200 credits bounty, 250M credits punishment

[babelfisch]

I feel your loss. Really.

I feel that C&P is broken.
The authorities should only be shooting at players who've committed murders. ie. Destruction of another ship, commander or NPC.

Trespass, Assault charges should result in a lower tier Wanted status that will simply manifest itself as a player being unable to leave the station before paying the fine.

That's actually the worst design you could come up with because it doesn't allow players to defend themselves when they get attacked and they wouldn't get any help from authorities either.

Heard that FDEV?
Remember FE2, FDev?? When I had a fine, I could still dock. But the cops would not let me undock without paying it off.

You can always dock when you have a fine. You can even dock when you have a bounty as long as you don't get scanned.

 

[babelfisch]

Happens to all of us I guess.

But on the matter of C&P, I think it has been very crudely implemented by FDev.
Definitely needs a major revamp. It doesn't even need to be difficult.


Trespass (Civilian installations, Starport) > Lower Tier offence

• Fines
• No Bounty / Wanted status

Please go ahead and increase the fines to a few thousands to compensate for this.
Eg.
Trespass - Fine of 20,000 Cr
Speeding - Fine of 5,000 Cr
Assault - Fine of 50,000 Cr
Blocking of Landing Pad or Station entrance for under 30 sec - Fine of 50,000 Cr

You can still enter the station, no need for Anon Access.
But you cannot undock at a station allied to the faction you have offended without paying the fine.
And if he can't pay the fine, the current ship is confiscated without rebuy.
If it's your ONLY SHIP, then you end up with a Sidewinder back at the start point.



-------------------------------------


Murder of NPC/Player, Trespass of Naval ship (Capital ships) exclusion Zone > Higher Tier Offence

• Huge Fines
• Notoriety increase

- Bounty out for player
Fines of at least 200,000 Cr. All the way up to several millions.
And the bounty for killing the player should also match the Fine.

Same reaction to you as the curent WANTED status. Once scanned and/or ID'ed, you will be a legit kill target.

Clearing your Wanted status should be the same. You have to wait tilll your notoriety goes down to 0 and then doing it via Interstellar Factors.
Just remember that fine will be huge.

--------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't this be more realistic?

That doesn't work. The trespass bounties are in place so the game can get rid of players deliberately blocking the station entrance / landing pads. Give that proposal a week in Open play and you'll beg Frontier to restore the current system.

 

[babelfisch]

I never said I didn't make mistakes. I know I did. But they were disproportionately small compared to the punishment, which ultimately prompted me to dispute the implementation of this game mechanic.

Not really. There is no punishment, you basically killed yourself.
You could've just paid the bounty at an IF with 0 danger and 0 punishment. Your exploration data is also completely unrelated because the loss resulted from your failure and not from the crime system.

 

[Backelaer]

Depends on how you look at it.
If you compare it to real life:
1 ton of gold in real life costs around $44.000.000.
1 ton of gold in game costs about 9500 credits.
So, judging by this (flawed) logic: 200 credits = 926.316$

If you compare it to other ingame values: 1 ton of "Fruit and vegetables" costs ~400 credits. It would feed an average family for...two years? So we are talking about the food cost for a family for a year. How much do you spend on food each week?

If you compare it to the amount of money we can make in the game, your are right, it is extremly low.

Well.. gold is a lot more abundant now that we don't have to rely on the tiny stuck in the Earth's crust anymore. I would imagine the price reflects that.

 

[rajziel]

I never said I didn't make mistakes. I know I did. But they were disproportionately small compared to the punishment, which ultimately prompted me to dispute the implementation of this game mechanic.

OK fair enough. I can see your point there
But like most things in game the C&P system is in its crudest form, I assume to be built upon once they have other systems in place.
But until then its very much GTA style justice, eg every crime is punishable by death
I also thought it was impossible to get a 200 credit bounty but I never tested that myself.

But, i'd rather they have this system in place to be built on, rather than no system at all until they implement a finished C&P system, which frankly could take years for Frontier

 

[Drelthar]

Wanted commander get's scanned by the cops and destroyed.

Sorry for your loss, but you comitted a crime which gave you a bounty, and were killed. That's how the games worked from release.

 

[war4peace]

You shot a base - without provocation. You killed innocents caught in that decompressed area of the station. You are a bad man. There are a lot of people in the galaxy willing to kill for a few 100 CR, so they don't need to put a huge price on your head. Killer.

