As a career 'freedom fighter' with a total accumulated bounty of over three billion on my main ship and (usually) a notoriety of 10 my view is that the present C&P works pretty well in giving consequence to the actions of people like me, my preferred vessel now has a lot of ports, including the whole of the Federation, that are out of bounds, refitting modules/weapons etc can also be an expensive business without mentioning the constant irritation of NPC bounty hunters trying to interdict me (though disappointingly few players have taken a pop). The new C&P doesn't stop my chosen activities but it does mean I have to be careful where I operate and how I go about it, plus if anyone does manage to take me out (Corvette named Resolution for anyone interested) it will hurt. A lot. All in all C&P is IMHO not bad at all and certainly a big improvement on what went before, and frankly, if you're getting a price on your head for hitting clean ships then be more careful with your guns or find an ISF and pay it off pronto.
Bounties need to be tied to CMDR, not ship
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Hu t
Submits Community Goal
"Killing Jellicoe"
On the bright side, at least you are unwelcome in the Federation!
Hu t
Submits Community Goal
"Killing Jellicoe"
On the bright side, at least you are unwelcome in the Federation!
FDev MAKE THIS HAPPEN!
aaaaaaaaand the assumptions fly, as usual. In retrospect, I recognize the mistake in my post: using the word "intention" instead of "definition." I see how that led to misinterpretation. As for watching my goddamn fire, well...I do. I watch it all the time. The problem is that other ships goddamn don't and I GET PUNISHED FOR THEIR CARELESSNESS. If I'm going down the freeway, decide to change lanes, look around, flip my turn signal, make my move nice and easy and some BLIND D*%&WAD decides that NOW is the time to cut me off and hits me, THAT IS NOT MY GODDAMN FAULT. In ED, however, the game decides it most certainly is. That's under-my-skin issue number one. I've been playing flight sims and more arcadey games alike for DECADES; I was born in 1982 and I LITERALLY grew up with the videogame industry. I KNOW HOW TO WATCH MY GODDAMN FIRE.
Number two is that while I'm getting my gameplay derailed for something that I practice constant vigil to prevent and STILL get punished for, intentional criminals are having the time of their life tearing up the galaxy and erasing the consequences of their actions with a simple trip to the Factor. I don't mind the first part of their fun at all and in fact am glad they're having fun; it's the second part that bugs me. Bounties are a literal murder-switch that criminals can rack up for lolz and then dump as soon as they're inconvenient. They're levied against regular players for FAR too minor a crime FAR too often and they start at absolutely laughable amounts. I mean come on; a 1000cr bounty? WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD RISK THEIR SHIP FOR A THOUSAND BLOODY CREDITS??? That barely fills a fuel tank on some bigger ships! Who would even BOTHER?
Oh. Wait. An entire galaxy full of suicidal NPC lemmings who can't tell the difference between a stray bullet and a mass murderer, that's who. Guess what? The mass murderer is forgiven and forgotten just as fast as the unfortunate bounty hunter (irony?) who happened to see a cop fly in front of his torpedo just before it impacts the ACTUAL MASS MURDERING CRIMINAL.
That is in no way a good representation of a "bounty." A "bounty" is a lucrative price tag a rich person places on the head of someone who's ROYALLY ed them off for the LAST TIME. Even in my very first sidey I didn't bother with 1000 credit bounties; I doubt anyone did. it's insulting to hunters, criminals and clean CMDRs alike. Anything less than a five digit bounty is outright stupid; anything less than six digits is probably overlooked by a lot of us in the first place.
