Notoriety is just no fun

[Jukelo]

Not at all. Not in the slightest.
I pay for the privilege to play the game. NPCs don't. I have limited amounts of time to play the game, NPCs dont. I play to enjoy my time with Elite, NPCs are just scripts.
Fundamentally different.

The vast majority of games take this approach and focus solely on the player. If that is precisely and exclusively what you want, why then would you pick and buy one of the few games that doesn't? David himself said it's less a game and more a game world first with gameplay added on top.

I guess the issue is the game s trying to be all things to all people. BGS is a global influence, but killing 6 NPCs is hardly going to change the course of the universe and yet I'm punished for 12 hours. Completely over the top. That's all, just excessive.
Like I said, and you ignored, can kill 10 million NPCs in anarchy systems and nobody bats an eyelid.

Killing 6 NPCs isn't goingto change the course of the universe, but it shows that your character is a bad actor within that universe. And you can kill 10 million NPCs in anarchy systems because there is no law there.

 

[Jmanis]

My CMDR is doing this right now.

Just the other day, I actually managed to get my Viper shot down by ATR after killing two dozen system security and had a laugh over how I was immediately back in action after paying a measly 1.5 million CR fine...for the murder of dozens of police and inflicting billions of credits of property damage.

The notoriety is barely an inconvenience and disproportionately lenient relative to the crime.

And yet, that's still more difficult than what it used to be Not saying I disagree with your sentiment.... my point is just it's not "hard", just "harder".

Anyways... quoting myself ftw:

EDIT: Have some other things to add in a bit which you might find interesting, but I can't post for a bit.

Can actually write again now (obvs)... and here's the thing.

Like I said, and you ignored, can kill 10 million NPCs in anarchy systems and nobody bats an eyelid.

Kill 10m NPCs in the right system at the right time and everyone bats an eyelid... and there's a whole subforum of people who care about NPCs and what happens to them.

I think you're missing the point why killing NPCs arbitrarily earns you notoriety... thing is, your issue has some merits, but removing notoriety as it currently functions from killing NPCs isn't one of them.

One of your problems is that you winged-up with someone who was running missions to help them with them, without actually having them shared with you/were non-wing missions. I personally think there's a strong argument that wing missions shouldn't exist, and mission rewards/conditions should just be automatically shared among wingmates. That would actually have fixed your problem entirely as they would've been mission targets and not just random NPCs.

You have general problems with Notoriety. While it should have impact on continued lawful conduct, it should have benefits when it comes to the pursuit of further criminal activities... something which I wrote about here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forums/elite-dangerous-background-sim/ tl;dr "Good people" should be able to wash themselves of more minor crimes (which yours wasn't really...) while "bad guys" have new doors open for them at certain levels of notoriety, which could've been interesting for you.

In other words, there's an imbalance of "Crime" against "Punishment" right now... but you don't fix that by reducing the punishment, you fix it by increasing the rewards of crime. Borrowing Mangal Oemie's chart...

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/bHNMm7P

Source: https://i.imgur.com/bHNMm7P.png

That's over 6000 positive economic states versus a couple hundred negative ones, and 1700-odd positive security states compared to a hundred negative ones, and no instances of Lockdown or Famine in the universe at that time. There's again a significant argument that the game needs more incentive for negative-effect behaviours, but removing the punishments isn't how you do that.

So, yeah, I think there are problems which brought us to this point, but the fact you got notoriety for killing a bunch of NPCs not relevant (in terms of the current game mechanics) to your activity isn't one of them.

Like your topic says... "Notoriety is no fun"... I can get behind that... but that's not fixed by making you receive notoriety for pointless criminal acts.

 

[Midian Cabal]

Not at all. Not in the slightest.
I pay for the privilege to play the game. NPCs don't. I have limited amounts of time to play the game, NPCs dont. I play to enjoy my time with Elite, NPCs are just scripts.
Fundamentally different.


