PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Other than trying something new in an old feature that has no real place in ED. Unless FD tackle the underpinning issues like AFK in PG, or the lifeless grind in Solo that has proven so popular, weighted merits or Open are the only way to go- because thats what FD asked us to consider as thats the solution they came up with four times in a row.
If the "lifeless grind in Solo" is so popular (and Frontier have the stats) - why would it be removed?

Frontier put forward a series of proposals in the Flash Topic - and they gathered feedback. Like it or not, the feedback was not unanimously in favour of PvP-Gating the feature.

There are more than two possible outcomes - Open only; weighted merits and pan-modal with no weighting. We'll see which Frontier pick.
 
That's as may be - however those two stirrings of the player-base have, as yet come to nought.

Those tweaks again: changing trigger values by x 10 (because forting was too quick), overhead curve change (so past a certain point overheads are flat) and consolidation (an almost working anti 5C measure, along with making PP map values make sense). Whatever they do, they need to so something, as well as actually reach out to PP groups to keep them alive.

You're right, we don't know - however I suspect that Frontier chose not to ignore the persistent demands for Open only Powerplay when preparing the list of proposals for the first Flash Topic.

They looked at what might work, like anyone looking for a solution.

Doom would be shutting up shop - that hasn't happened to either the game or Powerplay.

I suspect deep down removing Powerplay is too much work for FD, so they choose to ignore it. I want to believe otherwise, but my years in the feature tell me otherwise.

Frontier set the challenge posed by NPCs - for all players, not just those with access to Engineers or those who prefer PvP..

OK, so you have NPCs that can't interdict you, are small (not even A grade) and you think that is an effective counter to doing regular hauling? You are then admitting that Solo is easier, while in Open (which to some the chance of coming across a player and /or NPC) has a higher chance of failure? Why would you design a feature that does not recognize the threat you put yourself in? You might as well take away open and simply keep Powerplay a grind battle.

Not really - Will posted that they are considering some of the proposals from Sandro's first Flash Topic.

How often does will actually highlight Powerplay, its groups, its player made lore etc? I mean actually play it, and chat to leaders etc? Currently FD Xtra content and livestreams are Will jumping endlessly after exploring.

PvP-gating is not "fixing" - it is removing content from some players and giving it to other players - when all players bought the content in the base game.

Well, it depends on your point of view. You are not losing anything- its not like David Braben is going around and deleting the Powerplay feature- its still there. Its just you don't choose to play it. And if Open does generate new and exciting gameplay (like I've described in detail) that brings in more players than it might lose, that is fixing.
 
Why I did quit powerplay:
  • rank decay
  • lousy interface, hard to see who is responsible for undermining, therefore hard to plan appropriate reactions
  • 30 minute ticks / expensive fortifiying
  • stagnating map, nothing left to conquer, 5C being the last resort of change and 5C being annoying (or module-shoppers who don't give damn about the power)
  • lack of ingame means to communicate power internally (might be better with squadrons now)
  • missing mechanic for the death of a power and missing mechanic to inject fresh powers
  • repetitive core tasks: endless CZ / undermining and endless ABA;
Why I have played powerplay the first place:
  • a meta game, giving me a reason to play the BGS
  • a meta game, giving me a reason to play group vs group
  • having a visible pledge
  • nice community
  • shiny territorial map
Basically core powerplay is something to endure, the reward is the metagame giving some reason to play BGS and group vs group.

Why open only, or why not?
In reality I don't care. I can play in open if I want and I never did take powerplay that serious to be overly upset by players taking advantage of private groups, playing min-max "for the win" strategy - chosing best of all worlds: playing PG in wings together versus the environment whilst being save from hostile PvP. Ok, maybe I got a bit salty about this now and then...

edit: ergo, I just would forbid PrivateGroups for powerplay :p - I am ok with players playing solo. But if people want to have the adavantage of playing together in a wing they should go open. But I know... all modes equal...

edit edit: sorry for all the edits.
 
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If the "lifeless grind in Solo" is so popular (and Frontier have the stats) - why would it be removed?

Next time I'll add an /s to make it easy. Powerplay is so popular because of its engaging hauling mechanics which are rich with gameplay. Players hate the monotony, hence why so few play it.