Then there's "notoriety." Where do I even begin with this one...Notoriety by definition is a negative reputation. It affects the way people view you and impacts your dealings with them due to their hesitation to do business with you, trust you, allow you privileges, etc. In ED, however, it does none of these things. A bounty makes you an outcast and notoriety simply puts a timer on how long you have to STAY an outcast ("because your blood money's no good to us for aboooooout another hour")...before you again instantly erase your sins from the collective memory of the galaxy. It's incredibly binary and neither fun nor rewarding for criminal players or clean ones. It's literally just a timer on top of a bounty. If you WANT to clear your bounty, notoriety just says "nope, not yet" and makes you sit around WAITING. If you LIKE staying away from stations and never being able to dock then you don't care. It's either a complete waste of your time or a complete non-factor. How is that good design? I get what Fdev was going for when they introduced this system and it DID solve some specific problems they wanted to address, but it still fails on so many levels it's baffling.
First off, take a chill pill and a big step back. Plenty of people handle this no problem and that's just a fact.
What's your build? What weapons do you like to use? Can you post a link for Coriolis or EDShipyard? Any videos of your flying? Where do you typically go for combat related stuff?
I guarantee posters here can find something to help make you a better pilot and make C and P less of an issue for you.
But that's the thing: it really is you, not the game. C and P is pretty straight forward to deal with once you learn the mechanics.
So you're on the fence then?
With this being a SUGGESTION thread would you have ANY alternative ideas?
I WAS born in 75 SO my video gaming EXPERIENCE outranks yours and I think those EXTRA years qualify me for some maturity which SEEMS to be lacking in your response.
Allow me to address what I think are the main points of your argument.
1) You say you know how to watch your fire.
Then why are you getting a bounty?
2) Suicidal lemming NPC who can't tell the difference between a stray bullet and a mass murderer.
Stray bullets don't give you bounties. Targeted fire which repeatedly hits a friendly ship will. See point one above.
3) Torpedo striking a police man.
I'm going to test this one. But given Torps are known for flying very slowly and are literally one shot, expensive weapons I suspect they aren't the best weapon to be used when Bounty hunting. In fact using them indicates a surprising lack of experience for someone who GREW UP IN THE ( I can't be bothered shouting anymore. It's childish. ) Video games industry.
4) Notoriety. There is an in game cost to your actions. This is a cost of resources (credits) and in more serious cases your time. There is a third cost to the action of murder which is the impact it has upon the local BGS. Notoriety prevents you from enjoying the services of the local station where the bounty was issued. It does not prevent you from enjoying other stations. In fact all you have to do is switch ships and go play nice for a while.
It really isn't the end of the world.
With this being a SUGGESTION thread would you have ANY alternative ideas?
I WAS born in 75 SO my video gaming EXPERIENCE outranks yours and I think those EXTRA years qualify me for some maturity which SEEMS to be lacking in your response.
Allow me to address what I think are the main points of your argument.
1) You say you know how to watch your fire.
Then why are you getting a bounty?
2) Suicidal lemming NPC who can't tell the difference between a stray bullet and a mass murderer.
Stray bullets don't give you bounties. Targeted fire which repeatedly hits a friendly ship will. See point one above.
3) Torpedo striking a police man.
I'm going to test this one. But given Torps are known for flying very slowly and are literally one shot, expensive weapons I suspect they aren't the best weapon to be used when Bounty hunting. In fact using them indicates a surprising lack of experience for someone who GREW UP IN THE ( I can't be bothered shouting anymore. It's childish. ) Video games industry.
4) Notoriety. There is an in game cost to your actions. This is a cost of resources (credits) and in more serious cases your time. There is a third cost to the action of murder which is the impact it has upon the local BGS. Notoriety prevents you from enjoying the services of the local station where the bounty was issued. It does not prevent you from enjoying other stations. In fact all you have to do is switch ships and go play nice for a while.
It really isn't the end of the world.
This topic will resurface with Elite Feet.
CMDR shoots someone in FPS mode on foot in an Outpost and flees.
Does the first ship they get into take the heat?
Or does the CMDR get some criminal status personally?
CMDR steals a ship... maybe status should belong with the ship, but if they sell it at a pirate base maybe something should be tagged to the CMDR as well.
Hope FD are re-thinking C&P for the new era.
CMDR shoots someone in FPS mode on foot in an Outpost and flees.
Does the first ship they get into take the heat?
