My issue with the sudden increase in cheaters/hackers...

[Phazon Xenomorph]

While there are other threads and youtube videos listing cheaters, slot-blockers, and videos showing what the cheats do... my issue is this... the infinite range cheaters...

Apparently from a Youtuber who covered about the cheating issue being rampant with Frontier seemingly doing nothing to stop them (Despite claims they are)... my issue is with those who have infinite jump range supposedly.

If that cheat is true that means they are able to go places we can never normally reach. There's some fringe system's I've bookmarked from looking at the Galmap that are currently not even remotely reachable even with a perfect stripped down Conda and Neutron boost (even though none are nearby anyways), I'd always assumed maybe they were dev test systems or just an oddity created with the Stellar Forge RNG. But if such a cheat exists, that means these players can get there and tag stuff, or even reach just barely currently unreachable (but likely reachable in the future) systems. Or even go past the permit locked systems from the Gnosis drama months ago and explore the area we as players wanted to have a legit way into...

What is going to be done about all the systems first tagged by cheaters in this manner? Are they (if caught regardless of when caught) gonna have their first claim tags erased so legit players can eventually claim these in the appropriate manner, or will they forever have the first claim tag of a dirty cheater?

I admit I've been playing a lot of other games lately due to lack of content in this game currently as I wait for the big 2020 update, but I certainly know I wouldn't want exploration ruined by these cheaters just jumping from the bubble to instantly reach anywhere they want and stealing all the good stuff from legit players. So what will you do Frontier about this?

 

[dxm55]

I think it's been mentioned somewhere that jump range cheats are the easiest to catch and ban because the server logs activities and can flag or detect jumps with ludicrous distances. Or at least someone looking at logs can.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

If you can't get there under any means, then who cares if someone else does?

Seriously, think about this - here is a place no one can go, yet someone manages to by some illicit means. Does this prevent you from enjoying the game? Does this prohibit you from going to all the places you can get to legitimately?

If this is the sort of thing you're loosing sleep over, you've got a "You Problem". If you're that bothered by someone else having something you don't, you have a "You Problem".

Therapy is highly suggested in this case. All this worrying about what other people do... I just don't get it.

 

[Schmack]

I think it's been mentioned somewhere that jump range cheats are the easiest to catch and ban because the server logs activities and can flag or detect jumps with ludicrous distances. Or at least someone looking at logs can.

Jump range and fuel hacks should be easy to detect. Perhaps dropping out of SC 10 seconds after entering the system... and being at Hutton Orbital.

Otherwise, the engineering differences makes even visual detection difficult. I've lost count (never started counting actually) of the number of times here someone has called cheater only to be told to git gud. Now that cheating is confirmed, the problem is more about perception of PvP and open play than it is about the actual effects of the cheat on the game.

Every single multiplayer game I've ever played online has cheaters, every one. Some games have them so badly that you cannot even play the game because cheaters are raining fire down upon the entire group. Even stupid games like fishing and hunting have leaderboards dominated by cheaters. No one does anything as long as people continue to buy stuff.

 

[Schmack]

If you can't get there under any means, then who cares if someone else does?

Seriously, think about this - here is a place no one can go, yet someone manages to by some illicit means. Does this prevent you from enjoying the game? Does this prohibit you from going to all the places you can get to legitimately?

If this is the sort of thing you're loosing sleep over, you've got a "You Problem". If you're that bothered by someone else having something you don't, you have a "You Problem".

Therapy is highly suggested in this case. All this worrying about what other people do... I just don't get it.

This is a game that has a shared playground. When we all pay for the game, and yet we don't have equal access or someone laid turds in the sand box before we got there, or the area is supposed to be pristine and we should be first discoverers and we aren't because someone cheated and soiled that experience, yes it should absolutely tick people off. If you don't get ticked off about losing your content to hackers, that's your prerogative, but they have every right to be.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Going to places where nobody can go with infinte range jumps is a great way to get caught. If FD suspects someone then that is pure evidence that they cheated. You'd have to be a really dumb cheater to go do that.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

This is a game that has a shared playground. When we all pay for the game, and yet we don't have equal access or someone laid turds in the sand box before we got there, or the area is supposed to be pristine and we should be first discoverers and we aren't because someone cheated and soiled that experience, yes it should absolutely tick people off. If you don't get ticked off about losing your content to hackers, that's your prerogative, but they have every right to be.

There's content out there? I haven't found much content IN the bubble, let alone outside of it.

"Oh, it should have been pristine...", "Oh, I should have found this first..."

It doesn't change the game. Nothing anyone does can change the game. It's still fly-around-in-a-spaceship.

Legend has it that the first European to visit Mammoth Cave was either John Houchin or his brother Francis Houchin, in 1797. Does this mean I shouldn't visit there? Does this make it any less impressive to me to see for the first time? No, not at all.

The pyramids of Giza were constructed between 2589 and 2504 BC. Should I skip seeing these as well, because so many others already have? Will this make them any less a wonder to me? Again, no, not in the slightest.

