Newcomer / Intro Programming T.A.R.G.E.T (Thrustmaster HOTAS Software)

[Wargfoot]

Not quite sure where to put this question so I'll drop it here and beg forgiveness.

After much work (1) I finally have developed an uncomfortable alliance with T.A.R.G.E.T.
I've learned enough of the quirks to be able to get the silly thing up and running - curves in place, some button programmed, life is good.

In looking at some of the advanced programming available I'm wondering if is possible to create the following sequence of events based on a single button click:

1: Check if Cargo Scoop is down, if down, retract.
2: Check if Landing Gear is down, if down, retract.
3: Check if Hardpoints are out, if out, retract.
4: Supercruise

If I'm confronted with a PvP encounter that isn't going well I'd like to be able to click one button to get me to supercruise and have that one button click take care of anything that might get in the way of me getting out of dodge. Not only for PvP, but for just about anytime I need to jump it would be nice to click the option to jump without the annoying message of "Hey idiot, your hardpoints are out."

So is this possible?










NOTES
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1: Reading the manual.

 

[BradHann]

I can't help you myself, but have a search on this forum for Aussiedroid's thrustmaster script. It's an old thread but should still be floating around somwhere.

 

[Para Handy]

I can't help you myself, but have a search on this forum for Aussiedroid's thrustmaster script. It's an old thread but should still be floating around somwhere.

Here you go:

Release - Aussiedroid's Enhanced Thrustmaster Warthog Script

Welcome to My Enhanced Custom Warthog Script! About: Some consider the lack of twist & button options make this device far from ideal for Elite Dangerous, but I found this certainly not to be the case. That being said, after trying to configure things in the TARGET GUI & ED and being...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Morbad]

Possible? Quite probably, though I'm not familiar enough with TARGET to be certain.

Regardless, it would cross a serious line in third-party automation, one that goes way beyond pip macros or sensitivity slopes and, from my perspective, into cheat territory.

Part of playing the game is developing the presence of mind and familiarity with the ships systems to make these sort of assessments and corrections yourself.

 

[Wargfoot]

Regardless, it would cross a serious line in third-party automation, one that goes way beyond pip macros or sensitivity slopes and, from my perspective, into cheat territory.

Not even close.

 

[Morbad]

Not even close.

I disagree, and I suspect even Frontier might be willing to flex that anti-automation clause in their ToS if such uses became too overt.

 

[Wargfoot]

I disagree, and I suspect even Frontier might be willing to flex that anti-automation clause in their ToS if such uses became too overt.

We'd have to know the definition of 'automation' from Frontier's perspective.

There is a huge difference between automation where programmable input devices fire off key presses (1) in a particular order and automation that allows unattended ships to mine asteroids all night while the player sleeps. I think applying the term automation to programmable input devices is a misuse of the term (until I see clarification from FDEV).
I'd offer as exhibit #1 the post Para Handy references above - it has instructions to do what I suggest and has been on the official forum for 2.5 years.

Your exclusion of curve software is arbitrary at best - in both cases the software is doing something better than the user could without its aid.

In short, I'd maintain you've misunderstood what FDEV means by automation.
They'd most likely mean the sort of automation that allows unattended game play.
That is what it has meant in every other game I've ever played.






NOTES
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1: This is already widely available and already widely in use on gamming mice, keyboards, and input devices which advertise programmability.

 

[GJ51]

LOL

I have TM Warthogs but TARGET is just another unnecessary layer

You can just put everything directly into ED settings and use Voice Attack with HCS voicepacks and/or EDDI

Much easier and useful. Only negative is no custom curves, but I really don't see the need.

 

[Morbad]

We'd have to know the definition of 'automation' from Frontier's perspective.

There is a huge difference between automation where programmable input devices fire off key presses (1) in a particular order and automation that allows unattended ships to mine asteroids all night while the player sleeps. I think applying the term automation to programmable input devices is a misuse of the term (until I see clarification from FDEV).
I'd offer as exhibit #1 the post Para Handy references above - it has instructions to do what I suggest and has been on the official forum for 2.5 years.

Your exclusion of curve software is arbitrary at best - in both cases the software is doing something better than the user could without its aid.

In short, I'd maintain you've misunderstood what FDEV means by automation.
They'd most likely mean the sort of automation that allows unattended game play.
That is what it has meant in every other game I've ever played.

The example you cite in the OP would have the software make assessments and decisions on your behalf. It's not just a short combination of key presses, or a directly mapped slope.

Having one button activate landing gear, cargo scoop, and hardpoints is trivial. Even having it automatically engage SC is barely more questionable. However, having it check to see what you've got deployed then only activating those specific controls is an entirely different matter; you want the software to solve a problem that goes well beyond simple control inputs.

 

[Slange Lands]

Warg,

In PvP the point is to develop reflexes and equilibrium such that when reminded when something is amiss, you adjust, adapt, and go on. Besides, there is nothing like getting blown up to reinforce your not committing the same errors.

I may be wrong, but are you a bit of a control freak? A lot of us are. I certainly am.
Don't be.
Enjoy the explosion.
Do explosions unto others.

