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Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?
- Thread starter CMDR Karrde Sun
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Long thread... read most of it, not all of it... but feel obliged to say:
I like the FSS, and the DSS. Both have added greatly to my enjoyment of the game.
Carry on!
I like the FSS, and the DSS. Both have added greatly to my enjoyment of the game.
Carry on!
Seems pointless to me. Let's think about how this would actually have to work to be viable...
You honk, it tells you there are X Bodies in the system. You get 0 credits for this.
Your system map is populated by blank spheres you cannot select, as you have to actually scan them with the FSS.
Your list is populated by X "Unknown" bodies, you also can't select, as you don't even know where they are, just that they are.
Signal sources are not revealed, as that's the role of the FSS.
So what did you get for your efforts? A noise and a number.
Guess what, the Discover Scanner that's built into your ship already does exactly that, save the list of unselectable unknowns - because you don't deserve an advantage over anyone. You don't get to see or hear anything on the system map, for the same reasons.
So what's the point of it? Pretty sure Frontier had this same discussion. They also saw it as pointless, didn't like it in the first place, and gave us something they do.
Just so happens, I like it too. It's pretty close to what I've been asking for for over 3 years, and others even longer.
But let's flip the script here a bit and talk about a change that was made without consulting me, that I don't particularly like:
Engineering
But wait, because this isn't quite what you're expecting. I also asked for several years that our Engineers be given brains and not to make a Grade 4 "upgrade" turn out worse than the Grade 1 upgrade I started with, and they did. I suggested a progressive system, where each improvement was actually an improvement over the previous upgrade, and it is - sometimes less than 0.1%, but it's still an improvement.
But where they copulated it all up was - Making the Engineers all suffer from Anterograde amnesia. "What are you talking about Broo? You just made a Grade 5 Cannon Upgrade! What do you mean you have to start over again? It's the exact same kind of cannon!" Yes, I'm talking about the Every Upgrade From Grade 1 trash. Absolute, utter garbage. But you don't see me starting and perpetuating 400 page threads about making the old Engineering systems coexist with the new ones. I'm not rage-quitting, inciting riots, or even pouting about this change to MY game play. I can't be convinced it's not asinine, and honestly I've never heard anyone say anything to the contrary, but I don't like it. I admit it openly and freely. I've suggested changes - like allowing us to upgrade all of a matching system (aka all your miniguns/cannons/beam lasers/HRPs/Whatever) at the same time, with the same effect, even an an increased cost (cumulative cost +1 would be fair), just to not have to sit there and upgrade and upgrade and upgrade and upgrade and upgrade and upgrade and upgrade and upgrade and... I think you get the point (my last G5 mod took 27 upgrades to max out), and then do it all over again for port side cannon.
But Buttercup, I sucked it up. I live with it. If they improve it later on because they see the light and realize "That doesn't make sense", then great. If they take the British way and say "But we like to suffer..." then that's fine too. It's their game, it's their prerogative. I'm just here to fly pretend space ships and seed the galaxy with my quirky sense of dark humor.
I believe you mean "loop".
And no, it's not. Go ahead, post your snippet of Cobra Engine coding. Let's see you prove me wrong.
So... wipe the bubble? I'm fine with that.
Now this idea I can fully endorse. My own usage would be a bit different, but I certainly like these sorts of improvements.
When the first sentence contains a fallacy, the rest of the post is garbage - much like exploration gated behind the FSS.
But I'm not going to waste any more pixels, the dev gods have spoken - the faithful are satisfied.
The unbelievers are cast into the wilderness to find new games to play.
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That would work fine I should imagine.
Unfortunately, black orbs wouldn't do it for me, because my sole reason for having a visual on a body is to look for strangely colored gas giants without having to scan thousands of not interesting (to me) gas giants to find the one that is.
So, to be clear something that would work for me, I would enter a system, use the FSS to see if there's anything obviously interesting but without tagging anything at all, then if there's nothing obviously interesting but a bunch of gas giants, I would be happy to populate the system map as above - but still not tagging or exploring anything, that would take very little time, even for a large system, then glance at the map to see whether any of the giants were glowing, and if they were, very unlikely, scan the system properly using the FSS. And if not, leave the system without putting my paw prints all over it.
Anything else that I personally am interested in looking for (say an ELW orbiting a brown dwarf) I can get from the FSS and don't need a system map. (Having got all the tags, credits and ranks that the game can throw at me, looking for strangely colored gas giants or other very rare stuff is simply something that could prompt me to explore again.
)I suspect that such granularity would be achievable by having different FSS upgrade possibilities so those who didn't want a visual of a body could get what they wanted too. That said, not expecting anything to come of this at this point.
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No, it really is called a circular argument and yes, it is one because the conclusion is within a premise itself.
And the rest of your post is completely irrelevant.