I guess the issue is the game s trying to be all things to all people. BGS is a global influence, but killing 6 NPCs is hardly going to change the course of the universe and yet I'm punished for 12 hours. Completely over the top. That's all, just excessive.
Like I said, and you ignored, can kill 10 million NPCs in anarchy systems and nobody bats an eyelid.

In this game NPCs and players have equal rights and are treated equally.
If you want to feel privileged, maybe this game isn't for you.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Not at all. Not in the slightest.
I pay for the privilege to play the game. NPCs don't. I have limited amounts of time to play the game, NPCs dont. I play to enjoy my time with Elite, NPCs are just scripts.
Fundamentally different.


I guess the issue is the game s trying to be all things to all people. BGS is a global influence, but killing 6 NPCs is hardly going to change the course of the universe and yet I'm punished for 12 hours. Completely over the top. That's all, just excessive.
Like I said, and you ignored, can kill 10 million NPCs in anarchy systems and nobody bats an eyelid.

Be it NPC or Player, blowing up other ships is likely to raise a bounty and notoriety on your ship, it's the way the game plays - be like the rest of us and just get on with things that allows the negative rep to bleed away, however long it takes.

If it bothers you that much, spend a couple of hours in the ship with a bounty, doing something risk-free then change back to another 'clean' ship for 'normal' fun. It'll balance out after a while.

Paying for the 'privelege' of playing - I think we all paid for the game somewhere along the line...

 

[Bionic Bytes]

I think you're missing the point why killing NPCs arbitrarily earns you notoriety... thing is, your issue has some merits, but removing notoriety as it currently functions from killing NPCs isn't one of them.

Never said remove notoriety, just said that 12 hours of punishment for 6 NPCs was excessive. I suggested 10 mins per kill would be sufficient for most casual players. Perhaps for hard core BGS players that doesn't seem like enough. Open for debate.

One of your problems is that you winged-up with someone who was running missions to help them with them, without actually having them shared with you/were non-wing missions. I personally think there's a strong argument that wing missions shouldn't exist, and mission rewards/conditions should just be automatically shared among wingmates. That would actually have fixed your problem entirely as they would've been mission targets and not just random NPCs.

Yes, agree with you.

When I joined the multiplayer wing I just wanted a quick blast / quick fix. Didn't stop to think about the poor NPC community loosing a valued member and a father of 3 children.

 

[galahad2069]

In this game NPCs and players have equal rights and are treated equally.
If you want to feel privileged, maybe this game isn't for you.

Should we call them 'Loretta'?

 

[DNA-Decay]

I couldn’t make it to Notoriety 10 just on PvP kills.

Most folks I killed are Fed pledges anyways so I think they’re legit targets.

Notoriety needs to count NPC kills or you’ll never acquire any.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

I break Murphy's law all the time. Sue me.

You don't break Murphy's law by breaking Murphy's law. You break Murphy's law in accordance to Murphy's law.

 

[d8veh]

Use the opportunity to go prospecting in your SRV for engineer materials. Nobody bothers about your notoriety on the planet surface.

 

[MDHansen]

I've been playing for 3 years, so not a newbie. I want to play my own way, but notoriety prevents that and for what? a few NPC ships which were 'targets' in a spec ops mission.

Like I said, I don't mind a sin bin for 10 mins for each NPC homicide, but 10 hours of continuous harassment for killing 6 ships is way too much. Just kills enjoyment.

The current C&P system prevents the pirate / assassin career path in Elite and I don't think it works.

People are putting way, way too much weight in to this socalled play it my way. You're half right though, but it's more "play it your way with the groundrules laid out by the game(devs)"
The answer to not being "harrassed" for killing 6 ships is not to kill 6 ships...(phew, did I say that out loud?) You can still play the game your way, but if your way is killing 6 ships, then you have to face the consequences.


MDH

P.S. If you got notoriety for killing ships in a spec ops mission, then report it, it is a bug. You will get bounty, but not notoriety.
P.P.S. I'm unsure if this also is true if killing targets outside of the mission SS.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

....
And you can kill 10 million NPCs in anarchy systems because there is no law there.

