Good players on every platform. PC don't automatically make you better than everyone else pal. Go poke some hornets, you'll find someone.
Good players on every platform. PC don't automatically make you better than everyone else pal. Go poke some hornets, you'll find someone.
I don't see where I implied any sort of PC bias.
You have mentioned before, perhaps in this very thread, that you are not on PC. Obviously, if you were, you'd be the prime canidate to demonstrate your points.
I haven't even been able to find anyone who claims to be able to do what you suggest. I figured you might know someone.
Got stuff to do IRL and when I find a property I'll sure as hell be joining yall. I'll be more than willing to oblige.
Looking forward to it.
Back on topic. Why do engineers build these ships that have all those juicy hardpoint and a powerplant that can't run them lol. Unless you overcharge.
https://s.orbis.zone/3vwz 99.9% power used lol with armoured. This is what I'd build anyway.
https://s.orbis.zone/3vwz 99.9% power used lol with armoured. This is what I'd build anyway.
Forces trade-offs so not everyone can run all PAs+rails+prismatics+full boosters+SCBs with armored or low emission PPs.
Anyway, there are some things you can do with that build to mitigate power consumption. Off the top of my head:
- Use a B rated AFMU. It's more durable, uses less power, and the slightly slower rate of repairs is usually an asset as A rated ones will almost always outpace incoming MRP damage...and if you are expecting to be taking a lot of rail or seeker fire, you can always synth standard ammunition.
- Set the cargo hatch, interdictor, and wake scanner to shut themselves down while hardpoints are deployed. If the wake scanner has a boot time (I don't use it often and don't recall off the top of my head), disregard this for that module.
No changes to your build other than priorities and B rating the AFMU: https://s.orbis.zone/3vxq
Edit: On a side note, if this the loadout you were fighting Depze's rail FDL with, it's no wonder your modules failed quickly. Rails are ~70% thermic damage and hull resists apply to all incoming module damage. You really want to get that thermic resistance up. That third MRP does less to protect internals than the extra hull resistances you'd get from thermal resistant bulkheads and another HD HRP. MRPs are also depleted sequentially, so if you are repairing the largest one, the rest should use your smallest available slots, as they'll almost never take any damage. On top of all that, MRP resistance is multiplicative so the deminishing returns after two D rated or three E rated MRPs is fairly extreme; you only go from 84% to 94% resistance on internals when going from two D rated to three, and that extra resistance only holds as long as all the MRPs are up.
Here, slightly more hull, slightly less mass, 20% more thermic resistance, and largely equivalent actual module protection: https://s.orbis.zone/3vxz
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Nah that fight was with this https://s.orbis.zone/3vwu
That Challenger is just what I was thinking of making next, Thanks for the advise though!
That Challenger is just what I was thinking of making next, Thanks for the advise though!
I was sifting through all the poorly labeled stuff on my YouTube channel and realized I had an encounter featuring solid pilots in a chieftain and challenger fighting my vette that I uploaded last year:
Yes, the police intervened on my CMDR's behalf, but no one involved thought they were a major factor, at least not until the very end.
I also found this video that was recorded immediately prior to getting the vette destroyed by ATR, that also features a chief:
Anyway, the chief and challenger are both far too heavy/drifty to orbit tightly enough to outpace a vette's rotation and I'm at a complete loss as to where your impression of the sluggishness of large vessels that aren't made my Gutamaya or Lakon comes from. How much experience do you have piloting them, or fighting CMDRs using them, who are also experienced with small and medium vessel PvP?
Ashenfox has a pretty sturdy Challenger setup, maybe you could take a look at his loadout.
Personally, the ship never really clicked with me, for reasons similar to why I have an aversion for the FAS...too drifty, and the exceptionally good yaw compared to most other ships is a jarring transistion...also, vulnerable thrusters. Anyway, if it suits your style it can be a very effective vessel; just don't assume you'll be dancing around anaconda or corvettes piloted by veterans and thinking they aren't going to have any ToT.
Experience fighting big ships? I used to go after them an awful lot as I enjoyed the practice of trying to kill SLF's and running out of ammo with a large quantity of hull left lol. The big ships are tanks, beng able to avoid one for long enough to do substantial damage, or even to kill one in one on one combat, is a lot of fun, though less of late with the lag from SLF's
The yaw speed coupled with thier strong lats allows both the Chief and the Challenger to cut thier turns and remove a great deal of the drift actually, infact getting thier nose onto target is trivial in most engagements, as for manuvering, I agree they can be drifty, but they also have decently long boosts giving you a good amount of time to counter any sliding whilst keeping within a set range of your target.
