Why does Super Cruise travel take so long?

[Ian Skippy]

All games are repetition.

Football. Get the ball, score a goal.
Racing games. Drive car around the track.
FPS. Get a gun, kill someone, then kill someone else.
Monopoly. Go round the board, get properties.
RDR2. Go to this place, do mission (probably involves riding a horse and shooting guns). Go to that place, do mission (probably involves riding a horse and shooting guns), next mission.
PacMan. Eat blobs, avoid ghosts, move rpund maze.

Notice how in none of those examples I spend 90 minutes doing literally nothing at all, and where me even being present in any way influences how the game goes. In football games like PES and FIFA I can skip the pre-game warmup, I dont have to watch a bunch of dudes stretching their legs for 90 minutes (which absurdly enough would still be more exciting than watching a white dot on a black background get bigger). In racing games I dont have to watch for 90 minutes how the team is polishing my car, which, again, would be visually more stimulating than what SC in ED is.

This is the only forums I know where 'is doing absolutely nothing for long stretches of time good game design and fun?' a legit question with people debating both sides. It boggles the mind when you take a step back.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

The issue isn't the time anything takes, but what you do during that time. When I have a four hour session what matters is how much of that I spend doing something fun, what part is spend doing stuff that is not fun (pressing the jump button over and over and over) and the time I spend doing nothing at all (loading screens, watching a timer run down). If it would take a real-time year to go from Earth to the Moon, but the journey was epic, challenging, memorable and fun that'd be great. If I can travel from Earth to the center of the galaxy in an afternoon but it is excruciatingly repetitive and boring with zero challenge or risk that is not so great.

There is no one single solution, but rather many different. Make hyperspace loadings as fast as possible (they obviously try this), give people more to do when they have little to nothing to do and reduce the proportion of time spend doing nothing in favor of time having fun. That is, in a nutshell, what game design is about at its core.

As I said elsewhere, if I want “Do as much as you can, no idle time, fast paced”, I have my real life job for that. This game is unique in its way that shortcuts and fast travel locations aren’t available. Every other game has those features. This one game doesn’t. It can have fast paced PvP battles but for the most part, it is a slow paced game, unlike 99% of other games. For me, it would be a shame to lose it. I don’t have an alternative game to get this experience, I have hundreds of thousands other games to choose if I want fast paced.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

While this may not be a valid reason for why Super Cruise behaves the way it does, it can help with the immersion of the Game, so here goes;

Imagine, if you will, that Space near Gravity Wells (as exist near ALL Astronomical Bodies) has debris (such as micro meteorites) drifting around them. Striking such an item at very high speed would penetrate the shields like a hot bullet through butter, and if it then struck the vessel it could destroy said vessel. In order to prevent this from happening the various FSD manufacturers have built in a safety system that restricts the speed around Astronomical Bodies (and for those vessels without a Shield Generator the effects of the FSD while in Super Cruise (and ONLY in Super Cruise) create a 'bubble' around the vessel that acts somewhat like a shield).

It has been said that no meteorite actually falls to Earth; they are actually falling towards the Sun and the Earth gets in the way!

Because of this it is often MUCH quicker to plot a route that takes you away from Gravity Wells. If, for example, I am heading towards a Gas Giant with several moons I will fly in such a way that this 'system' will appear to be like an archery target, and not a flat line. Then my vessel will decelerate at an even rate. I also fly in an arc away from the equatorial plane to my eventual destination; it may be a longer journey (distance wise), but it usually takes a lot less time if you pick the right route.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Notice how in none of those examples I spend 90 minutes doing literally nothing at all, and where me even being present in any way influences how the game goes. In football games like PES and FIFA I can skip the pre-game warmup, I dont have to watch a bunch of dudes stretching their legs for 90 minutes (which absurdly enough would still be more exciting than watching a white dot on a black background get bigger). In racing games I dont have to watch for 90 minutes how the team is polishing my car, which, again, would be visually more stimulating than what SC in ED is.

This is the only forums I know where 'is doing absolutely nothing for long stretches of time good game design and fun?' a legit question with people debating both sides. It boggles the mind when you take a step back.

