How feasible are Thargoids science wise?

Basing this around this concept art picture I've seen floating around the webz for some time. I've no idea if it's official/real or random fan art.
IIGBIpp.jpg

I'm no expert in evolutionary biology and the likes so I've been thinking, how likely would it be for hive-mind "insects" to evolve into a space faring species? What effects would such evolution have on their anatomy, physiology and such? How would their biomechanics define/affect the design language of their tools, vehicles, ships and so on? What would their cities look like? Do they have cities as such? What means of transport they used before space travel? Would they even need to travel, all being one mind, thus everyone being everywhere, what purpose would traveling serve? No need to visit in-laws.. Being a hive-mind, would they wear clothes/accessories to indicate their place in society? Would they have any kind of culture - arts, crafts, music, fashion, popular?

And to backtrack a little, what kind of conditions should the Thargoid homeworld have to even support man-sized insects? If they are indeed insectoids of some kind. Then again it's said that they "are experts in bioengineering, so they may have augmented their own biology to a point where natural evolutionary processes are meaningless." In that light, the above picture would be way off as they'd probably resemble a machine more than anything organic and that basically renders this whole post moot. But I'll keep it because I'm typing this little paragraph after I typed everything else, lol.
But hey, we can discuss and speculate what would make scientifically feasible alien species in general. Not just Thargoids.

Anyway, one attribute that's been credited for human race's advance from tree branches to where we are now is our hand. More precisely, the fact that we can touch our pinkies with our thumbs, something no other primate can do, allowing the use of fine motor skills required to do small movements, pick up and hold small things, handle tools and do any kind of precision work. Looking at the picture above, I think dude with appendages like that isn't going to build anything too complicated anytime soon. The stance lacks intelligence, too. Just slouching on its four legs, hands hanging limp. Not poised at all (that of course could be on the artist for not putting effort to pose his/her creation). But still, imagine that dude working in a lab, doing RNA splicing or some such. Doesn't really cut it, does it? Speaking of laboratories. What about computers? Would hive-mind race even need them or would they just store everything in their collective mind.

It's actually the one thing that irks me in scifi games and movies. The weird looking alien species just for the sake of looking weird. All kinds of spikes and tentacles sticking out of their bodies and what not, yet none of it seem to serve any purpose other than to look alien. But then for some reason, no matter how tentacly and blobby the alien in question is, all their equipment, weapons and spacecrafts somehow seem to be designed to be operated by a two legged, two armed hominid with five digits in each appendage. How peculiar.
Anyway, I'd imagine their evolution would work the same as ours and remove features that are no longer needed. Insectoid races would probably lose chitin in their exoskeletons over time after learning they could make their own and wear them for even more protection and so on. Basically, the more advanced the race, the less features their bodies would have. At least that would be my uneducated logic.
 
Some interesting questions there, and some interesting points too.

WRT their dexterity, I'll hold back - it appears that the creature has three digits per limb for their 'small' arms, but certainly have opposable thumbs. However, that is only one picture - that could be, for example, a worker. There could be other types. If insectoid, they could have a queen - and possibly, other forms such as warrior, builder etc. that might each have very different limb-types.

However, one thing your post did do was make me think that actually, these things do not actually look like insects! They do not appear to have exo-skeletons as such - there are no socket/ball joints on their limbs, and their necks appear to have muscles.

I'll hand it over to the evolutionary biologists in this forum from here...
 
Ammonia as the apparent solvent in their biology is the most curios aspect of them from a exobiology standpoint. I'll have to as my wife what she thinks about it, but I know that we are currently predicting and discovering new life, on Earth, by looking wherever thermodynamically feasible chemistries exist...almost invariably, if there is a way to extract net chemical energy from it, something has evolved to live off it. If there are any such feasible biochemistries that could occur with ammonia as the solvent, that's all I'd need to know to consider Thargoids plenty plausible enough.

In that light, the above picture would be way off as they'd probably resemble a machine more than anything organic and that basically renders this whole post moot.

I think organic vs. machine is ultimately a false dichotomy and either can be described in terms originally used for the former.

However, one thing your post did do was make me think that actually, these things do not actually look like insects!

I wouldn't expect a true extraterrestrial organism, that evolved independently from any higher life on Earth, to fit nicely into any of our current taxonomic systems.
 
Also, in a game of faster-then-light travel those are your problems? Have you seen some creatures this planet produces?
Didn't mean it as a "problem", more like a food for thought. But yeah, I know the creatures we have here on Earth, but in terms of conscious, intelligent beings capable of thinking, creating things and so on. I doubt sea cucumbers are going to be building underwater railroads anytime soon.
 
Well, basic chaos theory suggests that in an infinite universe there can be infinite diversity.
Whether or not our universe (or the ED one) is actually "infinite" or not is another matter....

From a biological POV, I understand that there's a limit on the possible size of any creature with an exo-skeleton.
Basically, there comes a point where (depending on gravity) a creature can't fit sufficient muscles inside an exo-skeleton which will be strong enough to move it around.
Evolution limits things like Japanese Spider Crabs by ensuring that the largest ones are also relatively weak so they're not so likely to reproduce and pass on their genes.

