Can implies that someone or something is stopping them from doing X, willing is not doing it because one does not decide so.
How does showing the work you have actually invested in cheating is senseless?
Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.
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Can implies that someone or something is stopping them from doing X, willing is not doing it because one does not decide so.
How does showing the work you have actually invested in cheating is senseless?
Unfortunately, FDev isn't actively developing a fix. The client-side checks that have been implemented by FDev as an anti-cheat measure haven't changed in 2 years. Most companies push small updates (80mb or less) to change these checks periodically to at least make the hack devs put in time to fix it every time it stops working but FDev hasn't changed anything. The hack devs literally joke about this in their discord.
The fact is that FDev just doesn't consider this a big enough problem in their game to prioritize dev time in order to fix.
![Afterglow [SecB]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/38/38904.jpg?1659821716){kind=avatar}
I would be interested in how many players play in "open play". I think the players in the open suffer more from cheating than players who never play in the open. if the percentage of open players is small enough, there will hardly be a solution to this problem.
According to Sandy on an FDev stream a year or so ago, Open is the most populated mode by a wide margin.
IIRC FDev said the majority play in Open by a wide margin, I forget the exact quote.
Depends on the type of cheat the player is concerned about. BGS cheats & loophole exploits are cross-mode, cross-platform.
Less than 2 years. It got shut down at the end of 2017, that we can see from reading the cheat forum. So about 1.5 years we know of. The hackers then hid themselves away and developed a new version. How many new versions there have been since then, or as you say, no new version have been needed, i don't know.
However, i'm certainly not going to take your word for it, SDC members have been running on zero believability regarding their statements for years now. If you can PM or otherwise let me know some place where i can verify this statement myself, then i'll be happy to take a gander.
So, in the same breath that you say "it's not 2 years, it's 1.5" you're also saying that you don't believe it because of the source. Incredible logical hoops you're jumping through just to carry more water for FDev.
To you, there is no proof I can provide that would convince you because you are an ideologue.
It is the same trust issue that you have with FDev. It is the same issue I had when proposing CLogging solutions, you don't trust that which you do not know.
Trust is established by saying you (not specifically you) are going to do something - you are on the case, then the observer sees that that thing happens. Once is not enough to gain trust, if the pattern repeats multiple times the trust is established.
For everything bad we need to do 10 good things. It's a rule of thumb I use. On the basis that I'll screw up every so often I am constantly working to establish trust so the occasional lapse is more likely to be overlooked.
Unfortunately since the rules are so restrictive on these forums with regard to posting information about this stuff, I literally cannot provide proof without being moderated. A few pages back I made the claim that Nick PMed Paige directly with the hack he used in March and provided a screenshot to back it up sent by Nick himself. It got moderated.
ryan, I believe the issue you describe, because it is one I have a bee in my bonnet about too. I am able to verify what you claim to my own satisfaction from independent sources. So is Agony, from their browsing the cheaters' forums. A silver lining to the blocking Beluga event the other day is that it demonstrated clearly & simply that your concerns are valid to the wider community.
However most people do not get involved in PvP to the extent that they could reliably say whether they were facing an opponent with cheats enabled or not, and relatively speaking those are the easier cheats for players to identify.
Gather anecdotal evidence on (and from) Cloggers that have been reported - they may have received a stern e-mail, or a 3-day ban that you may not have noticed as an observer of their behaviour. Test whether FDev are doing anything about it. I appreciate that you will probably think it is not enough, but it will help you to establish trust that something is done, even if you think the punishment is not enough. Personally I am not concerned about punishments or bans, I just want it to stop, or be seen to be discouraged at least.
We did that twice, actually.
2016 Edition.
2018 Edition.
First one got a response from Zac admitting they didn't follow procedure with our reports, 2nd got a drive-by "we understand your concern" post from a CM.