As you need to use the FSS anyway to get the map, if you are only interested in the gas giants, there is no reason why you can't zoom into them as it takes no time at all. The reason why they would be black orbs is because you are not using the dial. If you were using the dial, then you would know what it is.That would work fine I should imagine.
Unfortunately, black orbs wouldn't do it for me, because my sole reason for having a visual on a body is to look for strangely colored gas giants without having to scan thousands of not interesting (to me) gas giants to find the one that is.
So, to be clear something that would work for me, I would enter a system, use the FSS to see if there's anything obviously interesting but without tagging anything at all, then if there's nothing obviously interesting but a bunch of gas giants, I would be happy to populate the system map as above - but still not tagging or exploring anything, that would take very little time, even for a large system, then glance at the map to see whether any of the giants were glowing, and if they were, very unlikely, scan the system properly using the FSS. And if not, leave the system without putting my paw prints all over it.
Anything else that I personally am interested in looking for (say an ELW orbiting a brown dwarf) I can get from the FSS and don't need a system map. (Having got all the tags, credits and ranks that the game can throw at me, looking for strangely colored gas giants or other very rare stuff is simply something that could prompt me to explore again.
I suspect that such granularity would be achievable by having different FSS upgrade possibilities so those who didn't want a visual of a body could get what they wanted too. That said, not expecting anything to come of this at this point.
All it does is give people as many options as possible when using the new mechanics, but have it make sense when those mechanics are concerned. It's not going to please everyone though.
Just trying to come up with ideas that help as many people as possible.
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No. It's a way of saying that they are might not constantly be re-inventing the wheel, but use what they have and improve upon it.
That's also how I see it. I use it, I like it. (Oki, yes, it also took me a little to get use to its handling and I would very much like some improvements done to it. See an earlier posting of me here. ) It adds more to the game than the "hold button for a few seconds, win" of the old ADS.
It's not perfect, but it is a step ahead. I wish we had this from launch, not that many years later, though. And in the end, it also boils down to what somebody else said: it's FDs game. They also didn't like the old ADS. That's why they replaced it. That's all that matters.
I'm excusing you cause gregg rulz and CRIMES.
Yet, have you heard of multi-quotes ?
It was in the game for a long time, and could easily remain so. There was no need to remove them & there is an ongoing demand for that functionality that does not impact other players in any negative way.
Removing that functionality was an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it is easy to do. They just need to get on with it.
No.
There was a need to remove it - it quite simply does not fit FDevs vision for exploration, and that is really all the reasoning needed, regardless of your twisted logic concerning what a valid reason for removal must be.
Removing it was not an oversight - go read Adam's post again. They knew exactly what they were doing and have stated more than once that they knew it would impact a small subset of explorers.
They don't need to just get on with correcting anything - you need to get over it, and give it a rest already. Maybe take a cue from Drew & Ralph - they seem unhappy with the FSS, but they have accepted (possibly begrudgingly) FDevs final statement and are now looking to suggest possible future tweaks that may redress some of what they feel the have lost.
to both of them.No.
There was a need to remove it - it quite simply does not fit FDevs vision for exploration, and that is really all the reasoning needed, regardless of your twisted logic concerning what a valid reason for removal must be.
Removing it was not an oversight - go read Adam's post again. They knew exactly what they were doing and have stated more than once that they knew it would impact a small subset of explorers.
They don't need to just get on with correcting anything - you need to get over it, and give it a rest already. Maybe take a cue from Drew & Ralph - they seem unhappy with the FSS, but they have accepted (possibly begrudgingly) FDevs final statement and are now looking to suggest possible future tweaks that may redress some of what they feel the have lost.
They absolutely do need to, and it has no downside either. There was no need to remove them and had they not been removed you would not be campaigning for their removal - you would simply use or ignore them.
Yep, completely understand, and agree, it takes no real extra time, and as I've said from the begining, it's very quick anyway.
Problem is, for me the FSS simply isn't compelling enough gameplay to use 'for the sake of it'... To find out if I wanted to scan something by having to scan it first, and then find out that I'm not interested in the result after all. And I don't want to leave my name all over the galmap (no matter how few people will ever see it) just because...
Anyway, not a problem, it is what it is.
Nothing I can do about that i'm afraid. All I can do is try to come with ideas that could make the FSS a better system. Not that I think FDev will ever look at them let alone implement them.Yep, completely understand, and agree, it takes no real extra time, and as I've said from the begining, it's very quick anyway.
Problem is, for me the FSS simply isn't compelling enough gameplay to use 'for the sake of it'... To find out if I wanted to scan something by having to scan it first, and then find out that I'm not interested in the result after all. And I don't want to leave my name all over the galmap (no matter how few people will ever see it) just because...
Anyway, not a problem, it is what it is.
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