So far it was a civil conversation, but with this you're just trolling.

No, not really. A basic scan gets always performed when a ship gets targeted.

That is the message I received, that is what's in the Journal. Scan for Cargo.

11 seconds to be more precise, which is plenty of time to turn around and boost away. You can travel 4-6 km in 11 seconds.

I suspect you can also run 100 meters in under 10 seconds, because out there there's someone who can.

Not really. There is no punishment, you basically killed yourself.
You could've just paid the bounty at an IF with 0 danger and 0 punishment. Your exploration data is also completely unrelated because the loss resulted from your failure and not from the crime system.

Could, woulda, shoulda. This is how each mishap is analyzed. This doesn't mean the system is perfect and can't improve any further.

That's how the games worked from release.

And that makes it okay, doesn't it. How dare I challenge the old ways?
Good thing people don't think that way, generally speaking. I assume living in a cave isn't pretty.

 

[Juanxlink]

So far it was a civil conversation, but with this you're just trolling.

Someone memed that on page 1, guess that shows how much you care if you just are outraged now.

That is the message I received, that is what's in the Journal. Scan for Cargo.

It also tells you those actiongs might be illegal, but why let fatcs get in the way huh?

I suspect you can also run 100 meters in under 10 seconds, because out there there's someone who can.

So...about that trolling you mentioned before...

Could, woulda, shoulda. This is how each mishap is analyzed. This doesn't mean the system is perfect and can't improve any further.

The system works as is, try and adapt to it, especially when its been pointed out that its your issue, not the C&P system, its your failure to both read, understand and asses the risks involved.

And that makes it okay, doesn't it. How dare I challenge the old ways?
Good thing people don't think that way, generally speaking. I assume living in a cave isn't pretty.

Again, dont try trolling, we can see through you...

 

[babelfisch]

That is the message I received, that is what's in the Journal. Scan for Cargo.

If you would've paid attention you would've heard the scan detected message.

I suspect you can also run 100 meters in under 10 seconds, because out there there's someone who can.

An unengineered Dolphin boosts 400 m/s.

Could, woulda, shoulda. This is how each mishap is analyzed. This doesn't mean the system is perfect and can't improve any further.

Sure, but in order to improve it you would actually need to understand the system.

 

[dxm55]

That doesn't work. The trespass bounties are in place so the game can get rid of players deliberately blocking the station entrance / landing pads. Give that proposal a week in Open play and you'll beg Frontier to restore the current system.

Actually I forgot to add. After blocking a pad or station entrance for 30 secs, they start firing on you. It turns into a kill bounty.
With a bigass fine.

 

[war4peace]

An unengineered Dolphin boosts 400 m/s.

Not as it is entering the station, it doesn't. Try turning around running as fast as you can while moving forward in a narrow tunnel.

This reminds me of US Airways Flight 1549 event investigation. I'm going to quote the relevant part here:

The NTSB used flight simulators to test the possibility that the flight could have returned safely to LaGuardia or diverted to Teterboro; only seven of the thirteen simulated returns to La Guardia succeeded, and only one of the two to Teterboro. Furthermore, the NTSB report called these simulations unrealistic: "The immediate turn made by the pilots during the simulations did not reflect or account for real-world considerations, such as the time delay required to recognize the bird strike and decide on a course of action." A further simulation, in which a 35-second delay was inserted to allow for those, crashed.[2]:50 In testimony before the NTSB, Sullenberger maintained that there had been no time to bring the plane to any airport, and that attempting to do so would likely have killed those onboard and more on the ground.

Now please try and put yourself in my place: a relaxed player, going about his business, surprised by a game mechanic he is not familiar with, confused by the contradiction between previous messages and current ones, there will be a delay of at least 5 seconds until a different course of action is determined. By then, it's too late.

We're not robots, you know...

 

[Northpin]

Still that does not change the fact that you committed a series of mistakes that piled up and culminated with the destruction of your ship.
Not knowing how the game mechanics are working is not an excuse nor it does mean those mechanics are necessarily bad.

I lost an Anaconda and an Elite SLF crew because i was taking screenshots at the exit from an asteroid base. While trying to best angles i drifted in the exclusion zone.
And i got melted. Moved on. Leveled another SLF crew to Elite rank. Lesson learned.

 

[ChrisF0001]

Easy fix, as I said.

