It is unlikely that FDev will increase the top speed of Super Cruise. This is because DBOBE is a fan of the file "2001: A Space Odyssey" (this is why the original "Elite" came about). One of the 'nods' to this is the top speed in Super Cruise; 2001c.
Why does Super Cruise travel take so long?
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If ordering the chicken at a local restaurant frequently gives people food poisoning it would indeed be wise to not order the chicken. That is no reason not to suggest that, maybe, the chicken should be prepared better.
Well that comes down to the usual debate - do you want fdev to god-mod SC distances / speeds - or do you as a player alter what you do in response to the environment. I guess the two camps will never agree
The whole thing is a balance between big space and being able to reach places within a reasonable time.
I'd support a intersystem jump that's interdicable (traceable and risky) between stars though.
Should I jump between two stars my wake should be visible and traceable meaning that other ships should be able to follow in that wake and end up where I am. I should end up in real space with a fsd cool down.
I'd support a intersystem jump that's interdicable (traceable and risky) between stars though.
Should I jump between two stars my wake should be visible and traceable meaning that other ships should be able to follow in that wake and end up where I am. I should end up in real space with a fsd cool down.
Freelancer had gates between planets that offered really fast acceleration which in itself gave a sense of scale.
Not saying we should have the gates; just saying that there are ways to show scale without needing to force long "do nothing" periods as gameplay.
Of course, it would be quite a bit different if we could set our ship to auto-fly to a destination (SC-A) and then get out of our seats and walk around our ships.
Not saying we should have the gates; just saying that there are ways to show scale without needing to force long "do nothing" periods as gameplay.
Of course, it would be quite a bit different if we could set our ship to auto-fly to a destination (SC-A) and then get out of our seats and walk around our ships.
Having intra-system jump gates could be cool - maybe if we had to build them? And maybe make them destroyable, so Hutton can keep those free anacondas behind a long SC travel time
Well that comes down to the usual debate - do you want fdev to god-mod SC distances / speeds - or do you as a player alter what you do in response to the environment. I guess the two camps will never agree
Sorry, but that is a bit silly. This is a discussion about what the most fun rules would be, as you'd expect on a discussion forum for a computer game. Instantly discarding any suggested change as 'god-modding' is just stiffling discussion. If you don't agree that the SC speeds should be changed, why not come up with compelling arguments why Hutton Orbital should take 90 minutes and not 1, 10, 100 or 900000000 minutes? Why is a SC cap at 1500C perfect, and what makes it better than a cap at 1000C or 10000C?
Having intra-system jump gates could be cool - maybe if we had to build them? And maybe make them destroyable, so Hutton can keep those free anacondas behind a long SC travel time
The problem with allowing us to build gates is that it takes the idea of the CMDR not being special/important and throws it out the window. We shouldn't get to decide things on that kind of scale.
I would perhaps link it to system state, if it's prosperous and booming, the BGS might start a mini-CG in it's system which allows players to contribute. The gates will still be built if the players don't help, it'll just take longer. The mini-CG will request personnel and materials, and maybe combat bonds if there are pirates operating in the system.
Players should be able to destroy, or maybe destabilise the gates for pirating etc.
There are plenty. From what I'm currently doing - Station Repair - for example.
There are 2 sources for one commodity - one as a 12k Ls SC and you make a profit on the goods, the other has a < 500 Ls SC, but you make a loss - which do you use as a source? It's an interesting problem, with no 'best' solution. Reducing SC times the way people want reduces this to 'choose the one with the larger profit'. So it takes all complexity out of the game. Which (as I stated) is what some people want - no need to get so defensive
Lestat
Banned
Or a better idea is not to go to that Restaurant and report the restaurant. But how is this relevant to this topic?
Here my point. Players need to use common sense when they play Elite Dangerous. We have 65,000 systems with stations some far some short. Most of them are 10,000 LS or less. IF you find anything over a set LS that you don't like. You have an option not to go to it. Problem solved.
There are plenty. From what I'm currently doing - Station Repair - for example.
There are 2 sources for one commodity - one as a 12k Ls SC and you make a profit on the goods, the other has a < 500 Ls SC, but you make a loss - which do you use as a source? It's an interesting problem, with no 'best' solution. Reducing SC times the way people want reduces this to 'choose the one with the larger profit'. So it takes all complexity out of the game. Which (as I stated) is what some people want - no need to get so defensive
I am fairly confident we can reduce 'doing nothing for 15 minutes' to 'doing nothing for 5 minutes' without 'taking all the complexity out of the game'. People aren't saying all distances should be equal, your example would still work if SC would be faster across the board. In the end it is just a numbers game which you can tweak easily, your example doesnt seem to me a very good reason to advocate for lengthy stretches of time doing literally nothing.
No, the problem is not solved but avoided. Solving the problem means discussing the issue and making changes if necessary, not going all ostrich.
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There’s a couple of things here.
To my knowledge no other game contains such a vast expanse of map to play in. Straight away that should tell you that long travel will be involved. I remember one of the early open world type games where you could cross the map in around 5 mins. Strange that demands for larger maps now appears to be turning into ‘larger maps but I must be able to cross them quicker’, which really is asking for smaller maps.
Love him him or loathe him, Yamiks made a great point. He had travelled to Sag A* or further and as a passing note he said that after that, journeys to pop out and see the Guardian site (say 15-20 jumps depending on your craft) now appeared so easily doable, like a bus into town. This is very true. Is it Palin who requires you to have traveled 5000ly from home? A doddle. There and back in a day.
Once you have that under your belt, that a 20 jump journey is easy, inter-system journeys are nothing. The difference between walking a mile or walking to your kitchen.