Now, if I were to receive a check for actual cash in the mail for each of my Elite First Discoveries, then it would matter. I don't, so it doesn't. I've been to plenty of places no one else has, and I've been to plenty of places someone else has, and it doesn't change anything meaningful. Ten thousand people have passed through Sag A*, and I will too at some point, and it won't change the experience for me in any way.

 

[dxm55]

There's content out there? I haven't found much content IN the bubble, let alone outside of it.

"Oh, it should have been pristine...", "Oh, I should have found this first..."

It doesn't change the game. Nothing anyone does can change the game. It's still fly-around-in-a-spaceship.

Legend has it that the first European to visit Mammoth Cave was either John Houchin or his brother Francis Houchin, in 1797. Does this mean I shouldn't visit there? Does this make it any less impressive to me to see for the first time? No, not at all.

The pyramids of Giza were constructed between 2589 and 2504 BC. Should I skip seeing these as well, because so many others already have? Will this make them any less a wonder to me? Again, no, not in the slightest.

Now, if I were to receive a check for actual cash in the mail for each of my Elite First Discoveries, then it would matter. I don't, so it doesn't. I've been to plenty of places no one else has, and I've been to plenty of places someone else has, and it doesn't change anything meaningful. Ten thousand people have passed through Sag A*, and I will too at some point, and it won't change the experience for me in any way.

Well some people do want that "First discovered by....." tag on the system map to reflect their name on it.

I mean, it would kinda suck if Edmund Hillary reached the summit of Everest back in 29 May 1953, only to find a flag that said "David Rice was here".
Just because some one had a hax0r genetic jump drive built into their body....

 

[Morbad]

I haven't see the slightest hint that the prevalence of cheating or hacking has appreciably increased, just an increase in awareness of both the positive (increased vigilance and calling out of Frontier's dubious countermeasures) and negative (paranoia, unfounded hackusations, FUD, etc) sort.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Well some people do want that "First discovered by....." tag on the system map to reflect their name on it.

I mean, it would kinda suck if Edmund Hillary reached the summit of Everest back in 29 May 1953, only to find a flag that said "David Rice was here".
Just because some one had a hax0r genetic jump drive built into their body....

Or like when Christopher Colombus said "I have discovered a new world...", only to later be revealed that Lief Erikson beat him here by nearly a half a century before old Christopher was even born?

 

[dxm55]

Or like when Christopher Colombus said "I have discovered a new world...", only to later be revealed that Lief Erikson beat him here by nearly a half a century before old Christopher was even born?

Perhaps. But then again there are parts of the game galaxy where no one has traveled to before.

Just imagine, if you had an entire region unexplored. And right over there, at the edge of the galactic rim, lies a system which was already mapped by some dude who didn't have to go through the entire region leading to it.

 

[Alwayslate]

If you can't get there under any means, then who cares if someone else does?

Seriously, think about this - here is a place no one can go, yet someone manages to by some illicit means. Does this prevent you from enjoying the game? Does this prohibit you from going to all the places you can get to legitimately?

If this is the sort of thing you're loosing sleep over, you've got a "You Problem". If you're that bothered by someone else having something you don't, you have a "You Problem".

Therapy is highly suggested in this case. All this worrying about what other people do... I just don't get it.

Soon we'll have nothing to care about at this rate.

Going to places where nobody can go with infinte range jumps is a great way to get caught. If FD suspects someone then that is pure evidence that they cheated. You'd have to be a really dumb cheater to go do that.

Months ago I reported a bug (and people who did it, as an exploiter) that allows you to carry universal catagraphics to return to a station upon ship destruction. Did FDev fix it or punished anyone? Not that I've seen it. FDev need to care first if they want to get someone "caught". Players catching them is wasted effort.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Months ago I reported a bug (and people who did it, as an exploiter) that allows you to carry universal catagraphics to return to a station upon ship destruction. Did FDev fix it or punished anyone? Not that I've seen it. FDev need to care first if they want to get someone "caught". Players catching them is wasted effort.

Man, there is a world of difference between bugs and cheats. People who exploit bugs don't always get slapped. All depends on how bad it is. Also sounds pretty low priority to me.

Cheats are tricker, FD not only need to shut down the current cheat but also look for ways to prevent similar cheats, otherwise there will be a new cheat out the day after FD fix it.

 

[Schmack]

There's content out there? I haven't found much content IN the bubble, let alone outside of it.

It is what you make it. I don't disagree with your sentiment, but for an explorer with all the badges and such, or even someone who spent a month jumping around pretending to be thousands of LY from inhabited space, after engineering their ship and getting all the 3rd party information and setups.. to find others are just one jumping to these sites, insta-scanning every body and one jumping back.. it has to make what they are doing seem a bit less than "stellar".

"Oh, it should have been pristine...", "Oh, I should have found this first..."

It doesn't change the game. Nothing anyone does can change the game. It's still fly-around-in-a-spaceship.

Sure, if you reduce it to absurdity then we are all just sitting in a chair moving keys and joysticks around.
To some here, it's more than that.