I'm saying i don't consider you the most reliable narrator and actually trust the cheat forums more for information because they were discussing the state of the hack. Its hard to imagine some sort of conspiracy there of people saying its working then not working to make people who happened to be reading that its no longer working.
Just PM me a link to the current place where they are discussing it... oh hell, i'll just google it.
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I'd post screens from the internal discord where the devs specifically talk about this, but it would just get me modded.
Then they can put in a true offline mode hopefully.
(Mods - i understand some of the things i'll post here might be crossing the line but not sure. Just edit out anything that is too much please!)
Ok, found the forums where they are discussing.
So i see a report of someone getting a week ban back in March. So FD are obviously detecting things.
Onward, let's see if i can find any evidence of them producing new versions to get around fixes FD are implementing....
Well, at least one mention of needing a new version to make it work, but that could be just general FD updates breaking the hack unintentionally, i won't consider that direct proof that FD made changes to break the hack.
Woah, found the changelog, some of the stuff it enables you to do... these hackers are damn good!
Ah, well, we have something, not what i was looking for. Initial release of this cheat was august 2018. So if the previous version got shut down around November 2017, it means FD stymied these guys for over half a year, that's pretty impressive. Of course, it doesn't prove that there were not other cheats available during that period.
Ok, talk of some unsafe options that are likely to get you detected, i'm not downloading the hack to see which ones are considered unsafe, although from the previous versions i know jumping too far could get you detected. Ah, setting energy consumption is a big red flag apparently.
October 2018, report that its detectable, reply that using in solo and carefully should be no problem.
October 2018 - ohhh, some conflict between the previous devs and the new dev. Spicy!
Ah, a hint there are two versions, one with the original devs (on the Discord that has been mentioned?) and this new guy who is public and used their code to make a new version.
Over to another forum, same cheat....
September 2018, someone reporting they were detected 3 day shadowban.
Using the cheat can cause crashes in some circumstances (possibly fixed in later versions)
Someone boasting that after their ban they could continue using, no follow up ban at the time of posting (just being more sensible?)
Another ban in October 2018 - 3 day shadowban.
November 2018 - someone reporting the version at that time is detectable, several of posters friends reported getting bans.
Creator of the other version reports the creator of this version missed some checks to avoid detection.
November 2018 - trainer not working with current version. Again, no evidence whether this is due to FD making intentional changes to stop the hack or just general patch breaking the hack.
Found Discord link for the original hackers but link expired....
December 2018 - hack stops working again. Update required.
January 2019 - stopped working again.
Feb 2019 - report of someone getting banned for 72 hours despite not using any unsafe options (no indication when this happened though)
April 2019 - trainer not working again
3 weeks ago - panic starts over trainer being exposed on FD forums.
Haha, a report from a cheater bragging about forcing a ganker to run... i must admit, i did have to smile at that. Running cheats is not right, but giving gankers a taste of their own medicine is rather priceless.
5 days ago - report of getting a 3 day shadowban, they suspect from using an unsafe option.
1 hour ago - someone just copped a 7 day shadowban. As far as i can tell, not certain they used any unsafe option.
TL;DR/Conclusions:
1) FD have been taking action against those they detect for a long time.
2) The punishments are weak. 3 day shadowban seems the norm, 7 day ban was the max reported. However, permabans have been noted in the past, specifically in 2016 and 2017. Probably repeat offenders. My guess is its something like 3 days, 7 days, then perma.
3) Detection mechanisms are weak. Some functions unsafe. Some functions fairly safe, although maybe not any more (based on the last report).
4) Patches tend to break the hack. How much of this is intentional by FD making changes to stop hacks working and how much is just due to things changeing due to the patches so the hack needs tweaking (memory addresses etc), is not possible to determine as no direct comments regarding this from the hackers.
Ok, found the forums where they are discussing.
So i see a report of someone getting a week ban back in March. So FD are obviously detecting things.
Onward, let's see if i can find any evidence of them producing new versions to get around fixes FD are implementing....
