200 credits bounty, 250M credits punishment

[galahad2069]

[*]tried to pay of that bounty at the same faction that issued it: possible but..hey...interstellar factors...

No, not possible. You cannot pay off your bounty anywhere else but at an Interstellar Factor. Only fines can be paid off where they were issued. If it's a bounty, you can only hand yourself in, but that will result in being transported to a detention center, sometimes many lightyears away (strange, apparently there are no prisons in every star system), which is nothing more than an extra annoyance in most cases.

The system is pretty counter-intuitive, especially if you are not playing a criminal character and only accidentally became wanted for a measly 200 Cr bounty on your head, which you got for an unfortunate shot causing nothing more than some insignificant damage.

There are several documented cases of people getting stopped by a police officer for driving too fast or having a broken rear light on their car, and getting shot because they didn't put their hands on the wheel or tried to grab something from the backseat, with the officer getting nervous because the thought they'd grab a weapon.

No, that's only the US. In many other parts of the civilised world (like in Europe) there is literally zero chance that you'll get shot in the head by the police for not placing your hands on the wheel or something like that.

That said, I agree that the OP did many mistakes, it's just that the ingame C&P system is very stupidly counter-intuitive in some cases IMO, so I wouldn't condemn him for not being able to guess what consequences he might face, based on RL experiences.

 

[war4peace]

And, because you insist that 200 credit bounty does not warrant the destruction of a multi-million-dollar ship:
There are several documented cases of people getting stopped by a police officer for driving too fast or having a broken rear light on their car, and getting shot because they didn't put their hands on the wheel or tried to grab something from the backseat, with the officer getting nervous because the thought they'd grab a weapon.

Unbelievable. Are you really trying to spin this to your advantage? Are you really making an analogy to real-life tragedies which innocent people were killed by overzealous police officers? Look again, it's an argument in my favor as a matter of fact.
Great effort is being made to mitigate and minimize this kind of tragedies in real life and you're presenting them as "nah, it's fine, see, it happens"? REALLY???

See it from the other side:
Perhaps the police officers in their ships, protecting the station and the traders, don't even see the bounty you have on you head. They (as it is in real life) only see "criminal, wanted for attempted muder with military weapons, armed and dangerous", after they check your licence plate.

There is no "other side". There are badly designed algorithms on the other side. Stop anthropomorphizing pixels, it's ridiculous.
But you bring an interesting argument... "armed and dangerous" - my ship was not outfitted with weapons.
[/QUOTE]

Nothing takes away from the fact that once the OP had gained the bounty, they tried to pay it but weren't allowed, and then logged off for 2 days before coming back on and this incident occured.

One day, not two. I didn't know it's a crime to have real life

I dont buy all this it isnt presented properly in game. I see that as more the players hand isn't held in game. It's all quite logical.

There are aspects of the game that don't need to be explained in detail, allowing the player to discover them. I totally agree. Those factors which result in ship destruction through NPCs actively performing it are not among them.

On another note, I have never been scanned in a station. I dont think that is possible.
Scanning can be initiated outside the station but if you enter the station while being scanned the scan is blocked. I have utilised this mechanic a number of times so I know it works.

I never said it was INSIDE the station. It was very close to the slot while the ship was approaching. Below I have linked a video showing scan close to the station slot, and that is actually happening a bit further from the slot that my occurrence. It can happen while you are passing the metal mesh.

Scanning takes time to complete.

And that was where my lack of knowledge worked against me. I was always under the impression that the scan is for cargo only. Even the journal says so...

{
"timestamp": "2019-06-19T11:52:21Z",
"event": "Scanned",
"ScanType": "Cargo"
}

Now, I don't consider myself as "cargo", but hey, FDev certainly thrown me into that category apparently.

If the OP had sound while being alt tabbed they would have known they were being scanned. But the point is, they were scanned outside the station BEFORE entering it.

Yes, but so close to the slot that it really couldn't matter anymore.

There was ample opportunity to avoid this outcome

Eight seconds, to be more precise.

This is Pilot Error at the end of the day, not inferior system design

Sorry, I am still working on becoming a race driver with iron reflexes.