Legend has it that the first European to visit Mammoth Cave was either John Houchin or his brother Francis Houchin, in 1797. Does this mean I shouldn't visit there? Does this make it any less impressive to me to see for the first time? No, not at all.

If you're going there to be the first discoverer then yes, it does. Cave exploring doesn't have such a mechanic, but system exploring in the game does.

The pyramids of Giza were constructed between 2589 and 2504 BC. Should I skip seeing these as well, because so many others already have? Will this make them any less a wonder to me? Again, no, not in the slightest.

No one is saying it should bother you. You're saying it shouldn't bother them. They don't see the game the same as you. If it doesn't bother you that's fine. It doesn't bother me either, personally, but I certainly understand how it bothers others. I don't watch ice hockey, so someone cheating in the game doesn't bother me but I could understand if the league dealt harshly with it since it does an injustice to the game. Cheaters do an injustice to this game whether or not it bothers you personally.

Now, if I were to receive a check for actual cash in the mail for each of my Elite First Discoveries, then it would matter. I don't, so it doesn't. I've been to plenty of places no one else has, and I've been to plenty of places someone else has, and it doesn't change anything meaningful. Ten thousand people have passed through Sag A*, and I will too at some point, and it won't change the experience for me in any way.

It won't because you didn't set out to discover anything. If I was intentionally late to the party I'd not expect to have the best parking spot. If I was the 1st to arrive and someone put cones in several spots to reserve them for someone else, then that would be different.

So if you spent hours and hours on the CG and finished 5th behind 4 other people who had exponentially more production than you, and it turned out they were cheating, you'd be ok because it didn't change the game any, just the payout of not-even-real money, of which you could make exponentially more just by spending the same time void opal mining. Does that sound accurate?

 

[Alwayslate]

Man, there is a world of difference between bugs and cheats. People who exploit bugs don't always get slapped. All depends on how bad it is. Also sounds pretty low priority to me.

Cheats are tricker, FD not only need to shut down the current cheat but also look for ways to prevent similar cheats, otherwise there will be a new cheat out the day after FD fix it.

The problem is, they should deal with both. If fixing bugs is easier, then why do we still have bugs that exist for years? Because they don't care.

Even if they do care, they're probably too lazy or incompetent to fix it. I thought the same for cheaters, simply because according to those who contacted FDev and posted, FDev left that for half a year and did nothing.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The problem is, they should deal with both. Fixing bugs is way easier. Then why do we still have bugs that exist for years? Because they don't care.

Even if they do care, they're probably too lazy or incompetent to fix it. I thought the same for cheaters, simply because according to those who contacted FDev and posted said FDev left that for half a year and did nothing.

Ah, got it. So the devs don't care or are lazy or incompetent.

Of course, absoloutely 100% agree with you. The devs go into work every day, kick back, light up a cig, drink a beer or ten, then head home at lunchtime.

Seriously, if you are in the UK, go pay them a visit, go talk to them. Then see if you still have the same opinion.

 

[m0rl0ck]

I personally dont think either the devs or frontier are lazy or incompetent. FD management just has budgetary and time priorities. Elite dangerous just doesnt appear to be at the top of the list.

 

[Alwayslate]

Ah, got it. So the devs don't care or are lazy or incompetent.

Of course, absoloutely 100% agree with you. The devs go into work every day, kick back, light up a cig, drink a beer or ten, then head home at lunchtime.

Seriously, if you are in the UK, go pay them a visit, go talk to them. Then see if you still have the same opinion.

Too passionate to delay promised content, aren't they? Say that to those who've encounted bugs, I'm sure they'll agree with you.

I don't doubt their passion, or competence IRL. They just appeared to lack both.

 

[Stealthie]

If you can't get there under any means, then who cares if someone else does?

Seriously, think about this - here is a place no one can go, yet someone manages to by some illicit means. Does this prevent you from enjoying the game? Does this prohibit you from going to all the places you can get to legitimately?

If this is the sort of thing you're loosing sleep over, you've got a "You Problem". If you're that bothered by someone else having something you don't, you have a "You Problem".

Therapy is highly suggested in this case. All this worrying about what other people do... I just don't get it.

Suggesting people need therapy becaue they're concerned about cheating damaging a video game they enjoy is pretty low.

 

[Bug80]

If you can't get there under any means, then who cares if someone else does?

Seriously, think about this - here is a place no one can go, yet someone manages to by some illicit means. Does this prevent you from enjoying the game? Does this prohibit you from going to all the places you can get to legitimately?

If this is the sort of thing you're loosing sleep over, you've got a "You Problem". If you're that bothered by someone else having something you don't, you have a "You Problem".

Therapy is highly suggested in this case. All this worrying about what other people do... I just don't get it.

This is weird logic. First of all, systems that are not reachable now may be so in the future. Jump range has increased over the years.

Secondly, it is not something about not having something others don't, but about not being able to do what others do wich makes the game unfair. If you pay taxes but the other people in your street don't (because they're cheating) than of course that will upset you.