Frontier put forward a series of proposals in the Flash Topic - and they gathered feedback. Like it or not, the feedback was not unanimously in favour of PvP-Gating the feature.

Well, if that data is valid now count the responses. And then look at other related polls and see. A strong majority did firmly want it. If 35% hated it, and 65% like it, thats pretty good. If 75% want change (either weighted or open only) thats quite a strong response as well.

There are more than two possible outcomes - Open only; weighted merits and pan-modal with no weighting. We'll see which Frontier pick.

Pan modal with no weighting simply makes for more blind grinding, thanks to the ultra UM clause. It means you'll see more grind races that isolate players rather than bring them together in any meaningful way.
 
Player driven Powerplay has never (bar one Utopian Galnet story right at the start that was directly talking about an expansion) ever changed the ED 'story'. FD got burnt with that story I mentioned as it confused the playerbase, so they never did it again.

If you don't play Powerplay at all, what difference does it make what mode its played in? The effects are still the same.

Just because powerplay hasn't had much of an effect on the story, doesn't mean it never will. If Winters were to massively overtake Hudson in terms of galactic influence, I wouldn't be surprised if Hudson would lose the next election. Likewise, if one of the Imperial powers were to lay claim to Sol itself, I wouldn't expect that to go unnoticed by FD's writers. Regardless of what Galnet might say, the interplay between the minor powers, powers and superpowers is an integral part of Elite's setting and story.

I don't much care for powerplay in its current implementation as it's just reskinned copy+paste gameplay from other parts of the game. Every activity is basically either trading or bounty hunting by another name. The only reason why I ever dabble in powerplay is for the effects it has on the game, whether it is me supporting the Federal Powers, subtly altering the markets in systems or just to unlock modules - I play it for results, both lore and mechanical, not for the extra "gameplay" it offers. To me, powerplay is just another layer of the BGS, albeit one with a sign-up page rather than simply accounting for all that I do. If the results became obtainable by other means, then I wouldn't care for Powerplay at all and PvPers will be free to use it as their battleground for their private discord channels, subreddits and incessant pew-pew.

And therein lies the real issue with Powerplay - it's not about open vs full availability, it's about the barebones and minimalist mechanics behind it that frustrate and bore people, causing them to seek direct confrontation with other players rather than focusing on the game itself. All the "problems" suggested in this thread are problems with the implementation of PP and arguably even general problems that are pandemic across all of ED, not problems with solo and private players having access to the PP subgame. Healy beams infinitely farming while afk? That's a problem in regular gameplay, not just powerplay. Bots running endless merit runs? Even with open-only PP they'll still be there ruining the rest of the game with their automated trading. Not being able to directly pew-pew the people you don't like? Direct pew-pew was always meant to be one of many possible solutions, the problem is that the game is lacking alternatives to interfere indirectly with players.
 
Why I did quit powerplay:
  • rank decay
  • lousy interface, hard to see who is responsible for undermining, therefore hard to plan appropriate reactions
  • 30 minute ticks / expensive fortifiying
  • stagnating map, nothing left to conquer, 5C being the last resort of change and 5C being annoying (or module-shoppers who don't give damn about the power)
  • lack of ingame means to communicate power internally (might be better with squadrons now)
  • missing mechanic for the death of a power and missing mechanic to inject fresh powers
  • repetitive core tasks: endless CZ / undermining and endless ABA;
Why I have played powerplay the first place:
  • a meta game, giving me a reason to play the BGS
  • a meta game, giving me a reason to play group vs group
  • having a visible pledge
  • nice community
  • shiny territorial map
Basically core powerplay is something to endure, the reward is the metagame giving some reason to play BGS and group vs group.

Why open only, or why not?
In reality I don't care. I can play in open if I want and I never did take powerplay that serious to be overly upset by players taking advantage of private groups, playing min-max "for the win" strategy - chosing best of all worlds: playing PG in wings together versus the environment whilst being save from hostile PvP. Ok, maybe I got a bit salty about this now and then...

edit: ergo, I just would forbid PrivateGroups for powerplay :p - I am ok with players playing solo. But if people want to have the adavantage of playing together in a wing they should go open. But I know... all modes equal...

edit edit: sorry for all the edits.

