Cobra Mk 4: open it up for everyone to buy this Xmas during Special Effect Livestream

[Arry]

Thank you. You was serious.

What I dont understand is it's importance after such a long time.

Think of it as: Someone gives you something and tells you that it is yours, exclusively, forever. Then in a few years, comes back and takes it away from you; because they feel, that you have had it to yourself, for a long time now.

Now you are going to respond with, the standard reply of: Yes, but it is only, a pretend space ship.

However: We are not talking about the pretend space ship. We are talking about the agreement itself.

 

[Nihila Vex]

Think of it as: Someone gives you something and tells you that it is yours, exclusively, forever. Then in a few years, comes back and takes it away from you; because they feel, that you have had it to yourself, for a long time now.

Now you are going to respond with, the standard reply of: Yes, but it is only, a pretend space ship.

However: We are not talking about the pretend space ship. We are talking about the agreement itself.

No, where you go wrong here isn't in "it's only a pretend space ship". That's beside the point. Your error here is, "comes back and takes it away from you".

Nobody is proposing that anything be taken away from those of us who already have the Cobra IV. The argument against releasing the ship to everyone is NOT about "I don't want to lose something". It's about "I don't want other people to have something I have". And that's very, very different.

If anyone was suggesting a move that would lose me the Cobra IV, I'd... well, actually I wouldn't personally care because I think I've used it like twice in total. But hypothetically, if it was about something being taken off me I can imagine feeling a little differently - but it's not. It's only about denying something that we have to others.

What can I say? When I was a kid I was taught to share my toys. Some kids weren't, I guess.

 

[CMDR Jowley]

Think of it as: Someone gives you something and tells you that it is yours, exclusively, forever. Then in a few years, comes back and takes it away from you; because they feel, that you have had it to yourself, for a long time now.

Now you are going to respond with, the standard reply of: Yes, but it is only, a pretend space ship.

However: We are not talking about the pretend space ship. We are talking about the agreement itself.

The difference is you aren't taking it away. The person who gave me the toy has more of the same toy to give to everyone after seeing how many people would also like the toy.

 

[Arry]

No, where you go wrong here isn't in "it's only a pretend space ship". That's beside the point. Your error here is, "comes back and takes it away from you".

Nobody is proposing that anything be taken away from those of us who already have the Cobra IV. The argument against releasing the ship to everyone is NOT about "I don't want to lose something". It's about "I don't want other people to have something I have". And that's very, very different.

If anyone was suggesting a move that would lose me the Cobra IV, I'd... well, actually I wouldn't personally care because I think I've used it like twice in total. But hypothetically, if it was about something being taken off me I can imagine feeling a little differently - but it's not. It's only about denying something that we have to others.

What can I say? When I was a kid I was taught to share my toys. Some kids weren't, I guess.

I was just trying to explain it, in simple terms, for obvious reasons.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The difference is you aren't taking it away. The person who gave me the toy has more of the same toy to give to everyone after seeing how many people would also like the toy.

If someone sells you a house, then 3 years later decides that they'd like some homeless people to live there as well (for charidee, see) then you'd presumably be fine with it, since you still get to live there, it's just not as 'exclusive' as it used to be.

It's been aaaaaages, so it doesn't need to be exclusive any more.

 

[Jukelo]

No, where you go wrong here isn't in "it's only a pretend space ship". That's beside the point. Your error here is, "comes back and takes it away from you".

Nobody is proposing that anything be taken away from those of us who already have the Cobra IV. The argument against releasing the ship to everyone is NOT about "I don't want to lose something". It's about "I don't want other people to have something I have". And that's very, very different.

If anyone was suggesting a move that would lose me the Cobra IV, I'd... well, actually I wouldn't personally care because I think I've used it like twice in total. But hypothetically, if it was about something being taken off me I can imagine feeling a little differently - but it's not. It's only about denying something that we have to others.

What can I say? When I was a kid I was taught to share my toys. Some kids weren't, I guess.

We paid for this exclusivity. If Frontier remove that exclusivity, then they remove what we paid for. The ship isn't being taken away, our right to deny others access to it is, and that right was part of the deal.
Exclusivity has value, whether you like it or not.

 

[Arry]

No, where you go wrong here isn't in "it's only a pretend space ship". That's beside the point. Your error here is, "comes back and takes it away from you".

Nobody is proposing that anything be taken away from those of us who already have the Cobra IV. The argument against releasing the ship to everyone is NOT about "I don't want to lose something". It's about "I don't want other people to have something I have". And that's very, very different.

If anyone was suggesting a move that would lose me the Cobra IV, I'd... well, actually I wouldn't personally care because I think I've used it like twice in total. But hypothetically, if it was about something being taken off me I can imagine feeling a little differently - but it's not. It's only about denying something that we have to others.

What can I say? When I was a kid I was taught to share my toys. Some kids weren't, I guess.

The difference is you aren't taking it away. The person who gave me the toy has more of the same toy to give to everyone after seeing how many people would also like the toy.

"However: We are not talking about the pretend space ship. We are talking about the agreement itself."

.......and I finished off, with the above quote. No space ships being taken away. Just an agreement, that has been broken.

 

[CMDR Jowley]

I'm loving the snarky responses.

I dont feel entitled. I understand what exclusive is. I just do not care. Stop making little antidotes about buying houses or taking candy from a baby.. huh

 

[CMDR Jowley]

What a weird thing to be speaking about a customer service issue with other customers rather than the service provider.

 

[Arry]

I'm loving the snarky responses.

I dont feel entitled. I understand what exclusive is. I just do not care. Stop making little antidotes about buying houses or taking candy from a baby.. huh

So it is about a child having: An 'I want' strop?