Just do not allow the player to change ships, or undock, until he pays the fine.
Lock him to the station. He/she will be, in effect, under house arrest.
And if he can't pay the fine, the current ship is confiscated without rebuy.

An interesting proposal, but that reads like a response to a fine rather than a bounty (as you say yourself). A bounty, according to the dictionary at least, suggests a reward that someone (player, NPC, station? (not that that makes much sense)) gets for doing something to the target. The person with the bounty on them doesn't get to pay it off (not without an IF anyway).

So it feels to me like the underlying problem in this case is more that a 200Cr bounty is a bit ridiculous, rather than that the response to a bounty being discovered was violent.

 

[Kaocraft]

Actually I forgot to add. After blocking a pad or station entrance for 30 secs, they start firing on you. It turns into a kill bounty.
With a bigass fine.

This speaks to a general principle that I would like to see Frontier employ wherever possible: gradation. There can be degrees of something and it doesn't all have to be an on/off switch. A lot of Elite's gameplay could be improved this way, and C&P is no exception.

Loiter at the pad or mail slot for too long and you get fine and a warning, continue and the fines increase, and then you get a bounty and are fired upon if you continue to remain in that spot.

Also so long as we're on this topic I just want to make a general complaint about trespass zones on planetary surfaces: they're dumb and annoying and they don't work well. I would also appreciate some logic be applied to the scanning of data points, destruction of skimmers, etc. It's all an incoherent mess right now and you never know before taking one of these missions what's going to happen when you get to the site.

I would also particularly appreciate if scanning a data point were to incur a fine rather than a bounty, and better yet if there were actually some way to avoid detection when scanning these sites rather than having it automatically just give you the death penalty. And hey I thought bounties were applied to ships and not people, so if I'm in an SRV and my ship has been dismissed, it should become a "hot" SRV and the ship should be clean, no?

OK I'll stop now.

 

[dxm55]

An interesting proposal, but that reads like a response to a fine rather than a bounty (as you say yourself). A bounty, according to the dictionary at least, suggests a reward that someone (player, NPC, station? (not that that makes much sense)) gets for doing something to the target. The person with the bounty on them doesn't get to pay it off (not without an IF anyway).

So it feels to me like the underlying problem in this case is more that a 200Cr bounty is a bit ridiculous, rather than that the response to a bounty being discovered was violent.

But that was what I said. Committing lighter offences that only gives you a fine does not put a bounty on your head.
It only awards you a fine that you have to pay before you can undock from a station in the jurisdiction of the faction that fined you.

You won't have a WANTED status on you at all.

 

[dxm55]

This speaks to a general principle that I would like to see Frontier employ wherever possible: gradation. There can be degrees of something and it doesn't all have to be an on/off switch. A lot of Elite's gameplay could be improved this way, and C&P is no exception.

Loiter at the pad or mail slot for too long and you get fine and a warning, continue and the fines increase, and then you get a bounty and are fired upon if you continue to remain in that spot.

Also so long as we're on this topic I just want to make a general complaint about trespass zones on planetary surfaces: they're dumb and annoying and they don't work well. I would also appreciate some logic be applied to the scanning of data points, destruction of skimmers, etc. It's all an incoherent mess right now and you never know before taking one of these missions what's going to happen when you get to the site.

I would also particularly appreciate if scanning a data point were to incur a fine rather than a bounty, and better yet if there were actually some way to avoid detection when scanning these sites rather than having it automatically just give you the death penalty. And hey I thought bounties were applied to ships and not people, so if I'm in an SRV and my ship has been dismissed, it should become a "hot" SRV and the ship should be clean, no?

OK I'll stop now.

That's why I said that FDev implemented all of this rather crudely.

 

[babelfisch]

Actually I forgot to add. After blocking a pad or station entrance for 30 secs, they start firing on you. It turns into a kill bounty.
With a bigass fine.

That's pretty much how it works currently...

 

[dxm55]

That's pretty much how it works currently...

Except that they don't wait 30 secs. LOL

 

[babelfisch]

Now please try and put yourself in my place: a relaxed player, going about his business, surprised by a game mechanic he is not familiar with, confused by the contradiction between previous messages and current ones, there will be a delay of at least 5 seconds until a different course of action is determined. By then, it's too late.

We're not robots, you know...

I don't blame you for making mistakes, we are all human. I blame you for blaming the game for your mistakes.

 

[dxm55]

I don't blame you for making mistakes, we are all human. I blame you for blaming the game for your mistakes.

Oooh... touche.