That's an interesting take on it, just barring PG. Think its the first time i've seen that particular suggestion.
 
Just because powerplay hasn't had much of an effect on the story, doesn't mean it never will. If Winters were to massively overtake Hudson in terms of galactic influence, I wouldn't be surprised if Hudson would lose the next election. Likewise, if one of the Imperial powers were to lay claim to Sol itself, I wouldn't expect that to go unnoticed by FD's writers. Regardless of what Galnet might say, the interplay between the minor powers, powers and superpowers is an integral part of Elite's setting and story.

Trust me, Powerplay will never have an effect. The reason? Because it conflicts with FDs story, or the direction they want. Power leaders will feature just as they had some extra lore for the codex. But for anything else? Nope. Go and ask the Alliance who have moved heaven and earth how much all that featured in Galnet.

I don't much care for powerplay in its current implementation as it's just reskinned copy+paste gameplay from other parts of the game. Every activity is basically either trading or bounty hunting by another name.

Exactly right.

The only reason why I ever dabble in powerplay is for the effects it has on the game, whether it is me supporting the Federal Powers, subtly altering the markets in systems or just to unlock modules - I play it for results, both lore and mechanical, not for the extra "gameplay" it offers. To me, powerplay is just another layer of the BGS, albeit one with a sign-up page rather than simply accounting for all that I do. If the results became obtainable by other means, then I wouldn't care for Powerplay at all and PvPers will be free to use it as their battleground for their private discord channels, subreddits and incessant pew-pew.

Most of it would be if you are after modules, or work on the BGS.

And therein lies the real issue with Powerplay - it's not about open vs full availability, it's about the barebones and minimalist mechanics behind it that frustrate and bore people, causing them to seek direct confrontation with other players rather than focusing on the game itself.

Powerplay is 100% player driven, in that players do basic tasks. What you are alluding to is the BGS, where any action (well mainly to a point) counts positively to your cause.

All the "problems" suggested in this thread are problems with the implementation of PP and arguably even general problems that are pandemic across all of ED, not problems with solo and private players having access to the PP subgame.
Healy beams infinitely farming while afk? That's a problem in regular gameplay, not just powerplay.

But in combination break Powerplay combat expansion wise, and because PP uses 'old' CZs and not new ones. Now, if FD used the new ones and gave merits according to difficulty (i.e. low intensity 10 merits a kill, medium 20 and high 30) then we are getting somewhere.

Bots running endless merit runs? Even with open-only PP they'll still be there ruining the rest of the game with their automated trading.

But unless they are fiddling about, automated runs all go to the same place, over and over since its all inbound (in an Open only context).

Not being able to directly pew-pew the people you don't like? Direct pew-pew was always meant to be one of many possible solutions, the problem is that the game is lacking alternatives to interfere indirectly with players.

Its the exact opposite- the only way right now to compete is to grind, you can't do anything else. 'Pewpew' gives you ways to slow the opposition, and create some dynamism. Along with the mega UM mechanic in open it would generate some fun hot-spots rather than watch a bar slowly fill up.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Those tweaks again: changing trigger values by x 10 (because forting was too quick), overhead curve change (so past a certain point overheads are flat) and consolidation (an almost working anti 5C measure, along with making PP map values make sense). Whatever they do, they need to so something, as well as actually reach out to PP groups to keep them alive.
I meant "with regard to weighted or Open only" - should have made that clearer.
They looked at what might work, like anyone looking for a solution.
If they were sure that it would work then they would just have done it, not sought feedback.
I suspect deep down removing Powerplay is too much work for FD, so they choose to ignore it. I want to believe otherwise, but my years in the feature tell me otherwise.
Probably.
OK, so you have NPCs that can't interdict you, are small (not even A grade) and you think that is an effective counter to doing regular hauling? You are then admitting that Solo is easier, while in Open (which to some the chance of coming across a player and /or NPC) has a higher chance of failure? Why would you design a feature that does not recognize the threat you put yourself in? You might as well take away open and simply keep Powerplay a grind battle.
Take away Open? An interesting concept. (/s) It would end the "Make [insert feature here] Open only!!" demands though.
How often does will actually highlight Powerplay, its groups, its player made lore etc? I mean actually play it, and chat to leaders etc? Currently FD Xtra content and livestreams are Will jumping endlessly after exploring.
I expect that Powerplay is in the "until we have something to say, we'll say nothing" zone at the moment.

