Bob Lighthouse
Banned
So there’s currently a Cmdr stuck in the slot, station defences having no affect, assumed he’s proving a point about cheats...
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Try the analogy with speeding (driving faster than the posted limit for a section of road) instead.
I'm asking for your opinion Bob. It seems you have a strong opinion on this topic, I'm offering you a soapbox.
Poppycock? Why not balderdash as well!
I'm not sure if it can be applied to all forms of civil disobendience. Would have to know which type you are thinking about. But generally speaking i think it applies. Or as my mum always said, two wrongs don't make a right.
What I am most definitely saying is you don't protest cheating by cheating.
Absolutely disagree, for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, it's not targeted at those responsible.
The players who this guy is inconveniencing can't do anything about cheating.
Sure, posting up the video might encourage FDev to do something about it but I'd hope that posting up videos of encounters with actual cheats would accomplish the same thing... without inconveniencing a bunch of people who just want to spend some time playing a video game.
Secondly, it's a course of action with limited scope.
I'm pretty sure there are people out there who've had equally or more game-breaking issues with ED but there's no way to protest those things in a similar way.
I couldn't play for 6 months, last year, because the poxy galmap caused CTDs.
I don't like the idea that FDev might rush to fix things which people can throw tantrums over while ignoring the stuff that people can't throw tantrums over.
If it was up to me, the reporting system would display a list of, say, the top 20 reported issues people are having with the game and they'd be fixed in order of prevalence, with FDev publishing weekly (if not more frequent) updates on how progress on those issues is proceeding.
Fix the problems that affect the largest number of players, not the ones that somebody throws a tantrum about on a live-stream.
Ok serious question for people who see this as proof that FD is not on the case.. what should they do differently in your opinion?
They could build an auto detection system for cheating, but that is very difficult in a p2p setup and will generate false alarms leading to innocent players being banned.
Or, they could update the code regularly to break trainers (they do that) and ban people who are caught cheating (they do that).
They could build an auto detection system for cheating, but that is very difficult in a p2p setup and will generate false alarms leading to innocent players being banned.
Or, they could update the code regularly to break trainers (they do that) and ban people who are caught cheating (they do that).
Dear God! With FD's programming record! Are you looking forward to being randomly banned? And it wouldn't get fixed for months!
This is a complete waste of time on everyone's part. Frontier will rightly never accept a cheating complaint just based on some random cmdrs say-so. Even if video evidence is provided, I've seen plenty of counter-examples with videos from both sides where it appears someone was cheating, but in reality they weren't. It was simply some network de-sync or other glitch. All comms is unreliable, and when enough comms is done, sooner or later, one day, something will fail. There is no avoiding that.
As for detecting the trainer, that's just an arms race between Frontier and the trainer developers. Frontier comes up with a way to detect a trainer - the trainer developers change their trainer so it can't be detected. Repeat ad infinitum. I've read about examples of trainer detection in other games resulting in false positives and the banning of innocent players. That would be the last thing Frontier would want. I think most people would consider banning an innocent player to be worse than not banning a cheater. IMO, Frontier are right to act on the cautious side.
In the same way there is no way to stop people acting like idiots in the game (seal clubbing, etc), there's no way to stop people acting like idiots outside the game (trainers/cheats).
Everyone should just chill. If you see a cheater, report them, provide what evidence you can and let Frontier sort them out. Block them in game. There's no silver bullet for this.
As for detecting the trainer, that's just an arms race between Frontier and the trainer developers. Frontier comes up with a way to detect a trainer - the trainer developers change their trainer so it can't be detected. Repeat ad infinitum. I've read about examples of trainer detection in other games resulting in false positives and the banning of innocent players. That would be the last thing Frontier would want. I think most people would consider banning an innocent player to be worse than not banning a cheater. IMO, Frontier are right to act on the cautious side.
In the same way there is no way to stop people acting like idiots in the game (seal clubbing, etc), there's no way to stop people acting like idiots outside the game (trainers/cheats).