No offence to anyone but it’s almost like ADHD, this compulsion to shrink everything, to have no idle time, to be constantly doing something.
Based on the system we have now, jumping from one system to another basically takes you into a cutscene. How tedious to have them in inter-system travel as well. It feels as though, in the end, we’ll have jump to assassination target, arrive, kill, jump to cargo drop off (no docking, straight into terminal), jump somewhere else because God forbid we have to spend longer than 3 seconds traveling somewhere.
To my knowledge no other game contains such a vast expanse of map to play in. Straight away that should tell you that long travel will be involved. I remember one of the early open world type games where you could cross the map in around 5 mins. Strange that demands for larger maps now appears to be turning into ‘larger maps but I must be able to cross them quicker’, which really is asking for smaller maps.
Love him him or loathe him, Yamiks made a great point. He had travelled to Sag A* or further and as a passing note he said that after that, journeys to pop out and see the Guardian site (say 15-20 jumps depending on your craft) now appeared so easily doable, like a bus into town. This is very true. Is it Palin who requires you to have traveled 5000ly from home? A doddle. There and back in a day.
Once you have that under your belt, that a 20 jump journey is easy, inter-system journeys are nothing. The difference between walking a mile or walking to your kitchen.
No offence to anyone but it’s almost like ADHD, this compulsion to shrink everything, to have no idle time, to be constantly doing something.
Based on the system we have now, jumping from one system to another basically takes you into a cutscene. How tedious to have them in inter-system travel as well. It feels as though, in the end, we’ll have jump to assassination target, arrive, kill, jump to cargo drop off (no docking, straight into terminal), jump somewhere else because God forbid we have to spend longer than 3 seconds traveling somewhere.
I also agree with this. There is a middle-ground to reduce most waiting times while keeping the "space is big" thing. Ship supercruise top speeds are already huge, so what would be needed was simply higher acceleration and deceleration.
This would make the vast majority of destinations take a short travel time (most are under the 2, 3k ls range), while at the same time keeping the outlier systems for variety. If most destinations would take 1 minute or less, 30% took less than 5 minutes, and the very rare extreme outliers took 30 minutes instead of 60 or 80, space would still be big, the feeling of going long distance would still be kept, and system variety and existence of outliers would remain, while at the same time making most (the "normal") systems more accessible for all the people who just want to "get somewhere".
My ideal solution would have a more involving flight model, making the act of piloting a ship from A to B gameplay in itself ()like good flight sims do, try releasing the controls on X-Plane 11 and go to the toilet and see what happens), but we all know that's not going to happen, so the second best (and much more simpler) solution is simply increase acceleration and deceleration.
Lestat
Banned
You know Avoiding things is part of the game. Just like a Trader, Passenger ships, or a combat ship was trying Avoiding another Combat ship in a mission or PvPer that is trying to kill them. So Distance fit into this same category. So discussing the issue and pointing out why you are wrong to show why we don't need a change because it not necessary.No, the problem is not solved but avoided. Solving the problem means discussing the issue and making changes if necessary, not going all ostrich.
IF it too far then discard. We have 400 billion systems suited for both our needs. 90% of the stations suited for you Ian Skippy and having everything short. Only 10% suited for me.
true enough - I'm in favour of more to do, but I think it's naive to think 5 minutes of nothing is better than 15 - most complaints will carry on until it's zero (which is the time in single player games, so it's the obvious comparison).
You're confusing engineer power creep with gameplay. Pressing the "J" key 50 times to do a journey isn't a doddle, it's pretty much the epitome of repetitive gameplay. At its core it foreshadows ED's basic design principle: To repeat routine operations ad nauseam. That FSD engineering cuts down the number of jumps required doesn't change that. It's merely a band-aid to alleviate the stupefying repetition.
Do you not think you're taking the slippery slope argument a bit far there?
If we reduce travel times a bit then we'll end up with universal insta-travel? (I kinda doubt ED will ever become that game...)
You still haven't provided a single argument, not even a poor one, why you think having lengthy stretches of doing absolutely nothing is good game design or fun. All you do is point out you can avoid the poorly designed bits, which, while true, is meaningless. This is just the gaming version of 'iF yOu DonT LiKe It gO BaCk To yOuR oWn CoUnTrY!!!!!'.
All games are repetition.
Football. Get the ball, score a goal.
Racing games. Drive car around the track.
FPS. Get a gun, kill someone, then kill someone else.
Monopoly. Go round the board, get properties.
RDR2. Go to this place, do mission (probably involves riding a horse and shooting guns). Go to that place, do mission (probably involves riding a horse and shooting guns), next mission.
PacMan. Eat blobs, avoid ghosts, move rpund maze.
Pressing J 50 times to get to a destination is a journey. What if that takes you 50mins but it takes me a week because each jump is my destination, to look, to explore?
What is the point of a massive map if you can cross it in 5 jumps?
The issue isn't the time anything takes, but what you do during that time. When I have a four hour session what matters is how much of that I spend doing something fun, what part is spend doing stuff that is not fun (pressing the jump button over and over and over) and the time I spend doing nothing at all (loading screens, watching a timer run down). If it would take a real-time year to go from Earth to the Moon, but the journey was epic, challenging, memorable and fun that'd be great. If I can travel from Earth to the center of the galaxy in an afternoon but it is excruciatingly repetitive and boring with zero challenge or risk that is not so great.
There is no one single solution, but rather many different. Make hyperspace loadings as fast as possible (they obviously try this), give people more to do when they have little to nothing to do and reduce the proportion of time spend doing nothing in favor of time having fun. That is, in a nutshell, what game design is about at its core.