The example of scan close-ish to the slot below:

Source: https://youtu.be/UFkZdohIW8Y?t=198

 

[Taskmage]

... If it's a bounty, you can only hand yourself in, but that will result in being transported to a detention center, sometimes many lightyears away (strange, apparently there are no prisons in every star system), which is nothing more than an extra annoyance in most cases. ...

True, but it still is a solution to the problem of getting blown up due to a bounty. As such, not the best idea (thats why i said "but") but possible.

... No, that's only the US. In many other parts of the civilised world (like in Europe) there is literally zero chance that you'll get shot in the head by the police for not placing your hands on the wheel or something like that. ...

I's really wish that was true, but unluckily its not. I mentioned the car example because it is well known and easy to google, but here in europe we had similiar incidents, even so no cars were involed. Remember the riots that broke out in france after police officers shot an unarmed boy a few years back? There where two such incidents i know of in france in the last few years. Something similiar happened in germany, one or two years back, where a man was killed by the police after they tried to get inside his flat for some reason - he was unarmed, too. In another german incident a suspect was beaten to death by officers, in his cell after beeing arrested. Such things are rarer in europe, but they do happen. But enough off topic.

 

[dxm55]

I am a returning player... and I have encountered the most ridiculous game mechanic ever seen in any game so far.
A couple days ago, upon attempting a planetary scan mission, I accidentally clicked instead of right-clicking and I launched a single SRV shot on a building from the outpost I was sent to. The automated defenses started shooting me, so I tailed outta there and abandoned the mission. I saw a fine/bounty of 200 credits on my head so i figured I would go to some station and pay it.
Yesterday I loggerd in again, attempted to finish a pending data delivery mission that I had taken earlier so I headed to the destination station. Upon arriving, I requested automated docking, which was granted, and an info message showed up in red: „Anonymous access”. Wondering that that meant, I alt-tabbed (I have Elite Dangerous in borderless windowed mode) and googled for that. While that happened, in the space of 30 seconds, my ship entered the station, being in the process of docking and suddenly was shot from all sides, me alt-tabbing back just in time to get the death pop-up message.

I lost 23 Hutton Mugs that I had in my cargo hold (no, I am not going to go get them again. EVER.), the ship itself (easily replaced through insurance), 3 Modular Terminals (and we all know how difficult it is to gather 25 for Marco Qwent)... and 250M worth of exploration data from my previous trip to Eta Carinae, Statue of Liberty and their surroundings.

That's a bit harsh, isn't it? /sarcasm

Seriously, it's like walking on the street, pulling out your phone and a piece of paper falls to the ground unnoticed. You keep walking and upon entering any public building you are beheaded and all your wealth destroyed.

I lost 5 or 6 days of exploration, hundreds of solar systems worth, and I am a bit upset. So what gives? Is this something that would remain in the game, unchanged? It makes no sense to inflict such a disproportionate punishment for such a small mistake, when there are countless methods to properly punish a mistake according to its gravity.

I feel your loss. Really.

I feel that C&P is broken.
The authorities should only be shooting at players who've committed murders. ie. Destruction of another ship, commander or NPC.

Trespass, Assault charges should result in a lower tier Wanted status that will simply manifest itself as a player being unable to leave the station before paying the fine.

Heard that FDEV?
Remember FE2, FDev?? When I had a fine, I could still dock. But the cops would not let me undock without paying it off.



But I gotta ask you one simple question.


Why did you not claim your Exploration data before taking on a Surface Scan mission?
These missions usually end up in hostile encounters, and you would either get a fine or wanted status for Trespassing.... Or someone would be shooting at you and trying to kill you.

Either way, why did you put yourself in peril with that much of unclaimed loot onboard??

 

[Taskmage]

Unbelievable. Are you really trying to spin this to your advantage? Are you really making an analogy to real-life tragedies which innocent people were killed by overzealous police officers? Look again, it's an argument in my favor as a matter of fact.
Great effort is being made to mitigate and minimize this kind of tragedies in real life and you're presenting them as "nah, it's fine, see, it happens"? REALLY???

You really don't even try to understand - i see that now. No point in discussing with you any further.

I guess you simply can't live with the fact that anything that happened was your, and only your fault. Ok, go on, try to find someone to blame. You wont have luck with that.