 

[CMDR Jowley]

So it is about a child having: An 'I want' strop?

Haha. Good one. The other side is "no mom I wont share my toy"

 

[Tunstan]

Stop making little antidotes about buying houses or taking candy from a baby..

anecdotes not antidotes

 

[Phongsalt]

Aye aye,gramma po.Better mind yer p's'n'q's. .ahem..i meant pisan cues,obvs.

 

[Nihila Vex]

We paid for this exclusivity. If Frontier remove that exclusivity, then they remove what we paid for. The ship isn't being taken away, our right to deny others access to it is, and that right was part of the deal.
Exclusivity has value, whether you like it or not.

I understand that that is the argument you're making. That's the argument I was trying to explain earlier to someone who stated they weren't clear on what your issue is.

For the record, I'm not clear on what your issue is. Like I said, I was brought up to share, not to hoard stuff for myself and keep it from others. You say exclusivity has value? I say the value of exclusivity is foxtrot alpha. Honestly, it is. You're placing value not on having something yourself, but on the feeling you get from knowing others can't have it. And if that's what you reckon you paid for, then frankly it's a pretty sorry thing to spend good money on.

 

[Jukelo]

I understand that that is the argument you're making. That's the argument I was trying to explain earlier to someone who stated they weren't clear on what your issue is.

For the record, I'm not clear on what your issue is. Like I said, I was brought up to share, not to hoard stuff for myself and keep it from others. You say exclusivity has value? I say the value of exclusivity is foxtrot alpha. Honestly, it is. You're placing value not on having something yourself, but on the feeling you get from knowing others can't have it. And if that's what you reckon you paid for, then frankly it's a pretty sorry thing to spend good money on.

I don't have a problem, I'm not interested in the exclusive Mk4, I bought Horizons because I wanted planetary landings. If Frontier asked me if they could go back on that exclusivity nonsense, I'd say yes. But I'm not the only one they sold it to, and Frontier aren't going to contact everybody and obtain their assent: there are those who simply aren't interested in ED anymore and send Frontier's emails to the spam folder (yet their contract with Frontier is still as valid as any active player's), and there are those who trully value the exclusivity of their Cobra (no matter how petty you see it). And if Frontier can't get everybody to agree, then it's just not proper for them to change anything. All they can do is learn the lesson that exclusive deals are more trouble than they're worth and not do them in the future.

 

[Nihila Vex]

I don't have a problem, I'm not interested in the exclusive Mk4, I bought Horizons because I wanted planetary landings. If Frontier asked me if they could go back on that exclusivity nonsense, I'd say yes. But I'm not the only one they sold it to, and Frontier aren't going to contact everybody and obtain their assent: there are those who simply aren't interested in ED anymore and send Frontier's emails to the spam folder (yet their contract with Frontier is still as valid as any active player's), and there are those who trully value the exclusivity of their Cobra (no matter how petty you see it). And if Frontier can't get everybody to agree, then it's just not proper for them to change anything. All they can do is learn the lesson that exclusive deals are more trouble than they're worth and not do them in the future.

I certainly think that's a lesson they should learn, yes.

But yes, you're also right that I do indeed see this issue as petty - very petty on the part of the people who 'value' that sense of being able to have something others can't in perpetuity. As you say, there are probably countless people who don't play the game any more at all - and unlike your position above I absolutely do not think they're entitled to have a say in this. We've already had raised the question of where this supposed 'contract' actually is - but even if the purchase of the game under the necessary qualifying conditions can be construed as an agreement between two parties, I absolutely guarantee you that a half-decent lawyer could find a way around it.

It would of course be better if lawyering could be avoided, and there are two ways that's going to happen. Either people without the Cobra IV finally just shut the frak up about it; or those with it express the general view (maybe they could have some sort of vote, that always works really well) that they don't mind other people finally having a go with their special toy and Frontier revisit that agreement, as they would be perfectly entitled to do in that case, and unlock the damn ship.

(Or they could just make the decision unilaterally because really what actual tangible consequences are going to come of it? Really?)

 

[tolm]

They should introduce a Cobra MkV with all the best features of both the III and IV and make it available to only those players who do not have access to the MkIV.

 

[Arry]

They should introduce a Cobra MkV with all the best features of both the III and IV and make it available to only those players who do not have access to the MkIV.

.....and this time, when they write the exclusive contract: They add a time clause, or a disclaimer, or any of the dozen or so things; they should have done the last time.

 

[varonica]

For the record, I'm not clear on what your issue is. Like I said, I was brought up to share, not to hoard stuff for myself and keep it from others.

This is nothing to do with sharing or hoarding stuff, it's to do with the principal of the agreement, and principals are more important than things, things can be replaced, principles can't. If this purchase agreement can be changed at the drop of a hat so can any other purchase agreement you made with FDEV, you want to pay for Horizons again? Would you be happy if FDEV suddenly decided that anyone who wants to play the 2020 content also has to pay for Horizons again? Of course not, you have an agreement, they took your money, you got Horizons. The early purchasers also have an agreement, just because some of them seem to think they can discard that agreement for everyone doesn't make it ok.

You don't have the right to break that agreement, and I should point out not everyone who disagrees with you is a party to that agreement so accusing people of hoarding and refusing to share is pretty much a straw man argument.

 

[varonica]

They should introduce a Cobra MkV with all the best features of both the III and IV and make it available to only those players who do not have access to the MkIV.

So your answer to the exclusivity of the Mk4 is to create more exclusivity? makes sense in a way I guess, lets punish those horrible people who payed hundreds of dollars early in the game cycle and that helped us create the game. This thread gets funnier as it goes!