The interesting part is exactly as you say, of the hundreds of thousands of games available, this one alone is not like the others, I like that. It gives me a different experience to all those other games. You may find the moments of being idle frustrating, I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying the overall game gives me an experience like no other game, for me, it would be a shame to lose it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

As I said elsewhere, if I want “Do as much as you can, no idle time, fast paced”, I have my real life job for that. This game is unique in its way that shortcuts and fast travel locations aren’t available. Every other game has those features. This one game doesn’t. It can have fast paced PvP battles but for the most part, it is a slow paced game, unlike 99% of other games. For me, it would be a shame to lose it. I don’t have an alternative game to get this experience, I have hundreds of thousands other games to choose if I want fast paced.

I didn't mention fast-paced or fast travel locations. In most games, being the Immersion prostitute that I am, I disable quick travel. In the W3 I go with my horse from location to location, without sprinting unless I have a good in-game reason for it. The difference between that and ED is that when I travel from location to location in any other game I do something, in ED I do nothing.

The argument that this is the only game where you get to do nothing is a bit silly; you could, of course, simply not do anything at all without launching the game. People tupically launch a game to do something. That is what a game is for, by definition. You could argue what that something should be, but arguing that nothing is a great alternative to something is really... bizarre.

 

[Ian Skippy]

While this may not be a valid reason for why Super Cruise behaves the way it does, it can help with the immersion of the Game, so here goes;

Imagine, if you will, that Space near gravity wells (as exist near ALL Astronomical Bodies) has debris (such as micro meteorites) drifting around them. Striking such an item at very high speed would penetrate the shields like a hot bullet through butter, and if it then struck the vessel it could destroy said vessel. In order to prevent this from happening the various FSD manufacturers have built in a safety system that restricts the speed around Astronomical Bodies (and for those vessels without a Shield Generator the effects of the FSD while in Super Cruise (and ONLY in Super Cruise) create a 'bubble' around the vessel that acts somewhat like a shield).

It has been said that no meteorite actually falls to Earth; they are actually falling towards the Sun and the Earth gets in the way!

If a tennis ball would hit you when you are traveling to Hutton the kinetic impact would be ~2500000000000 KJ. That is 600,000 tons of TNT, or about 400 times the nuclear bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

I think that might be enough to kill my Sidey.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I didn't mention fast-paced or fast travel locations. In most games, being the Immersion prostitute that I am, I disable quick travel. In the W3 I go with my horse from location to location, without sprinting unless I have a good in-game reason for it. The difference between that and ED is that when I travel from location to location in any other game I do something, in ED I do nothing.

The argument that this is the only game where you get to do nothing is a bit silly; you could, of course, simply not do anything at all without launching the game. People tupically launch a game to do something. That is what a game is for, by definition. You could argue what that something should be, but arguing that nothing is a great alternative to something is really... bizarre.

It’s doing nothing to you. Other people see the whole idea of playing video games as ‘doing nothing’.

When it comes to SC, it’s never 90mins, longer journeys average around 10mins, you have to be quite unlucky to get 2 or 3 of these in a row. Most are less than 2mins.

 

[Ian Skippy]

It’s doing nothing to you. Other people see the whole idea of playing video games as ‘doing nothing’.

I am not talking about nothing in some philosophical sense. I mean that it literally doesn't matter if I am sitting at my computer or doing the laundry. I am doing nothing in gaming terms.

When it comes to SC, it’s never 90mins, longer journeys average around 10mins, you have to be quite unlucky to get 2 or 3 of these in a row. Most are less than 2mins.

Do you even play the game? :/

 

[Hell Razor5543]

If a tennis ball would hit you in ED when you are traveling to Hutton the kinetic impact would be ~2500000000000 KJ. That is 600,000 tons of TNT, or about 400 times the nuclear bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

I think that might be enough to kill my Sidey.

You would have to be REALLY unlucky for this to happen in Deep Space (it is far more likely near a Gravity Well, hence the speed restriction).

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I am not talking about nothing in some philosophical sense. I mean that it literally doesn't matter if I am sitting at my computer or doing the laundry. I am doing nothing in gaming terms.

In SC I’m constantly scanning other ships, so, you know, when I want to do some engineering, as part of the game play, I’ve already got some materials.

Do you even play the game? :/

Playing as we speak, on the first leg (550 jumps) to a destination that will still leave me another 500+ Jumps (minimum) to get to Colonia.

I understand we view the game differently, you must look at me the way I looked at my kids when the ‘playtime’ then spent in Minecraft got overtaken by the amount of time they spent watching videos on YT of other people playing Minecraft. In the end, they didn’t play it at all but stayed subscribed to the TY channels.