Everyone should just chill. If you see a cheater, report them, provide what evidence you can and let Frontier sort them out. Block them in game. There's no silver bullet for this.
The issue comes from cheating (whatever the form it takes) being perceived in-game. Sometimes there are false positives. If the reporting of these cheaters (whether real or not) is apparently ignored (the player is still in the game, no follow up response after an investigation from FDev) then those who feel they are being affected by it will become more frustrated, and trust in 'the system' is eroded.
That erosion of trust eventually leads us to protests like this, which is harder to ignore.
You got to admire that person for spending the money on the acct just to highlight the problem. Personally i dont think i would care enough to do the same and if pvp were the only reason i played the game (as little as i do) or if pvp were a factor in my gameplay, i think i would just quit.
EDIT: If thats what it looks like i hope he gets a refund after the banning.
EDIT: If thats what it looks like i hope he gets a refund after the banning.
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Am I the only one who thinks this is a fairly good idea?
Worked with Healies4Feelies.. Kinda...
Worked with Healies4Feelies.. Kinda...
I'm sorry, but if we all decided to amplify our personal concerns this way there'd never be any usable game play.
There are ways to report cheaters. Cheating as a way to draw attention to cheating is really stupid.
Not the same thing at all. Pushing the envelope on design flaws isn't even remotely the same as scripting. If this kind of thing made any sense, then some group should pad block in every CG to prove a point about pad blocking, or they should combat log constantly in CGs while streaming to prove a point. For some reason the solution is to sit in a mail slot in open and block people so that your message is the loudest. It's just someone cutting in traffic to get their way. Stop pretending someone running a game memory script is heroic.
FDev didn't create the script. They don't control it. Causing their users grief because you have an agenda is no different than what the scripters are doing for the most part. "They should have put in a true offline mode, so I'm going to cheat and ruin their fun to prove a point" "Engineering is too grindy, too stupid, so I'm going to gank people and grief using this script to prove a point"...
Any agenda can be used. Just name one.
Actually it's exacty the same thing. Frontier's game design clearly allows the system to be exploited and thier lack of activity to deal with it (Which lets be honest here, probably is'nt that simple) is a design flaw, hence pushing this particular activity makes sense.
Yeah it sucks that some folk are getting annoyed by it, but you can't make an omlette, or in this case, prove a point, without cracking a few eggs.
How is scripting in a video game "civil disobedience"? If it is, why isn't it civil disobedience when the run of-the mill scripters do it? Do they just lack the heroic cause?
Saying it is doesn't make it so. If the game allows you to use healing beams and thus open fire inside the station, doing it isn't violating EULA. Scripting is violating EULA. "Allows" and "Disallows" means it's not the same thing. Having an anaconda that will jump 300LY with the right engineering and boosts isn't the same as having an anaconda that will jump 300 LY with a hack.
Same with hacks then. It sucks that some folks are getting annoyed by it but if they want to prove their 100 + individual points, they have to crack a few eggs. Why does person A's point matter more than person B's?
No, it's not.
Healing beams were an intentional piece of game-design implemented by FDev.
People suggested they were too powerful but FDev didn't seem interested in listening.
The "protest" was intended to demonstrate exactly how big the problem was.
The subject of the protest was created by FDev and it was within their power to modify it.
That isn't the case here.
I'm sure FDev would love to find a way to fix the cheating but it wasn't them that created the cheats and there's a good chance that plugging the vulnerability that allows it will take a substantial amount of effort so, in the mean-time, it doesn't really achieve much to re-state something FDev already know.
Anything to get some views I suppose.
Even though I did listen to him talking on the twitch I don't really know what the protester's motivations were. I could only try to imagine myself in his position. If the only reason I played Elite was for the PVP, and I found out that it was deeply flawed them I might consider not playing the game. And if I didn't want to play the game the fact I was going to be banned wouldn't really matter
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