Or does the CMDR get some criminal status personally?
CMDR steals a ship... maybe status should belong with the ship, but if they sell it at a pirate base maybe something should be tagged to the CMDR as well.
Hope FD are re-thinking C&P for the new era.
@Phisto: build and flying style are irrelevant. I KNOW bounties can happen. I go OUT OF MY WAY to prevent them. The NPC's, in turn, go OUT OF THEIR WAY to cause them. I'm perfectly aware how many pilots CLAIM to watch their fire but really don't. I find those people amusing and sad. I'm not complaining about it for my sake. I know at worst it's a trip to the IF. It's annoying, but not just for me. I argue it because it doesn't MAKE SENSE and has no proportion or scale. It's completely nonsensical.
@Ouberos: don't even start the age/maturity game, buddy. I'm not here to play "who's got the oldest D#&!" with you. The point is I'm not some whiny preenie who can't handle a flight stick. When my shot is clear, I fire and an NPC gets in my way and I get a bounty, I get a bit P I S S ed (seriously, screw censorship) because I did everything in my power to prevent that bounty and the game caused it anyway. I know when I screw up. I know when I LET a situation happen that causes a bounty and you know what? I don't complain about those times. I grit my teeth, mentally punch myself for doing something stupid and deal with it. I'm not referring to those times. I'm referring to the times (thankfully quite rare) when someone fires a shot that was clear but an NPC decided to cross their bow at just the wrong instant and the player is the one who pays the price. It's not always me it happens to; I speak for everyone who's ever been screwed by this system, whether they got away from the dozen or so cops that now want them dead or had to rebuy an entire ship because of some lemming decided now was the perfect to go "HAY GUYZ I CAN HAZ HOLE IN MAH HULL?" and suddenly you're wanted dead. It's binary. It's 0-100 for a clear accident that the firer did not cause. If I target a cop and unload a rack of missiles into him, then SURE I expect a hornet's nest aimed at my sphincter. If I crosshair a criminal, fire off a volley of bullets at a distant target and a nearby cop decides to turn into it like a MORON, I have issues with suddenly becoming public enemy number one.
As for notoriety? It's honestly a joke. Like I said, it's literally nothing but a timer on your bounty. That's not what notoriety is or ought to be. I don't even say that one from the perspective of the "honest pilot who had an accident" either; I'm not that idiotic. I say that from the "potential pirate/murderer who might wonder why the galaxy suddenly forgot he exists because of an arbitrary timer" perspective. What's the point of "notoriety" if it doesn't last or have any real effect when you DO deal with people? It's about as far from the definition of "notoriety" as the game can go and it's kind of lame. It's not really much incentive to set you on a criminal career path because it can all just be erased by waiting, switching ships or dropping a little cash. Hardly a satisfying simulation of the criminal power fantasy I'd say.
You want suggestions though? I've made a few, though not necessarily in this thread (good luck finding them; this forum system is a bit of a mess IMHO.) First off, bounties should be far more rare and far more important. A BOUNTY is what someone places on your head when they are fed up with your S*%& and want you extra bloody dead. It simultaneously makes me laugh, groan and roll my eyes to see a three-digit bounty. bounties ought to START at 10,000 and up; otherwise who would bother risking their ship? That won't even kit out a sidewinder!
Notoriety should act as a sort of force multiplier for the galaxy's general response to your criminal acts and it should NOT go away as soon as a bounty is paid or collected. Newbie murders a clean? 10,000 bounty. Veteran murders his hundredth one in the same day? Notoriety's built up by now; he should AT LEAST be in the six digit bounties, maybe even in the millions, depending on who he's blasted and what ships they were flying. By this time, paying off that bounty shouldn't even be an OPTION. Sec ships should be patrolling systems he's hit like HAWKS and they should be shooting to kill, no questions asked. Notoriety should be a gradual spread of increased hostility against the player, not some stupid timer. Even after you're "clean" you should be known as a criminal and security should be watching you. People should be worried about dealing with you, hesitant to offer you things and slow to trust you because you are a known violent criminal. Of course, people who LIKE that kind of criminal may of course enjoy sending you to do more of the same dirty work, but your notoriety should have a lasting effect on people.