Players can make all of the lore they want - it's still Frontier's feature.
Well, it depends on your point of view. You are not losing anything- its not like David Braben is going around and deleting the Powerplay feature- its still there. Its just you don't choose to play it. And if Open does generate new and exciting gameplay (like I've described in detail) that brings in more players than it might lose, that is fixing.
It does depend on one's point of view - and retrospectively PvP-Gating existing pan-modal content in a game sold to all as not requiring PvP is effectively removing it from players who can't or choose not to play in Open.

Quite an "if" in the last part.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Next time I'll add an /s to make it easy. Powerplay is so popular because of its engaging hauling mechanics which are rich with gameplay. Players hate the monotony, hence why so few play it.
Do, please - tone is notoriously bad at coming across in text form.
Well, if that data is valid now count the responses. And then look at other related polls and see. A strong majority did firmly want it. If 35% hated it, and 65% like it, thats pretty good. If 75% want change (either weighted or open only) thats quite a strong response as well.
Easiest just to poll the whole player-base - that way they know that only players can vote.
Pan modal with no weighting simply makes for more blind grinding, thanks to the ultra UM clause. It means you'll see more grind races that isolate players rather than bring them together in any meaningful way.
That's as may be - however it remains an option.
 
Trust me, Powerplay will never have an effect. The reason? Because it conflicts with FDs story, or the direction they want. Power leaders will feature just as they had some extra lore for the codex. But for anything else? Nope. Go and ask the Alliance who have moved heaven and earth how much all that featured in Galnet.

Powerplay is 100% player driven, in that players do basic tasks. What you are alluding to is the BGS, where any action (well mainly to a point) counts positively to your cause.

But in combination break Powerplay combat expansion wise, and because PP uses 'old' CZs and not new ones. Now, if FD used the new ones and gave merits according to difficulty (i.e. low intensity 10 merits a kill, medium 20 and high 30) then we are getting somewhere. But unless they are fiddling about, automated runs all go to the same place, over and over since its all inbound (in an Open only context).

Its the exact opposite- the only way right now to compete is to grind, you can't do anything else. 'Pewpew' gives you ways to slow the opposition, and create some dynamism. Along with the mega UM mechanic in open it would generate some fun hot-spots rather than watch a bar slowly fill up.

The Alliance is featuring far more in the game's lore than it ever has, they are now building their own unified navy, they are playing a major supporting role in the Thargoid conflict and they are even being treated as a 3rd superpower by the other two rather than just a rabble of rebels and terrorists like they used to be. Now, perhaps FD were always intending to make them a more prominent feature, but it is also somewhat possible that it is the Alliance's steady increase in power and influence that has lead the writers to involve them more in the general events; it would have been pretty easy to alter Aegis to simply be a Federation-Empire joint effort and ignore the Alliance, as a simple example.

The BGS likewise is entirely player driven as far as we can see, with the possible exception of factions steadily decaying down to famine without any player activity. Literally the only differences are that there's a different set of behind the scenes mechanics and PP requires players to sign up rather than just supporting whatever power takes their fancy at a given moment.

You say that these combinations of issues break powerplay, but you miss out the more serious issue - they are breaking the entire game. Fix these issues and port whatever fixes there are across to PP and we will see improvements. Trying to rework powerplay to get around these issues is just masking the real problems rather than actually fixing things. You even pointed out that the PP CZs use the outdated mechanics - then update those mechanics to the standards of the rest of the game! Trying to use other players to fill serious gaps in design is not a solution, adding in proper in-depth mechanics that promote mastery and player agency are.