They are up there with the best handling ships imo, not quite as good as the FDL, but you get more than enough time outside of your opponents targeting to kick a big ship down. You need rails, but it works.
I’ve yet to meet anyone that I can’t keep my nose on for a majority of a fight, and I fly a fat pig of an Anaconda on a regular basis. Hardest part about fighting smalls isn’t that they’re hard to keep an eye on, it’s that they have a tiny hit box.
To be fair, I have ran into some pretty poorly built and flown large ships, and ran them off with a little DBS. Those wins feel good.
But I know they were just flukes, not an example of how a small ship can totally bully all larges. If those ships were built properly, and flown by someone who knew what they were doing, I’d get smoked.
Did a test late last night/early this morning, just before the server reset, where I pitted my standard, fully loaded, combat corvette (very similar to the loadout I settled on ~18 months ago), against a solid CMDR using first an FDL and then a Vulture, with the following limitations (which would not apply in any serious/organic fight) applied only to my Corvette:
The test administered by the 'meta' FDL:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRf8-yt-CPE
And minutes later, the same CMDR, with a dual PA hybrid Vulture:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQpcr2JpJ0
There are undoubtedly better pilots out there than CMDR Juggernaut or myself, but neither of us are novices, and I stacked the rules of engagement in favor of the smaller ship in ways that would not happen in a real engagement between combat vessels. I found the Vulture much more challenging, even after accounting for the small control issue I mention in the video comments, increased time messing around with modules, and canopy breach...it was quite a chore to keep up with. However, the vette still has that huge distributor, big shield, and it's time on target is far greater than zero.
Anyway, always looking for new test partners able to teach me new tricks, so there will certainly be more demonstrations to come, especially if I can find someone I cannot keep inside my cone of fire.
Not just any big ships, big ships flown by people with comparable experience in using small ships to, say, yourself, who knows intimately what they are capable, and how to fight big ships with them themselves. There is barely a ship in the game I haven't shot down a CMDR Anaconda or Corvette with...that doesn't mean I'm taking the limitations of significantly less experienced CMDRs as a benchmark of ship performance.
This is true of essentially any ship in the game, and that's my point.
The over whelming majority of ships, built and flown properly, can maintain good time on target with an enormous disadvantage in maneuverability, and this has only gotten more extreme over time as ships get faster, the tightest circles they can maintain get wider, and everyone's rotational rates go up.
The FDL, even with it's awesome boost acceleration, generally falls well below the threshold of orbit range vs. velocity vs. acceleration that can be maintained that will allow it to evade enough fire from an Anaconda or Corvette trying to put a bead on it.
The Viper, Vulture, Eagle, and Courier come closer, but they also sacrifice hitting and staying power for their higher ratio of relative time on target. A well piloted vulture is probably the most dangerous, because it's agility is up there with the best, and it hits the hardest, but even it falls short of the degree of advantage needed to overcome the greater durability and firepower of something like a conda or vette, without a significant skill advantage in favor of the smaller ship.
- Only my fixed weapons allowed (on a ship that has two medium turrets and a large seeker rack).
- No SCB use.
- No SLF deployed.
- Purposfully agressive stance with a deliberate avoidance of 'reverski'.
The test administered by the 'meta' FDL:
And minutes later, the same CMDR, with a dual PA hybrid Vulture:
There are undoubtedly better pilots out there than CMDR Juggernaut or myself, but neither of us are novices, and I stacked the rules of engagement in favor of the smaller ship in ways that would not happen in a real engagement between combat vessels. I found the Vulture much more challenging, even after accounting for the small control issue I mention in the video comments, increased time messing around with modules, and canopy breach...it was quite a chore to keep up with. However, the vette still has that huge distributor, big shield, and it's time on target is far greater than zero.
Anyway, always looking for new test partners able to teach me new tricks, so there will certainly be more demonstrations to come, especially if I can find someone I cannot keep inside my cone of fire.
Not just any big ships, big ships flown by people with comparable experience in using small ships to, say, yourself, who knows intimately what they are capable, and how to fight big ships with them themselves. There is barely a ship in the game I haven't shot down a CMDR Anaconda or Corvette with...that doesn't mean I'm taking the limitations of significantly less experienced CMDRs as a benchmark of ship performance.
This is true of essentially any ship in the game, and that's my point.
The over whelming majority of ships, built and flown properly, can maintain good time on target with an enormous disadvantage in maneuverability, and this has only gotten more extreme over time as ships get faster, the tightest circles they can maintain get wider, and everyone's rotational rates go up.
The FDL, even with it's awesome boost acceleration, generally falls well below the threshold of orbit range vs. velocity vs. acceleration that can be maintained that will allow it to evade enough fire from an Anaconda or Corvette trying to put a bead on it.