As in life, a bounty should be reflective of not only the degree of atrocity of the target, but also the DANGER involved in taking him down. A career criminal in, say, a corvette should be worth a fair sight more than one in an adder because of the sheer risk and difficulty involved in taking him down. Notoriety would obviously affect all future bounties placed on a repeat offender and generally make the galaxy more eager to send the big guns after them. Also, NPC's need to have just the slightest bite-sized nibble of common sense for this same reason. After an assassination mission on a clean target I can't count the number of eagles, diamondbacks and other low-grade ships that would come after me...and I'm in a highly engineered FDL or Annie--you know, a heavily armed, extremely dangerous warship. They stand no chance and have no business coming after me. If they came in with a wing of four? I could MAYBE see it being worth the risk for some of them...maybe, but a lone small NPC should NOT be trying to interdict me in such a scenario. Shouldn't even be happening. Even if they DO engage, even the DULLEST pilot should be seriously considering turning tail and jumping when said criminal vaporises their shields in the first two seconds of combat. I sure would...and I used to kill Annies in my Cobra before Horizons.
My gripe with C&P is not that it inconveniences me. Given my venomous tone towards it one could be forgiven for thinking so, but it's not the case. My problem is that it does almost exactly the opposite of what it ought to do or could do to add depth and reactivity to the game--two things of which ED sorely needs more. Not just for me but for everyone. This includes those who, like me, get frustrated at being punished for someone else's mistake and those who want to play the other side but really don't get anything out of it. It's wasted potential in its current form and could open massive doors to new content and playstyles if designed with some forethought in mind. I mean when's the last time you actually went out hunting a criminal CMDR specifically for the bounty? When's the last time it sounded even remotely worth the effort? 90% of the time it's probably not worth the trip. What about would-be pirates? They don't do it for the money. Gods know there are better ways to make money by orders of magnitude, so the RP giggles are all they get...but what if it weren't so? What if there were legit, compelling reasons to go down the criminal path...and real reasons to hunt those who do?
@Ouberos: don't even start the age/maturity game, buddy. I'm not here to play "who's got the oldest D#&!" with you. The point is I'm not some whiny preenie who can't handle a flight stick. When my shot is clear, I fire and an NPC gets in my way and I get a bounty, I get a bit P I S S ed (seriously, screw censorship) because I did everything in my power to prevent that bounty and the game caused it anyway. I know when I screw up. I know when I LET a situation happen that causes a bounty and you know what? I don't complain about those times. I grit my teeth, mentally punch myself for doing something stupid and deal with it. I'm not referring to those times. I'm referring to the times (thankfully quite rare) when someone fires a shot that was clear but an NPC decided to cross their bow at just the wrong instant and the player is the one who pays the price. It's not always me it happens to; I speak for everyone who's ever been screwed by this system, whether they got away from the dozen or so cops that now want them dead or had to rebuy an entire ship because of some lemming decided now was the perfect to go "HAY GUYZ I CAN HAZ HOLE IN MAH HULL?" and suddenly you're wanted dead. It's binary. It's 0-100 for a clear accident that the firer did not cause. If I target a cop and unload a rack of missiles into him, then SURE I expect a hornet's nest aimed at my sphincter. If I crosshair a criminal, fire off a volley of bullets at a distant target and a nearby cop decides to turn into it like a MORON, I have issues with suddenly becoming public enemy number one.