Well, at least one mention of needing a new version to make it work, but that could be just general FD updates breaking the hack unintentionally, i won't consider that direct proof that FD made changes to break the hack.
Woah, found the changelog, some of the stuff it enables you to do... these hackers are damn good!
Ah, well, we have something, not what i was looking for. Initial release of this cheat was august 2018. So if the previous version got shut down around November 2017, it means FD stymied these guys for over half a year, that's pretty impressive. Of course, it doesn't prove that there were not other cheats available during that period.
Ok, talk of some unsafe options that are likely to get you detected, i'm not downloading the hack to see which ones are considered unsafe, although from the previous versions i know jumping too far could get you detected. Ah, setting energy consumption is a big red flag apparently.
October 2018, report that its detectable, reply that using in solo and carefully should be no problem.
October 2018 - ohhh, some conflict between the previous devs and the new dev. Spicy!
Ah, a hint there are two versions, one with the original devs (on the Discord that has been mentioned?) and this new guy who is public and used their code to make a new version.
Over to another forum, same cheat....
September 2018, someone reporting they were detected 3 day shadowban.
Using the cheat can cause crashes in some circumstances (possibly fixed in later versions)
Someone boasting that after their ban they could continue using, no follow up ban at the time of posting (just being more sensible?)
Another ban in October 2018 - 3 day shadowban.
November 2018 - someone reporting the version at that time is detectable, several of posters friends reported getting bans.
Creator of the other version reports the creator of this version missed some checks to avoid detection.
November 2018 - trainer not working with current version. Again, no evidence whether this is due to FD making intentional changes to stop the hack or just general patch breaking the hack.
Found Discord link for the original hackers but link expired....
December 2018 - hack stops working again. Update required.
January 2019 - stopped working again.
Feb 2019 - report of someone getting banned for 72 hours despite not using any unsafe options (no indication when this happened though)
April 2019 - trainer not working again
3 weeks ago - panic starts over trainer being exposed on FD forums.
Haha, a report from a cheater bragging about forcing a ganker to run... i must admit, i did have to smile at that. Running cheats is not right, but giving gankers a taste of their own medicine is rather priceless.
5 days ago - report of getting a 3 day shadowban, they suspect from using an unsafe option.
1 hour ago - someone just copped a 7 day shadowban. As far as i can tell, not certain they used any unsafe option.
TL;DR/Conclusions:
1) FD have been taking action against those they detect for a long time.
2) The punishments are weak. 3 day shadowban seems the norm, 7 day ban was the max reported. However, permabans have been noted in the past, specifically in 2016 and 2017. Probably repeat offenders. My guess is its something like 3 days, 7 days, then perma.
3) Detection mechanisms are weak. Some functions unsafe. Some functions fairly safe, although maybe not any more (based on the last report).
4) Patches tend to break the hack. How much of this is intentional by FD making changes to stop hacks working and how much is just due to things changeing due to the patches so the hack needs tweaking (memory addresses etc), is not possible to determine as no direct comments regarding this from the hackers.
Understandable. Unfortunately i just can't take anything any member of SDC says at face value any more. You guys largely burned through any trust years ago, you always have an agenda and are willing to twist things to your needs as you see fit.
However, i still have some trust of Rinzler as i think he is largely an honest person, despite his affiliation. If Rinzler confirmes what you are saying, i will drop my objection, although i'll remain somewhat skeptical about the 2 year claim since the "evindence" i just posted seems to say otherwise. If he says 1 year or perhaps 1.5? I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt, on this issue.
NOW we're on the same team! There are enough bugs in this game that Frontier could release a bug-fix patch every week between now and New Era and still not fix them all, which would also reset these hacks. DO IT, FRONTIER, DO IT
Sorry, I won't believe your "evidence" because you have repeatedly twisted things to your needs as you see fit. See how easy that is?
Sure, but you can confirm my evidence by looking at the same public sources i did. I can event provide you the links via PM if you want!
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