 

[Maenden]

I don't think you can do it.
As far as I know, from my limited experience with TARGET, there is no software flag available to detect, for example, if your cargo scoop is open or closed.
So you can't tell it to close only IF it is open. You can only toggle the current state to the opposite state. For example when open you close it, if it's closed you open it.
The software doesn't know the current state so you can't run an 'IF' statement.

In basic terms all you can do with TARGET is program your HOTAS keys to reproduce the button presses defined by your key-binds.
Because TARGET is a joystick driver app, not a software patch for Elite, it gets no feedback from the game.

You can chain these emulated keybinds into macros to, for example, set the pips level. This works because a single 'down arrow' sets to the default.
You can create other macros to, for example, ask for docking permission and initiate autodock with a single key press, but it only works if you're in the correct panel when you press that button.

I might be wrong.
I usually am.

 

[Clicker]

Answer is YES.
You can.
i have.
And no, it isn’t cheating.

Now the bad news. As Maenden has indicated, you need to be able to use state tracking within your scripts.
In order to reliably know the state of your scoop, gear and hardpoints, you need to be able to read in the “Flags” key value in the status.json file.

This is/was, no small feat and requires a fair bit of code.

For a teaser on how I do it, go through the Aussiedroid script forum thread and you’ll come across a couple of posts from me on this exact method.

If you go ahead and try to get this working but get stuck, let me know and I’ll help you out.

Cheers
Clicker

 

[Wargfoot]

The example you cite in the OP would have the software make assessments and decisions on your behalf. It's not just a short combination of key presses, or a directly mapped slope.

Having one button activate landing gear, cargo scoop, and hardpoints is trivial. Even having it automatically engage SC is barely more questionable. However, having it check to see what you've got deployed then only activating those specific controls is an entirely different matter; you want the software to solve a problem that goes well beyond simple control inputs.

You're entitled to your opinion and that isn't really something I feel compelled to change.
I only took exception to what I considered to be the misuse of 'automation' in relation to the TOS.

 

[Wargfoot]

Answer is YES.
You can.
i have.
And no, it isn’t cheating.

Now the bad news. As Maenden has indicated, you need to be able to use state tracking within your scripts.
In order to reliably know the state of your scoop, gear and hardpoints, you need to be able to read in the “Flags” key value in the status.json file.

This is/was, no small feat and requires a fair bit of code.

For a teaser on how I do it, go through the Aussiedroid script forum thread and you’ll come across a couple of posts from me on this exact method.

If you go ahead and try to get this working but get stuck, let me know and I’ll help you out.

Cheers
Clicker

It occurs to me that all I have to do is map to two different buttons.
One button retracts hardpoints, sets pips, and engages supercruise and the other just engages supercruise.

I'm not likely to be in a situation where I'll need to beat feet while having a cargo scoop deployed.
Thanks for the help though.

 

[Wargfoot]

Warg,

In PvP the point is to develop reflexes and equilibrium such that when reminded when something is amiss, you adjust, adapt, and go on. Besides, there is nothing like getting blown up to reinforce your not committing the same errors.

I may be wrong, but are you a bit of a control freak? A lot of us are. I certainly am.
Don't be.
Enjoy the explosion.
Do explosions unto others.

I'm using a HOTAS with FA 'OFF'.
Compare that with what most PvP experts use (relative mouse/keyboard) and I think it is clear I'm already plenty gimped.

^--- Plenty gimped long before you consider my skill level, which is mediocre on a good day.

So no, I don't think having a button programmed to retract my hardpoints and drop into supercruise is going to make me a threat to anyone.
I've tons of backup fail other than flailing for a hardpoints button while panicking under fire.

 

[Para Handy]

..............
So no, I don't think having a button programmed to retract my hardpoints and drop into supercruise is going to make me a threat to anyone.
I've tons of backup fail other than flailing for a hardpoints button while panicking under fire.

Following the discussion it seems that nobody has highlighted your "escape to supercruise while under attack" since you can be "mass-locked" by your attacker(s) - escape via a high-wake is usually preferable (i.e. more chance of survival ).

 

[Wargfoot]

Following the discussion it seems that nobody has highlighted your "escape to supercruise while under attack" since you can be "mass-locked" by your attacker(s) - escape via a high-wake is usually preferable (i.e. more chance of survival ).

Excellent, thank you.
Now I just need to find a way to program a 'murder other commander' button.

 

[Peacemaker Thor]

I need help, after mapping about 20 key to joystick buttons and saving config (TM T16000m) I went in game and none of the buttons responded, only trigger boost and movement, any idea what i'm not doing?

 

[Wargfoot]

I need help, after mapping about 20 key to joystick buttons and saving config (TM T16000m) I went in game and none of the buttons responded, only trigger boost and movement, any idea what i'm not doing?

I think the T16000 comes with a default configuration.
Try using the default to see if everything works and then edit the default.

 

[Clicker]

I need help, after mapping about 20 key to joystick buttons and saving config (TM T16000m) I went in game and none of the buttons responded, only trigger boost and movement, any idea what i'm not doing?

When you say you mapped 20 keys to buttons....do you mean via Target, or in the controller settings in game?
(You need to do both!)

Clicker