Incidentally, on a related note, there are wacky theories which suggest that the apparent existence of giant prehistoric insects suggests that Earth's gravity has increased significantly at some point in the past.
Trouble is, most of these theories involve events which would have knocked lumps off the Earth; presumably decreasing it's gravity rather than increasing it.
For it to work, the Earth would, perhaps, have had to be larger, or less dense, than it currently is and some prehistoric event either reduced the size of the planet by dislodging massive amounts of lightweight matter or something deposited significant quantities of heavy matter.
Interesting stuff to read about though.

Having said all that, from the pictures it's not really clear whether the 'goids are supposed to be creatures with an exo-skeleton.
If they are, I guess it could be argued that they evolved on a planet with low gravity, thus allowing them to grow to a significant size, and then developed a means of augmenting their muscle-strength for living in higher gravity environments.
 
Thargoids are 'insectoid' (insect-looking) but that's about as far as you can take the comparison I think. They're the product of a different evolutionary process (and possibly 'directed ' evolution), unlikely to have more than a passing resemblance to anything from earth.

I'm no exo-biologist but I'm guessing ammonia chemistry works better at low temperatures ? (Sorry RELSPI they may be very cold to the touch, frigid even as well as being very smelly - but each to their own).

As I understand it there were giant insects on earth at one time but it was due to much higher oxygen levels in the atmosphere at the time, although gravity is another limiting factor.
 
Incidentally, on a related note, there are wacky theories which suggest that the apparent existence of giant prehistoric insects suggests that Earth's gravity has increased significantly at some point in the past.

I think you are confusing oxygen content with gravity. Earth's gravity has always been pretty much the same...only a major change in mass or diameter could alter it significantly.

Another limiting factor for the size of insects is their primitive respiratory systems. Earth has had significantly higher atmospheric oxygen content at certain points in the past (up to 35% during the Carboniferous, as compared with 21% today), which may well have contributed to gigantism in some invertebrates.
 
As long as their bodies do not look like their ships. The absolute worst thing in sci-fi, which happens all the time, is the reptile people flying reptile ships, the insect people flying insect ships, the fish people flying fish ships... But the Humans flying metal boxes?

The fact that most 'aliens' are based on Earth biology is bad enough, but physics and chemistry will be the same wherever you evolved, so if metal boxes are the best way to go into space, should everyone not be flying metal boxes, regardless of what gasses of fluids fill them?

Or turning this design lazyness on its head, why don't humans fly giant humans that look like that have skin?

Of course, we know what Thargoid ships look like, and they don't look like metal boxes. I suppose it's a small blessing that they don't look like big insects.

Another trope is that the aliens only have one design style, yet humans have thousands. I know this is hard, as you don't just need to design a body and a ship, but rather a whole culture. Did they have different nation states? Different languages? Different design movements? Different manufacturers? Again this is sort of skipped around with the Thargoids due to there nature, but so far, they have two ships. Humans have what, 30?

This all said, if I play devil's advocate, I am basing all my arguments on Humans, as it is all we have to go on. Who knows what aliens would be like?
 
I'm surprised no-one has picked up on how insects and hive minds work.
An ant hive for example normally has a number of different roles, Queen, Workers, Soldiers - They are physically different and built for the role they play.
The Thargoid pictured could be a soldier, maybe the female workers are smaller with better dexterity. Which means there could very well be a queen at the heart of every mothership.
Meta Alloys could be their food, we could be stealing their lunch, if someone stole my lunch I would not be happy!
Anywhoo - I think of Thargoids as evolved 'ants'... always looking for their next food source...maybe
 
The fact that most 'aliens' are based on Earth biology is bad enough, but physics and chemistry will be the same wherever you evolved, so if metal boxes are the best way to go into space, should everyone not be flying metal boxes, regardless of what gasses of fluids fill them?

Or turning this design lazyness on its head, why don't humans fly giant humans that look like that have skin?
I think you answered your own question - humans are bags of salty water, so unlikely to survive the harsh environments of space. A race based around a body with an exoskeleton may well think of ways to use that advantage in space applications (especially if they don't have access to easy metal resources to make boxes).

And some Scifi does go for the human spaceship model (a bit). The Expanse has humans making protomolecule-altered humans that are sent through space as living missiles (2nd book I think 🤔 ), an implication being that we would use our own form if it could survive.

But hey, yes, there is lots of lazy scifi as well :)
 
Given that quote you cite
are experts in bioengineering, so they may have augmented their own biology to a point where natural evolutionary processes are meaningless.

That they had an interstellar civilization seeding Barnacles before the Guardians went to space and that the Queens consider the drones to be like an eye lash, then I would imagine nothing about the Thargoids now might have any resemblance to their original evolution.

The drones might be completely engineers and augmented to fulfil their role to such a socialised extent they are no longer able to function outside that role supported by the rest of Thargoid civilization.

To that I mean all other functions removed beyond what they need to complete their tasks.
 
That they had an interstellar civilization seeding Barnacles before the Guardians went to space and that the Queens consider the drones to be like an eye lash, then I would imagine nothing about the Thargoids now might have any resemblance to their original evolution.
Made me think if their ships actually have aynone in them or if they're just tele-presencing the heck out of it. Or if the ships themselves are some type of purpose-built sentient beings.
 
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