You point out that pew-pew is the only lateral-thinking way of countering enemy traders - guess what? That's a symptom of a basic system that doesn't allow for any lateral thinking and is a problem in its own right. At least the BGS has the option of trying to force the system into lockdown, but I'd argue that is still far too minimalist. Even just a basic set of mechanics where local NPCs attempt to follow trends instigated by players would be a great start - so if a group of players begun mass delivery of merits to a system then it would be alluded to to in all instances in all modes with a sudden increase in freighters of the appropriate power making deliveries, players then engaging these freighters successfully would then cause an increase in powerplay enforcer NPCs to begin hunting down any players that dare to attempt to deliver merits to the system, which would then be reduced in frequency by players hunting down said enforcers successfully. That's just a simple example, but one that brings together a whole set of different methods to intervene without resorting to direct PvP pew pew. Further mechanics could then be introduced, such as resupplying local control systems with the appropriate commodities to reinforce local PP enforcement, or driving enemy supply systems into bust or lockdown states to starve their own war efforts. The problem is that everything is to disconnected and isolated, rather than everything being woven into a tapestry of different interlocking mechanisms that all affect each other.
 
The Alliance is featuring far more in the game's lore than it ever has, they are now building their own unified navy, they are playing a major supporting role in the Thargoid conflict and they are even being treated as a 3rd superpower by the other two rather than just a rabble of rebels and terrorists like they used to be. Now, perhaps FD were always intending to make them a more prominent feature, but it is also somewhat possible that it is the Alliance's steady increase in power and influence that has lead the writers to involve them more in the general events; it would have been pretty easy to alter Aegis to simply be a Federation-Empire joint effort and ignore the Alliance, as a simple example.

And none of that is down to Powerplay, simply as Mahon!= the Alliance.

The BGS likewise is entirely player driven as far as we can see, with the possible exception of factions steadily decaying down to famine without any player activity. Literally the only differences are that there's a different set of behind the scenes mechanics and PP requires players to sign up rather than just supporting whatever power takes their fancy at a given moment.

Although the ultimate outcomes are the same (retreat, expansion etc) the BGS is far better at it, simply as missions, trade, murder etc count towards it.

You say that these combinations of issues break powerplay, but you miss out the more serious issue - they are breaking the entire game.

Individually, they don't, not for the whole game. PG on its own does not break the game. Heal beams on their own are a problem, I admit. PP having old style CZs is not breaking the whole game. Shield balance is a game wide issue. Not all of those even feature in the wider game, but in unison in Powerplay they break combat expansions. Does AFK turreboats work in the wider game? No they don't, because the new CZs are finite, meaning you can't chug ships all day unlike Powerplay.

Fix these issues and port whatever fixes there are across to PP and we will see improvements.

Fix heal beams, remove PG or change CZ styles in Powerplay- any one will break the chain.

Trying to rework powerplay to get around these issues is just masking the real problems rather than actually fixing things. You even pointed out that the PP CZs use the outdated mechanics - then update those mechanics to the standards of the rest of the game! Trying to use other players to fill serious gaps in design is not a solution, adding in proper in-depth mechanics that promote mastery and player agency are.

Thats what I've been trying to get FD to do since the new changes. It seems FD are deaf to feedback with Powerplay. But that still does not address the rubbish PP NPCs who hardly ever interdict you, or can't interdict you because they have no interdictor. PP NPCs should be much more aggressive, but according to some here thats not allowed because it might be 'unfair'. I want PP NPCs to give a challenge that actually can affect Powerplay actions- but then, does that in itself create an imbalance, because one person might say they have seen more while others less?

You point out that pew-pew is the only lateral-thinking way of countering enemy traders - guess what? That's a symptom of a basic system that doesn't allow for any lateral thinking and is a problem in its own right.

Regular powerplay: you grind race by shooting or hauling.

Open Powerplay (in theory) you have the same from above, but can directly interact and slow enemies. Prep races in the same system? Intercept and destroy rival ships, protect your own. Mega UM? Protect the haulers / target them while fending off intruders. If you take time to read the proposal at least 3 points are built around Open in this way.

At least the BGS has the option of trying to force the system into lockdown, but I'd argue that is still far too minimalist.

The anaologue in PP is UM broadly.

Even just a basic set of mechanics where local NPCs attempt to follow trends instigated by players would be a great start - so if a group of players begun mass delivery of merits to a system then it would be alluded to to in all instances in all modes with a sudden increase in freighters of the appropriate power making deliveries, players then engaging these freighters successfully would then cause an increase in powerplay enforcer NPCs to begin hunting down any players that dare to attempt to deliver merits to the system, which would then be reduced in frequency by players hunting down said enforcers successfully.

