canonical, so if premonition mentioned Klaxxians and Oresrians - that came from Frontier.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

They are in the game since almost 2 years and the story is still frozen... What do you expect from FDev? It's just an enemy for more pew pew..

 

[Dutchman141]

They are in the game since almost 2 years and the story is still frozen... What do you expect from FDev? It's just an enemy for more pew pew..

This.

We can speculate all we want but all Fdev did was bring the Thargoids into the game and we can shoot them, period.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Here's thoughts if had for quite some time:
1) If the Thargoids were truly at war with humans, the entire bubble would have been decimated long ago. No race as advanced as they are could be as inept at war.
2) If the Thargoids we are seeing so far were trying to smarten us up for a future fight, why didn't the opposition come and wipe us out already?
3) The Thargoid conflict started and ramped up very slowly with vary little perceivable logic. This suggests that the operation needed resources in the beginning or was covering up a smaller covert operation in the beginning.
3a) I've joked before that the Thargoids needed human brains/bodys/souls for use in their offensive. Could that be it? It's weak and very B Movie. I hope not.
3b) Are their attacks made to make humans look the other way while they do thing elsewhere? I bet this has some validity, but it's very broad.

I truely hope Frontier has a plot plan and haven't just said F it like Disney has to Star Wars.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Oresrians and Klaxians are official lore, or else Frontier wouldn't have approved of their mention in the novel Premonition. The Club is also lore for that same reason.

The problem is that game design hasn't proceeded in such a way to show us how this lore manifests itself in the game. We have Thargoids, yes- but no way to know which is which. The Club, too, can only be assumed to be pulling strings from behind the shadows, which has the added bonus (for Frontier) of shifting that particular storytelling burden onto us, the players.

 

[Vasious]

Oresrians and Klaxians are official lore, or else Frontier wouldn't have approved of their mention in the novel Premonition. The Club is also lore for that same reason.

The problem is that game design hasn't proceeded in such a way to show us how this lore manifests itself in the game. We have Thargoids, yes- but no way to know which is which. The Club, too, can only be assumed to be pulling strings from behind the shadows, which has the added bonus (for Frontier) of shifting that particular storytelling burden onto us, the players.

It is not a matter of if the Oresrians and Klaxians are official lore from Frontier or not
But if the Characters in the official fiction talking about Oresrians and Klaxians are actually factually correct about them in the in game universe.
Characters can believe it to be true but it is actually wrong, in universe.

This belief in the Oresrians Klaxians Civil war has been a driving force behind the actions of several powerful factions in the game lore, but if this belief in something that turns out to be wrong, could explain why all the preparations seem to have ended in nought.

I mean the Club has been an absolute failure to date.

The Dynasty Project a failure as otherwise there would be colonies there already, once the Thargoids arrived it was too late
It was also a plan based on Pre FSD technology which out moded it.
The Push the Superpowers into a military build up yielded increased numbers of Capital Ships useless against the Shut down fields
The Wake Suppression tech to allow the escape seems to have been pointless as the Thargoids don't seem to be have bothered humanity when we are not near Barnacles so there was no need to conceal the retreat to the worlds that were never colonised as part of the dynasty project.
Maybe if you consider the Club was behind the free Sidewinders and CQC and thus succeeded in creating a Combat force out of the independent pilots of the Pilots Federation to combat the Thargoids, that might be their only win, but that relied on the exploitation of Guardian Tech, which was a result of Halsey's Visions (being made into a YouTube video...) which is something so unreliable it can have been part of the Clubs plan so just a happy coincidence.

All this seems to point to the Oresrians Klaxians Civil war being Canon Misinformation fed to Humanity by the Thargoids in order to make sure humanity was ill prepared for their return, with Humanities elite ready to flee, and fleets of ships capital ships vulnerable to

A possible Galaxy spanning civilization millions of years old, is surely able to pull off a Caprica 6 level deception to undermine humanity's defence preparations, by exploiting the fact that Humanity is not a Hive mind but Trillions of individuals that can be manipulated

In the Novels we are only exposed to the idea of the Oresrians Klaxians Civil war by Characters telling other characters of it, second hand
As readers, from our greater vantage point, we still never see an explicitly Oresrian or explicitly Klaxian or a Thargoid kill another Thargoid
We only get reported information.
I think that is a deliberate choice.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The markings on Thargoid ships seem to indicate at least 3 different "clans". FD might no longer be using Klaxians/Oresians, but it might be there are different families/clans/groups within the Thargoids... however, they all seem to have a dislike of humanty, so its not like it makes a difference to us.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Vasious, Totally agree with a lot of your points there, but I don't see how the sidewinders and CQC relied on Guardian Tech. I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on Halseys visions?

 

[Vasious]

Vasious, Totally agree with a lot of your points there, but I don't see how the sidewinders and CQC relied on Guardian Tech. I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on Halseys visions?

So the theory goes, that the Club is behind CQC and is the mysterious benefactor that provided all these Pilots Federation graduates their first Leased Sidewinder in order to develop a combat ready force to take on the Thargoids upon their return.

But since all AX Weapon reply on Guardian Tech, even the Aegis Project Parity weapons, since they needed Guardian Relics for their development CG, this independent Pilot force would have failed if we did not discover the Guardian worlds.

Now how did we discover the Guardian Ruins.
Reality is Cdmr xDeath used the stars in a You tube Trailer
The Codex however states

So I assume the middle ground; that Halsey spoke often of her visions, and a group of her followers turned them into a Dreamware experience to spread the message.
After using that dreamware program Cmdr xDeath went looking and found the first guardian ruins.

It was a very fortuitous vision if it was part of he Clubs plan

 

[Aldaris]

All this seems to point to the Oresrians Klaxians Civil war being Canon Misinformation fed to Humanity by the Thargoids in order to make sure humanity was ill prepared for their return, with Humanities elite ready to flee, and fleets of ships capital ships vulnerable to

A possible Galaxy spanning civilization millions of years old, is surely able to pull off a Caprica 6 level deception to undermine humanity's defence preparations, by exploiting the fact that Humanity is not a Hive mind but Trillions of individuals that can be manipulate.

Except why? Why would an advanced multi million year species that show a clear technological advantage suddenly resort to subterfuge? There's no indication it was necessary against the Guardians who soundly beat them. Why would an insect like hive mind who clearly have zero problems just throwing enough numbers at things as a military tactic suddenly change things up?

That seems to more point to me that it's either a manipulation from The Club for their own personal gain, or the situation is true and there has been a societal upset in Thargoids.