The Viper, Vulture, Eagle, and Courier come closer, but they also sacrifice hitting and staying power for their higher ratio of relative time on target. A well piloted vulture is probably the most dangerous, because it's agility is up there with the best, and it hits the hardest, but even it falls short of the degree of advantage needed to overcome the greater durability and firepower of something like a conda or vette, without a significant skill advantage in favor of the smaller ship.
Had CMDR Kay Altos (aka Moriarte), who is an excellent Viper pilot, pit his cannon/PA hybrid Mk III against my vette in a similar scenario to the above:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM1e9MG8l5M
The Viper, in the hands of a pilot of this level, was a very difficult target to track and hit, especially near the end of the first test when he reverted to FA On to tighten his orbit. With a change to rails and efficient PAs I can see such a loadout eventually driving off even a very skilled Anaconda/Corvette pilot, who for whatever reason, was using nothing but fixed weapons, but it would certainly be a slog and would require considerable synthesis. In this test case, with just force cannon and focused PA (a build for for fighting smaller ships), it took almost twenty minutes to get through the first ring of shields on my relatively lightly shielded bi-weave setup.
Once those auto-tracking weapon systems (gimbals, turrets, seekers, and SLFs) come into play however, even the most masterfully flown Viper isn't going to get much opportunity to do damage to the larger vessel. This can be seen around 25:00 in, after we rearmed.
The Viper, in the hands of a pilot of this level, was a very difficult target to track and hit, especially near the end of the first test when he reverted to FA On to tighten his orbit. With a change to rails and efficient PAs I can see such a loadout eventually driving off even a very skilled Anaconda/Corvette pilot, who for whatever reason, was using nothing but fixed weapons, but it would certainly be a slog and would require considerable synthesis. In this test case, with just force cannon and focused PA (a build for for fighting smaller ships), it took almost twenty minutes to get through the first ring of shields on my relatively lightly shielded bi-weave setup.
Once those auto-tracking weapon systems (gimbals, turrets, seekers, and SLFs) come into play however, even the most masterfully flown Viper isn't going to get much opportunity to do damage to the larger vessel. This can be seen around 25:00 in, after we rearmed.
Never ever overcharge. There is always a way to fit what you need into armored, monstered, except a few very specific ships.
Please, don't give any theorycrafting advice in this game, until you understand it MUCH better. You'd do well to listen to Morbad and drop the 'i know better' attitude. Friendly advice. There are some really serious players around here, we haven't been playing 5 years just waiting for you to come along and put us straight. Think about it.
I was under the impression that the majority of serious players had left due to the skill bar being so low these days. But hey ho.
You can always boost the skill with a few utilities
* drinks *
A shame though, I remember back when hull tanking was proper viable. I miss those days.
Silent running isnt as usable as it once was but it's possible to pull off some good no shield wins against the right ships.
Some really good players have thrown their toys out of the pram over the years, but there are still loads of us left, just trying to perfect the engineering and dogfighting model, and we're training new pilots for the future as well. PvP is busier than ever right now, with more politics and inter coalition open warfare. It's also worth bearing in mind that this game gets ever more complex, and many players stopped competing because the knowledge requirement and skill in engineering and flying eventually became beyond their abilities or more often, available time commitment.
This is a game where it's important to stay current. Some aspects of it are like riding a bike, but new effective combinations are still being discovered all the time. Reverski has become rather too prevalent though, that's the one thing that could use some work, cos the way some people fly they might as well face the cockpit and guns backwards and be done with it.
Some really good players have thrown their toys out of the pram over the years, but there are still loads of us left, just trying to perfect the engineering and dogfighting model, and we're training new pilots for the future as well. PvP is busier than ever right now, with more politics and inter coalition open warfare. It's also worth bearing in mind that this game gets ever more complex, and many players stopped competing because the knowledge requirement and skill in engineering and flying eventually became beyond their abilities or more often, available time commitment.
This is a game where it's important to stay current. Some aspects of it are like riding a bike, but new effective combinations are still being discovered all the time. Reverski has become rather too prevalent though, that's the one thing that could use some work, cos the way some people fly they might as well face the cockpit and guns backwards and be done with it.
Well and the fact that in most engagements its more about who can stack the most hitpoints then actually manage their pips and positioning.. I can see why they got bored of that as there is an all time low in real diversity through builds at this point.
PvP has ony picked up because less of the playerbase is pushed out through the skill to entry barrier IMO. Don't get me wrong, in some sense its a good thing having more pilots in the feild, but it would be better for everyone if there was more reason to get the gud as opposed to prismo bank tanking your vessel and being done with it.