Since the BGS can't even do basics like changing populations, plus the hidden nature of the BGS itself, I personally don't think it would work. These changes would be once every BGS tick, plus you get the 'I don't want to be shot' squad saying its too hard. You also have limits as to how many NPC types spawn at once, meaning the obvious route would be PP USS which is RNG, another favorite.

Its a lovely idea though, but it relies on FD pretty much adding a whole new BGS on top of the BGS. The proposal amounts to six formula changes and a few menu tweaks. Admittedly Open brings the issue of the block tool, but since it benefits the whole game having it tweaked thats a bonus.

That's just a simple example, but one that brings together a whole set of different methods to intervene without resorting to direct PvP pew pew. Further mechanics could then be introduced, such as resupplying local control systems with the appropriate commodities to reinforce local PP enforcement, or driving enemy supply systems into bust or lockdown states to starve their own war efforts. The problem is that everything is to disconnected and isolated, rather than everything being woven into a tapestry of different interlocking mechanisms that all affect each other.

And why would FD essentially duplicate the BGS? For its faults, if you look at the objectives in PP they are suited to open- singular objectives, easy recognition of pledges etc. But again, I'm all in if FD are going to top to toe overhaul the lot and do it properly.
 
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Ultimately, whether PP has an effect on the Story is moot what is not is that it has an effect on the single shared universe state. Further more, PP is predominantly a PvE activity and while some may choose to try and use it as an excuse to engage in PvP they seem to not accept that PvP is optional in ED as a whole.

The overall approach to PP is PvE in nature and should remain that way - PvP being an optional and incidental part of main environment gameplay as a whole.

The long and the short of it is that if people in general want more PvP oriented gameplay in the main environment they should be looking at ways of "adding relevant mechanics" rather than trying to get existing gameplay modified to suit them and effectively try to force other people to engage in PvP when enjoying existing base content. Myself and @RamirezKurita have put forward counter proposals to this end and those ideas could be built on.
 
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Ultimately, whether PP has an effect on the Story is moot what is not is that it has an effect on the single shared universe state.

Powerplays only effects on the galaxy is via the gov types it imposes on bubbles and minor BGS quirks. Beyond that, its practically its own layer. The proposal would cut that down by a factor of 15 to just capitals and control systems- in effect making Powerplay powers the same size as large PMF BGS factions (in number of systems).

Further more, PP is predominantly a PvE activity and while some may choose to try and use it as an excuse to engage in PvP they seem to not accept that PvP is optional in ED as a whole.

It is currently. However that PvE is grind collecting or grind hauling. You are arguing to keep the grind and nothing else because the default state thats most efficient is solo and PG (with its ineffectual NPCs). Open is more chaotic and unpredictable, which in turn breaks the grind enough to make it interesting- no haul is 100% safe, and UM / expansions / prep are more dangerous (and again not 100% guaranteed like it is in solo or PG).

The overall approach to PP is PvE in nature and should remain that way - PvP being an optional and incidental part of main environment gameplay as a whole.

PvE in Powerplay is the same 2 jobs that promote grindy gaming, because the NPCs are there to be farmed and can't oppose you and affect the outcome (because that would be unfair when Powerplay is 100% player driven, and yet subject to BGS RNG). So the choice is have every mode the same, which exerts downward pressure for everyone to grind efficently, or you lock it to one mode and keep it there to make it even. This would either be solo (which would be fair, but incredibly dull) or open, which as I pointed out above and elsewhere have a greater potential to be dynamic and uncertain.

The long and the short of it is that if people in general want more PvP oriented gameplay in the main environment they should be looking at ways of "adding relevant mechanics" rather than trying to get existing gameplay modified to suit them and effectively try to force other people to engage in PvP when enjoying existing base content.

Well, its 'people' as in FD that are continually thinking adding relevant mechanics, just they want to do it as cheaply as possible since Powerplay has already burnt them once.

Myself and @RamirezKurita have put forward counter proposals to this end and those ideas could be built on.

Which are nice, but unworkable given the time FD are willing to put in. They would have to work around the BGS tick to work -so at best you might see one or two extra PP NPCs due to limited NPC spawns (to balance them with regular traffic numbers), and only see these marginal changes happen seven times a cycle. USS / CZs get around that but then we are into RNG territory, and that it makes everything look static.