Without ship prices making a budge - it's quite ridiculous.

 

[Bionic Bytes]

You can still play the game your way, but if your way is killing 6 ships, then you have to face the consequences.


MDH

P.S. If you got notoriety for killing ships in a spec ops mission, then report it, it is a bug. You will get bounty, but not notoriety.
P.P.S. I'm unsure if this also is true if killing targets outside of the mission SS.

I think we're all OK with the notoriety, because ultimately I killed clean non-mission related targets because my wing mate either didn't understand or mixed up the mission targets.
What I think is over the top, is the 12 hour cool down for doing so.
I would like to see a 10 minute cool down per notoriety level for each NPC killed, and keep the current timer for PvP kills.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I've been playing for 3 years, so not a newbie. I want to play my own way, but notoriety prevents that and for what? a few NPC ships which were 'targets' in a spec ops mission.

Like I said, I don't mind a sin bin for 10 mins for each NPC homicide, but 10 hours of continuous harassment for killing 6 ships is way too much. Just kills enjoyment.

The current C&P system prevents the pirate / assassin career path in Elite and I don't think it works.

Err, it doesn't prevent those career paths. You are asking for those careers to have less negative consequences, that is something entirely different.

 

[Bionic Bytes]

Err, it doesn't prevent those career paths.

Perhaps I should be more careful with words. When I say prevent I don't mean that entirely. I was trying to say hinder, gets in the way, interferes.
Maybe for some they actually like that. For me it effectively prevents me from playing the way I want to play. Fair enough as a punishment I suppose.
However, to continue to punish for 12 hours (for the crime of 6 NPC kills) is where I beg to differ.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Perhaps I should be more careful with words. When I say prevent I don't mean that entirely. I was trying to say hinder, gets in the way, interferes.
Maybe for some they actually like that. For me it effectively prevents me from playing the way I want to play. Fair enough as a punishment I suppose.
However, to continue to punish for 12 hours (for the crime of 6 NPC kills) is where I beg to differ.

But the very concept of being a career assassin demands such consequences, and to an assassin it wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that you want to take up assassinating innocent civilians as a part-time job or hobby, without it impacting the rest of your career.

I can understand why that would be more fun to you, but I am also sure you understand it isn't completely reasonable to ask or expect that. Murder = bad.

Even when you only 'murder a few folks occasionally".

 

[Bionic Bytes]

But the very concept of being a career assassin demands such consequences, and to an assassin it wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that you want to take up assassinating innocent civilians as a part-time job or hobby, without it impacting the rest of your career.

well I can't argue against that. It's true, you have exposed me. I confess!

 

[Ian Skippy]

well I can't argue against that. It's true, you have exposed me. I confess!

 

[Krash]

I can kill 30 NPCs per hour and get 0 notoriety. Should I feel guilty about that?

 

[dekot]

I remember being excited and hopeful when they first announced C&P changes and when they got tons of great suggestions and feedback on those dedicated forums. I actually thought they would implement overhauls to make npc piracy and smuggling systems viable and interesting career paths....

But oh yeah, this is FD.

 

[Helvellyn]

Perhaps I should be more careful with words. When I say prevent I don't mean that entirely. I was trying to say hinder, gets in the way, interferes.
Maybe for some they actually like that. For me it effectively prevents me from playing the way I want to play. Fair enough as a punishment I suppose.
However, to continue to punish for 12 hours (for the crime of 6 NPC kills) is where I beg to differ.

Part of any game is consequences for actions. It would be a shallow game indeed if you could do whatever you wanted in-game consequence-free. You, the player, is not being punished, your in-game avatar is. Just part of trying to bring a bit of verisimilitude to the game universe. There obviously has to be some leeway in that (because an effective game over due to being locked up for life would really be pushing things far too far) so there's scope for debate about how to balance all of that out but you're really coming across as essentially asking for no in-game consequences (by making them so trivial that they would be).