So there’s currently a Cmdr stuck in the slot, station defences having no affect, assumed he’s proving a point about cheats...

[Slange Lands]

Someone needs to start their own YouTube channel called The Housewives of Elite Dangerous and feature the prima donnas of the game who seem to think their opinions are more important than everyone else's.

At least we would fly better than Fdev and not get killed as often....

slange
--- a 53 year old housewife who takes breaks from housework and baking cookies for the neighbors by practicing her rail aim fa off.

P.S Holy moly do I love railguns!!!!!!! Long range forever.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

I do have a wish on this. I hope FD and the protester take this opportunity to dialogue and work together. Clearly the protester has access to the tools, FD can't detect it, and they can run together through a set of scenarios so FD can see what they can see at their end. That is, pro-actively and productively work together to put an end to this.

As FD could have with others that have raised these issues before.

If this just turns into a shadow or permaban for the protester account, that would be a big missed chance. Do it, FD! Change your past behavior and work together with your community to fix these things.

 

[Schmack]

no, he means the legendary g1-g5 roll exploit. it was a bug exploit that allowed players running around stocked with god rolls (rolls equivalent of gaining the lottery at that time), that was duly communicated to them and that they left unaddressed for half a year, and finally solved by patching the bug and removing the modules.

so, nothing whatsoever to do with this, but knights gonna knight. don't respond unless they add something funny or worth replying, they're just trying to derail.

keep the noise focused!

Pretty sure he's not talking about that at all. I'm pretty sure he's talking about the same script used on the older version broke when the new version came out. I believe the script developers decided that they weren't going to continue supporting it and also due to some regulatory issues with their own Forum moved elsewhere to continue doing what they do with a select group of trusted individuals which seems to have grown over the past few months or so.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I do have a wish on this. I hope FD and the protester take this opportunity to dialogue and work together. Clearly the protester has access to the tools, FD can't detect it, and they can run together through a set of scenarios so FD can see what they can see at their end. That is, pro-actively and productively work together to put an end to this.

As FD could have with others that have raised these issues before.

If this just turns into a shadow or permaban for the protester account, that would be a big missed chance. Do it, FD! Change your past behavior and work together with your community to fix these things.

What is their to communicate beyond: here is the cheat tool, make it stop working. It is not like the 'protester' has super secret info; all he knows and has can be known and had by all in a few minutes. And FD has been pointed at it over and over and over for month after month after month. There is only one thing left now, and that is for FD to fix this. We cant help beyond reminding them it is still a problem and we haven't forgotten.

 

[znôrt]

Pretty sure he's not talking about that at all. I'm pretty sure he's talking about the same script used on the older version broke when the new version came out. I believe the script developers decided that they weren't going to continue supporting it and also due to some regulatory issues with their own Forum moved elsewhere to continue doing what they do with a select group of trusted individuals which seems to have grown over the past few months or so.

oh, then i must have misunderstood, but then he's also just wrong, beceause the cheats were never gone.

the whole concept of adapting to cheat (central to cheat protection) is incompatible with a schedule of one patch every few months. that would be just wishful thinking.

 

[bitstorm]

Watched the original video, it's hours long, anyone have a timestamp where the cheater is in that?

 

[znôrt]

Watched the original video, it's hours long, anyone have a timestamp where the cheater is in that?

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/433593962

 

[Teall]

And still no FDev reaction on this... Not a single word. Like if nothing happened.

 

[znôrt]

And still no FDev reaction on this... Not a single word. Like if nothing happened.

they just tweeted something!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1135486349946040322

Source: https://twitter.com/EliteDangerous/status/1135486349946040322


oh wait ...

 

[Schmack]

oh, then i must have misunderstood, but then he's also just wrong, beceause the cheats were never gone.

the whole concept of adapting to cheat (central to cheat protection) is incompatible with a schedule of one patch every few months. that would be just wishful thinking.

Cheats for release to to the general public have been unavailable for quite some time however the most recent rash of cheaters being spotted in open is likely the act of a few select individuals who simply don't care enough about the game to hide their actions. It's likely dozens or even hundreds of people are actually using the trainers.

The most likely scenario is that we will never know who is using hacks and who isn't. Seeing players show up suddenly under new account names though might clue you in. Since so many players have a second account already if they get one banned they'll just switch to the other. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter who's cheating and who is not cheating. The fact that we can cheat means everyone is suspect.

Even with the ban however the typical response is only a slap on the wrist. You have to be repetitively egregious to get a permanent ban I think and even then only to shadowplay.

 

[znôrt]

Cheats for release to to the general public have been unavailable for quite some time however the most recent rash of cheaters being spotted in open is likely the act of a few select individuals who simply don't care enough about the game to hide their actions.

sorry but ... do you have actually any facts?

It's likely dozens or even hundreds of people are actually using the trainers.

no, it's likely one player has been cheating publicly, for hours, weeks after the trainer went public, and a weekend has passed, and yet still nothing.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

What is their to communicate beyond: here is the cheat tool, make it stop working. It is not like the 'protester' has super secret info; all he knows and has can be known and had by all in a few minutes. And FD has been pointed at it over and over and over for month after month after month. There is only one thing left now, and that is for FD to fix this. We cant help beyond reminding them it is still a problem and we haven't forgotten.