The problem with Powerplay is that FD won't tell us when or if it will be developed again- the only definitive information we have from that is the Flash Topics, and they try to make it attractive without great cost attached- hence why its all maths changes with no new extras (or that 'meaty' items like PP missions are vague). The option with most potential from that topic is Open, with about 5 points for 5C- it makes players much more important.

If Open is not enacted, the proposal will do the following without it:

Powers will vote drop unprofitables and gain a wad of CC (making them turmoil proof- i.e. stasis)
Powers will still consolidate (i.e. stasis)
Mega UM grinding will make fortification a CG (because as long as an attacker attacks they have to fortify). This is without the Open payoff of (potentially) fighting your enemy directly).
Taking current fort patterns, unless a Power is lazy or does not scout (and is sniped) mega UM won't make others turmoil, leading to stasis (as it is now).

This does not even take into account this:

5C will swap to consoles (Who have unlimited numbers of commanders because they can make accounts on the fly) and vote back in the systems dropped in the first point. Should FD lock the game to one commander per console? Is that taking away content too, even though it breaks the feature? A PC owner at least has to buy another commander.

For what Open can do check my earlier posts.

There is also a time dimension, because many of the organised groups that run Powerplay are walking away, meaning the massive co-ordinated battles and strategies that make Powerplay so interesting will probably be a thing of the past. FD don't really get that urgency- if they are going to do this proposal or have something totally different they need to do it soon.
 
..unless a Power is lazy or does not scout (and is sniped)..
... 'tis an outrage!.. :p
Powerplay player numbers dwindle for everyone, and 5c/bot/exploit effects paper over the merit-gap. Meanwhile, when a tiny core of legit people are doing twice the work to maintain viability, "lazy" isnt a word id use to describe them.
2 years of stagnation, with no concerted attacks in that time, & no completed expansions, leads a tired playerbase to carelessness. Some will surely blame the "so called, self proclaimed leaders" of the faction for their innaction, but that is itself lazy. We jump on any opportunities which provide any incentives whatsoever beyond simply more grind for no gain, but at every turn face a wall of hidden grind beyond any possibility of competition.

So, to those who oppose the Flash Topic changes, & who oppose Powerplay in OpenOnly, THAT is the day to day reality of 'all modes are equal'. Its easy to imagine you hold an egalitarian moral high-ground when you ignore or are unaware of the consequences, and you arent the ones put to work by your ideals to prop-up the fallacy.

Ironically, that is what I do. I prop up your fantasies, by the many hours I put in every week to avoid one more power which ive invested so much time & endeavour in from becoming a wasteland.
 
... 'tis an outrage!.. :p
Powerplay player numbers dwindle for everyone, and 5c/bot/exploit effects paper over the merit-gap. Meanwhile, when a tiny core of legit people are doing twice the work to maintain viability, "lazy" isnt a word id use to describe them.

Fair point :D Although I meant it in a "lacked vigialnce at the time" rather than attack on players, because thats not true. The people that engage in PP to run Discords, diplomacy and find time to play are the ones that keep it alive and work incredibly hard.

2 years of stagnation, with no concerted attacks in that time, & no completed expansions, leads a tired playerbase to carelessness. Some will surely blame the "so called, self proclaimed leaders" of the faction for their innaction, but that is itself lazy. We jump on any opportunities which provide any incentives whatsoever beyond simply more grind for no gain, but at every turn face a wall of hidden grind beyond any possibility of competition.

Sadly is the truth.

So, to those who oppose the Flash Topic changes, & who oppose Powerplay in OpenOnly, THAT is the day to day reality of 'all modes are equal'. Its easy to imagine you hold an egalitarian moral high-ground when you ignore or are unaware of the consequences, and you arent the ones put to work by your ideals to prop-up the fallacy.

But we are Luddites who not know of the Lamb and The Trinity™.

Ironically, that is what I do. I prop up your fantasies, by the many hours I put in every week to avoid one more power which ive invested so much time & endeavour in from becoming a wasteland.

And this is what I mean about time constraint- the people who step up and co-ordinate, keep things fun are the ones that eventually will leave (or have left) because FD won't act, and the feature is held hostage by a tenet that is tearing it apart. Although I'm now Kumo, I would feel sad inside if Utopia went the way of Torval. Zaan would cry too, if he had tear ducts, or emotions to express (other than cold rage).
 