Now, have the last word on this matter, hope that helps your peace of mind.

 

[lecorsobreton]

But I gotta ask you one simple question.


Why did you not claim your Exploration data before taking on a Surface Scan mission?
These missions usually end up in hostile encounters, and you would either get a fine or wanted status for Trespassing.... Or someone would be shooting at you and trying to kill you.

Either way, why did you put yourself in peril with that much of unclaimed loot onboard??

Frustration born out of player mistake. We've all been there, doing a stupid mistake that ended up very costly. I remember losing python to a planet crash because I wanted to show off (to myself mostly), losing a Corvette because I thought i could take on that one last anaconda, which resulted in losing the bounties, failing the missions, losing a dangerous crew member etc.

But C&P is not balanced in my opinion.

 

[dxm55]

Frustration born out of player mistake. We've all been there, doing a stupid mistake that ended up very costly. I remember losing python to a planet crash because I wanted to show off (to myself mostly), losing a Corvette because I thought i could take on that one last anaconda, which resulted in losing the bounties, failing the missions, losing a dangerous crew member etc.

But C&P is not balanced in my opinion.

Happens to all of us I guess.

But on the matter of C&P, I think it has been very crudely implemented by FDev.
Definitely needs a major revamp. It doesn't even need to be difficult.


Trespass (Civilian installations, Starport) > Lower Tier offence

• Fines
• No Bounty / Wanted status

Please go ahead and increase the fines to a few thousands to compensate for this.
Eg.
Trespass - Fine of 20,000 Cr
Speeding - Fine of 5,000 Cr
Assault - Fine of 50,000 Cr
Blocking of Landing Pad or Station entrance for under 30 sec - Fine of 50,000 Cr

You can still enter the station, no need for Anon Access.
But you cannot undock at a station allied to the faction you have offended without paying the fine.
And if he can't pay the fine, the current ship is confiscated without rebuy.
If it's your ONLY SHIP, then you end up with a Sidewinder back at the start point.



-------------------------------------


Murder of NPC/Player, Trespass of Naval ship (Capital ships) exclusion Zone > Higher Tier Offence

• Huge Fines
• Notoriety increase

- Bounty out for player
Fines of at least 200,000 Cr. All the way up to several millions.
And the bounty for killing the player should also match the Fine.

Same reaction to you as the curent WANTED status. Once scanned and/or ID'ed, you will be a legit kill target.

Clearing your Wanted status should be the same. You have to wait tilll your notoriety goes down to 0 and then doing it via Interstellar Factors.
Just remember that fine will be huge.

--------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't this be more realistic?

 

[war4peace]

I never said I didn't make mistakes. I know I did. But they were disproportionately small compared to the punishment, which ultimately prompted me to dispute the implementation of this game mechanic.

 

[ChrisF0001]

Well a 200Cr bounty seems a bit steep to me, anything that low should probably just be a fine, I think.

That said, I'm curious to know how the OP thinks that non-lethal bounty enforcement could possibly be implemented inside the game mechanics, when the only tools that stations / NPCs have is to blow people up. Setting aside the other flaws of the C&P system, there are only two possible penalty types, lethal (bounty) and non-lethal (fine). That's it. If you have a bounty and get scanned where it applies, you get shot. That part is simple enough. I at least don't see any simple alternatives that don't make an already faintly ridiculous system even more complicated.

As to doing missions while carrying loads of exploration data, alt-tabbing away while docking... I'm afraid I can't help but be reminded of the guy a few weeks ago who stacked Elite delivery missions in a shieldless T-9, botched an interdiction, and then complained that the game was broken. If you intentionally take risks, you've got to be prepared to suck up bad consequences.

 

[dxm55]

That said, I'm curious to know how the OP thinks that non-lethal bounty enforcement could possibly be implemented inside the game mechanics, when the only tools that stations / NPCs have is to blow people up. Setting aside the other flaws of the C&P system, there are only two possible penalty types, lethal (bounty) and non-lethal (fine). That's it. If you have a bounty and get scanned where it applies, you get shot. That part is simple enough. I at least don't see any simple alternatives that don't make an already faintly ridiculous system even more complicated.

Easy fix, as I said.