Our group has some reasons to believe that FD did not have access to the latest version of the hacker tool when SDC/OA etc. (re-)raised this topic a few weeks ago.

So, since this guy clearly does have access to that, I thought it would be good for him and FD to run some reproduceable tests. So, let FD and him pick a random quiet system, or maybe they can even move him "magically" to some test system they have, and start running tests:

1. Start with just normal game: do journal log checks, and see what FD sees on the server end
2. Now add the shield hack, and see if this shows up anywhere in journal logs or on the server, any anomalies from #1
3. Try the other hacks, wake while mass locked, etc. and see why the game lets it happen
4. They could patch a version of the game specifically for the programmer to get more debugging info out (probably would just be a switch, i'd imagine some debug log capability is already in the game)

Of course, the protester should also hand-over a copy of the tool and where he got it, so FD can track updates to the tool.

FD, I am pretty sure, can't fix this with their current approach of reacting to reports, but not doing any real effective detection of their own. Whether for hack or for bots. So, they need to go pro-active. Whether this is through logging, added checks in the code, behavioral analysis, etc. Especially behavioral analysis seems to be something they don't want to do. Check for each jump what the jump range is, and if it exceeds the ship's capability, flag the account (include whether source system was neutron or white dwarf of course). You don't have to catch everything but if you either can 1) catch some type of usage or 2) at least flag accounts for manual follow-ups, we've come a long way from where we are now.

I know for a fact their tracking leaves a lot to be desired as my group has had more success identifying botting accounts than FD has.

 

[Schmack]

sorry but ... do you have actually any facts?



no, it's likely one player has been cheating publicly, for hours, weeks after the trainer went public, and a weekend has passed, and yet still nothing.

Well you're wrong. The hack is available for anyone to use. Just simply looking at the number of people that have offered a thumbs up to that hack on their forum you can count 50 or 60 right there. It's naive to believe only one person is doing this.

People have been cheating publicly for years. Until now those who reported it have been scoffed at and told to get better at what they do.

 

[znôrt]

Well you're wrong. The hack is available for anyone to use. Just simply looking at the number of people that have offered a thumbs up to that hack on their forum you can count 50 or 60 right there. It's naive to believe only one person is doing this.

i may be wrong. in this and in a lot of issues. but pardon me if i find you're just being naive here.
how do you even know there's only one trainer?
so you got wind of a script kiddy website and have now insight into the whole creeping underground world?

 

[Schmack]

i may be wrong. in this and in a lot of issues. but pardon me if i find you're just being naive here.
how do you even know there's only one trainer?
so you got wind of a script kiddy website and have now insight into the whole creeping underground world?

I didn't say there's only one trainer. If there's more than one then it stands to reason that would be even more people using trainers in the game which supports my previous statement.

Plenty people here have insight to the creeping underground world. These are just programmers creating scripts for cheat engine tools. It's nothing Mr. Robot like.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

indeed.

That fact that after 3.3 it just took days to update the hack tools means that most if not all the variables used to drive these hacks are in fixed positions from the game start of memory, and they just needed to fix one or multiple offsets.

 

[znôrt]

I didn't say there's only one trainer. If there's more than one then it stands to reason that would be even more people using trainers in the game which supports my previous statement.

oh, ok, you're still in the "this is an isolated incident" phase.

this is deliberate blatant cheating, so blatant that a simple video is proof way more than enough. you also would easily spot any idiot running full invul.

you don't get to see the subtle cheating aimed to truly con. and you maybe wouldn't mind, and that's fine, but pvp'ers do, and very understandably, because this undermines their whole gameplay. pvp'ers need to be able to trust the platform to a reasonable extent. what we just saw is just gimmicks, but shows that the trust is not merited. and frontier is still silent.

 

[Schmack]

oh, ok, you're still in the "this is an isolated incident" phase.

Just the opposite. It's not an isolated incident. Keep her cheating all the time and have been since pretty much the game was released.

this is deliberate blatant cheating, so blatant that a simple video is proof way more than enough. you also would easily spot any idiot running full invul.

Well there's been other videos available for quite some time of people being invulnerable. What was done about it? Probably case-by-case actions, not the broad brush baby out with the bathwater act that some here seem to be calling for.

you don't get to see the subtle cheating aimed to truly con. and you maybe wouldn't mind, and that's fine, but pvp'ers do, and very understandably, because this undermines their whole gameplay. pvp'ers need to be able to trust the platform to a reasonable extent. what we just saw is just gimmicks, but shows that the trust is not merited. and frontier is still silent.

But player-versus-player types don't have any more right to swift action than anyone else has. Your gameplay style doesn't entitle you to special consideration. Cheaters should still be dealt with on a case-by-case basis and I don't believe any special statement needs to be made to the player-versus-player groups.

I don't do player-versus-player these days but I have for years and years and I've been on the losing side of that cheating equation plenty of times. I know what it feels like and once it happens you no longer trust the other side. Once you can't trust the other side you almost you almost play in solo all the time.

 

[Chaparral]

I hate to say this.
Cheating is looking kind of fun.
Is it worth 30$ and a few hours of void opal mining to troll the entire community for several hours? Maybe.
If you don't get the account banned, then wow - that's totally worth it.

 

[Enderby]

Is he or she still there?