Powerplay player numbers dwindle for everyone, and 5c/bot/exploit effects paper over the merit-gap. Meanwhile, when a tiny core of legit people are doing twice the work to maintain viability, "lazy" isnt a word id use to describe them.

Well, at least the bots operating in PG/solo are helping the tiny core and reducing the amount of work they need to do :p
 
Powerplays only effects on the galaxy is via the gov types it imposes on bubbles and minor BGS quirks.
It does not matter what the "direct" effects are there is still an effect, you can try to dismiss them as minor quirks but they are not.

Well, its 'people' as in FD that are continually thinking adding relevant mechanics, just they want to do it as cheaply as possible since Powerplay has already burnt them once.
Not really - FD have stated that they would like more people to play in Open BUT one of the fundamental insurmountable and ultimately unresolvable hurdles to this is the PvP behaviours of at least some. Ultimately, it is not FD that keep raising the Open v. PG/Solo but certain members of the PvP community in essence, and they have done this in some shape or form long before PP was a thing.

Like it or not, like the underlying mechanics or not, PP is still predominantly PvE activity and if Solo/PG-only players enjoy the current gameplay as-is (or would like it improved in some universal way) then they should still have access to it and not have their efforts belittled as being done in some form of easy mode - not everyone in Solo/PG runs around in (IMO exploit ridden) god builds nor necessarily engages in botting/cheats/hacks.

Some might actually take some form of pleasure in the (alleged) simplicity and repetitiveness of the current PP mechanics (what is or is not fun is a highly subjective thing) but no-reasonable person should object to additive mechanics that improve on the variety of gameplay providing it has no direct effect on their preferred gameplay choices and it's impact on the universe state. Open Only or Open Biased would NOT be such a change and as-such should be finally buried as potential concepts by FD IMO.

Ultimately, if the only counter to adding new mechanics is about cost and developer time then PvPers in general should learn to accept the status-quo.
 
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It does not matter what the "direct" effects are there is still an effect, you can try to dismiss them as minor quirks but they are not.

Which for many is hardly felt at all considering cerdits flow all over, and that the main credit drivers are mission and void opal mining.

Not really - FD have stated that they would like more people to play in Open BUT one of the fundamental insurmountable and ultimately unresolvable hurdles to this is the PvP behaviours of at least some. Ultimately, it is not FD that keep raising the Open v. PG/Solo but certain members of the PvP community in essence, and they have done this in some shape or form long before PP was a thing.

So how do you know these players will ruin this idea? You know, in a mode thats actually about combat, or avoiding combat enough to escape? Surely if FD think its about consensual combat (because you opt in) this is exactly what is needed?

Like it or not, like the underlying mechanics or not, PP is still predominantly PvE activity and if Solo/PG-only players enjoy the current gameplay as-is (or would like it improved in some universal way) then they should still have access to it and not have their efforts belittled as being done in some form of easy mode - not everyone in Solo/PG runs around in (IMO exploit ridden) god builds nor necessarily engages in botting/cheats/hacks.

If PP NPCs can't stop you, or deter you, what point is there to playing in that mode? That is the definition of easy- you don't need a god build if no NPC goes near you. Then it becomes how much you can carry and how fast you can do it- a grindy CG in all but name...one dimensional and another pointless duplication of weak gameplay.

Some might actually take some form of pleasure in the (alleged) simplicity and repetitiveness of the current PP mechanics (what is or is not fun is a highly subjective thing)

But not enough judging by the numbers playign the feature, hence why the need for radical change. If PP was wildly popular I'd agree with you- but the numbers don't lie, otherwise we would not be here.

but no-reasonable person should object to additive mechanics that improve on the variety of gameplay providing it has no direct effect on their preferred gameplay choices and it's impact on the universe state. Open Only or Open Biased would NOT be such a change and as-such should be finally buried as potential concepts by FD IMO.

And yet it keeps coming back because it does have merit.

Ultimately, if the only counter to adding new mechanics is about cost and developer time then PvPers in general should learn to accept the status-quo.

So, you would rather let Powerplay die on principle than at least try something that has potential?
 
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