As for notoriety? It's honestly a joke. Like I said, it's literally nothing but a timer on your bounty. That's not what notoriety is or ought to be. I don't even say that one from the perspective of the "honest pilot who had an accident" either; I'm not that idiotic. I say that from the "potential pirate/murderer who might wonder why the galaxy suddenly forgot he exists because of an arbitrary timer" perspective. What's the point of "notoriety" if it doesn't last or have any real effect when you DO deal with people? It's about as far from the definition of "notoriety" as the game can go and it's kind of lame. It's not really much incentive to set you on a criminal career path because it can all just be erased by waiting, switching ships or dropping a little cash. Hardly a satisfying simulation of the criminal power fantasy I'd say.
You want suggestions though? I've made a few, though not necessarily in this thread (good luck finding them; this forum system is a bit of a mess IMHO.) First off, bounties should be far more rare and far more important. A BOUNTY is what someone places on your head when they are fed up with your S*%& and want you extra bloody dead. It simultaneously makes me laugh, groan and roll my eyes to see a three-digit bounty. bounties ought to START at 10,000 and up; otherwise who would bother risking their ship? That won't even kit out a sidewinder!
Notoriety should act as a sort of force multiplier for the galaxy's general response to your criminal acts and it should NOT go away as soon as a bounty is paid or collected. Newbie murders a clean? 10,000 bounty. Veteran murders his hundredth one in the same day? Notoriety's built up by now; he should AT LEAST be in the six digit bounties, maybe even in the millions, depending on who he's blasted and what ships they were flying. By this time, paying off that bounty shouldn't even be an OPTION. Sec ships should be patrolling systems he's hit like HAWKS and they should be shooting to kill, no questions asked. Notoriety should be a gradual spread of increased hostility against the player, not some stupid timer. Even after you're "clean" you should be known as a criminal and security should be watching you. People should be worried about dealing with you, hesitant to offer you things and slow to trust you because you are a known violent criminal. Of course, people who LIKE that kind of criminal may of course enjoy sending you to do more of the same dirty work, but your notoriety should have a lasting effect on people.
As in life, a bounty should be reflective of not only the degree of atrocity of the target, but also the DANGER involved in taking him down. A career criminal in, say, a corvette should be worth a fair sight more than one in an adder because of the sheer risk and difficulty involved in taking him down. Notoriety would obviously affect all future bounties placed on a repeat offender and generally make the galaxy more eager to send the big guns after them. Also, NPC's need to have just the slightest bite-sized nibble of common sense for this same reason. After an assassination mission on a clean target I can't count the number of eagles, diamondbacks and other low-grade ships that would come after me...and I'm in a highly engineered FDL or Annie--you know, a heavily armed, extremely dangerous warship. They stand no chance and have no business coming after me. If they came in with a wing of four? I could MAYBE see it being worth the risk for some of them...maybe, but a lone small NPC should NOT be trying to interdict me in such a scenario. Shouldn't even be happening. Even if they DO engage, even the DULLEST pilot should be seriously considering turning tail and jumping when said criminal vaporises their shields in the first two seconds of combat. I sure would...and I used to kill Annies in my Cobra before Horizons.
My gripe with C&P is not that it inconveniences me. Given my venomous tone towards it one could be forgiven for thinking so, but it's not the case. My problem is that it does almost exactly the opposite of what it ought to do or could do to add depth and reactivity to the game--two things of which ED sorely needs more. Not just for me but for everyone. This includes those who, like me, get frustrated at being punished for someone else's mistake and those who want to play the other side but really don't get anything out of it. It's wasted potential in its current form and could open massive doors to new content and playstyles if designed with some forethought in mind. I mean when's the last time you actually went out hunting a criminal CMDR specifically for the bounty? When's the last time it sounded even remotely worth the effort? 90% of the time it's probably not worth the trip. What about would-be pirates? They don't do it for the money. Gods know there are better ways to make money by orders of magnitude, so the RP giggles are all they get...but what if it weren't so? What if there were legit, compelling reasons to go down the criminal path...and real reasons to hunt those who do?
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Then how come I have no problems with friendly fire and you do?
Agree, given the size of the new bounties I'm certainly not going to eat the kind of rebuy my current ship has to donate credits to a mate, if a player can get me I'd be quite happy for them to collect the lot.