Just do not allow the player to change ships, or undock, until he pays the fine.
Lock him to the station. He/she will be, in effect, under house arrest.
And if he can't pay the fine, the current ship is confiscated without rebuy.

Plus, fines really need to go up too. IRL, fines are meant to hurt your pocket and punish you.
With mining bringing in tens if not hundreds of millions a run, 200 is not even a pinprick.

 

[Factabulous]

I never said I didn't make mistakes. I know I did. But they were disproportionately small compared to the punishment, which ultimately prompted me to dispute the implementation of this game mechanic.

You shot a base - without provocation. You killed innocents caught in that decompressed area of the station. You are a bad man. There are a lot of people in the galaxy willing to kill for a few 100 CR, so they don't need to put a huge price on your head. Killer.

 

[Helvellyn]

You shot a base - without provocation. You killed innocents caught in that decompressed area of the station. You are a bad man. There are a lot of people in the galaxy willing to kill for a few 100 CR, so they don't need to put a huge price on your head. Killer.

If that happened the bounty should be a lot higher, and not for just assault.

 

[Factabulous]

If that happened the bounty should be a lot higher, and not for just assault.

Nope - life is cheap in the ED universe. Economics & all that.

 

[Helvellyn]

Nope - life is cheap in the ED universe. Economics & all that.

The bounty for blowing up a clean NPC is not that cheap though. Anyway, there are the repair costs to the building.

 

[Taskmage]

...
Plus, fines really need to go up too. IRL, fines are meant to hurt your pocket and punish you.
With mining bringing in tens if not hundreds of millions a run, 200 is not even a pinprick.

Depends on how you look at it.
If you compare it to real life:
1 ton of gold in real life costs around $44.000.000.
1 ton of gold in game costs about 9500 credits.
So, judging by this (flawed) logic: 200 credits = 926.316$

If you compare it to other ingame values: 1 ton of "Fruit and vegetables" costs ~400 credits. It would feed an average family for...two years? So we are talking about the food cost for a family for a year. How much do you spend on food each week?

If you compare it to the amount of money we can make in the game, your are right, it is extremly low.

 

[Factabulous]

The bounty for blowing up a clean NPC is not that cheap though. Anyway, there are the repair costs to the building.

Building repairs should be covered by a fine, the bounty is payment to the hired killer for their time. Which is cheap. In this galaxy. It's all RP

Anyway, I need to get off to Chess Club - I plan to try and convince them that Knights should not move in that weird way - I've seen movies and I think they should move like Queens - charging across the board on their mighty steeds - much more like RL! Chess is a game who's rules need to be changed to fit my views

 

[Helvellyn]

Building repairs should be covered by a fine, the bounty is payment to the hired killer for their time. Which is cheap. In this galaxy. It's all RP

The "shooting the building" bounty is assault, not muder - compare with shooting a clean NPC ship.

Anyway, I need to get off to Chess Club - I plan to try and convince them that Knights should not move in that weird way - I've seen movies and I think they should move like Queens - charging across the board on their mighty steeds - much more like RL! Chess is a game who's rules need to be changed to fit my views

The rules of chess have been changed from time to time. Of course chess doesn't have any real pretense to being a battle whilst Elite is having to get by on some suspension of disbelief, it's pretending to fly around spaceships.

 

[4gui4]

I will not even try to understand Frontier's logic , does not make sense to me how FDs like to waste our time.

 

[Factabulous]

Of course chess doesn't have any real pretense to being a battle whilst Elite is having to get by on some suspension of disbelief, it's pretending to fly around spaceships

Chess doesn't have any pretence of being a battle Quote of the day

 

[babelfisch]

And that was where my lack of knowledge worked against me. I was always under the impression that the scan is for cargo only. Even the journal says so...

{
"timestamp": "2019-06-19T11:52:21Z",
"event": "Scanned",
"ScanType": "Cargo"
}

Now, I don't consider myself as "cargo", but hey, FDev certainly thrown me into that category apparently.

No, not really. A basic scan gets always performed when a ship gets targeted.

Yes, but so close to the slot that it really couldn't matter anymore.



Eight seconds, to be more precise.

11 seconds to be more precise, which is plenty of time to turn around and boost away. You can travel 4-6 km in 11 seconds.