I get that how i’m playing this, the enjoyment I get from it, doesn’t make sense to you. But I do get an enjoyment from it that no other game on the market provides and I would be upset if changes were made to it that made it more like every other game.

 

[VR Golgot]

As I said elsewhere, if I want “Do as much as you can, no idle time, fast paced”, I have my real life job for that. This game is unique in its way that shortcuts and fast travel locations aren’t available. Every other game has those features. This one game doesn’t. It can have fast paced PvP battles but for the most part, it is a slow paced game, unlike 99% of other games. For me, it would be a shame to lose it. I don’t have an alternative game to get this experience, I have hundreds of thousands other games to choose if I want fast paced.

This gets to the nub of why these discussions on transit times are rarely hugely constructive. It's because many are arguing from an emotional base.

ED has clearly attracted a tranche of players who like the 'idle time' as you describe it. The unpressured, empty, no-distraction, no-action aspect of the longer Supercruise times etc (I presume).

FWIW, some of us who are passionate on the other side of the fence (IE get deeply annoyed by empty transits ), wouldn't wish to take away your experience. Some, slightly shonky, 'win win' solutions could be possible. (See the mooted idea in my signature for example - click the pic. It's not perfect, but it could leave your preferred playstyle potentially viable and unaltered).

You've got to be aware though that your desires for the game are decidedly niche. (Hell, both myself and Ian above lie on the niche end of the scale too it seems - I too am a long travel, UI-off immersionist in many traditional games. But we're still way shy of the line you and others would draw for the game). And decidedly niche isn't likely to support AAA GAAS games with the readies they need over time.

On those grounds (and given FDev's current focus on facilitating new players, and getting them to hang around), wouldn't considering some win-win solutions be a plan worth pondering?

 

[Ian Skippy]

In SC I’m constantly scanning other ships, so, you know, when I want to do some engineering, as part of the game play, I’ve already got some materials.

Playing as we speak, on the first leg (550 jumps) to a destination that will still leave me another 500+ Jumps (minimum) to get to Colonia.

Let me know how many SC ships you are constantly scanning on your way to Colonia. My bet is that for 99,9% of the journey that will be grabs calculator zero ships. I am quite confident about that, because I already made that trip and am parked at Robardin Rock.

I get that how i’m playing this, the enjoyment I get from it, doesn’t make sense to you.

I think you overestimate how much you 'get'.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

All games are repetition.

Football. Get the ball, score a goal.
Racing games. Drive car around the track.
FPS. Get a gun, kill someone, then kill someone else.
Monopoly. Go round the board, get properties.
RDR2. Go to this place, do mission (probably involves riding a horse and shooting guns). Go to that place, do mission (probably involves riding a horse and shooting guns), next mission.
PacMan. Eat blobs, avoid ghosts, move rpund maze.


Pressing J 50 times to get to a destination is a journey. What if that takes you 50mins but it takes me a week because each jump is my destination, to look, to explore?

What is the point of a massive map if you can cross it in 5 jumps?

I dunno - I never asked for a billion stars with empty stuff in them in the first place.

 

[Schmack]

ED is a bit like a microtransaction game that has content hidden behind grind walls and you pay to remove the walls, but in ED you engineer to remove some of the walls, and others are simply immovable. Unlike those other games, ED's grind is how it simulates galaxy size (where travel is concerned) and tries to make travel mode fit reasonable sci-fi technology. We are 1000 years or so ahead of present time, but we aren't jumping in 1000 year technology leaps. The tech we have is almost all we will have, until the hand of god delivers things like Guardians or some Xeno tech that gets reconfigured to fit our ships in a way that somewhat fits a storyline.

The thing about travel is that it's not required, but if you want to get to a system 22K LY out, you have to do basically the same thing everyone else has to do in order to get there. If some people could get there in just a few jumps, it would feel rather cheap for others to force themselves to take the long route. So I don't think the "sit and watch the screen" guys are trying to force everyone to their play style, but that this is the game they bought, and they don't want it altered so that the rest of the ED galaxy is, in essence, a point and click map for travel.

However many commanders have gone through the grind of acquiring Guardian modules, especially the FSD. This indicates a desire to have higher performance ships, not just to spend less time in transit. Many are likely not going anywhere that they couldn't get almost as quickly without the extra performance. So building a high performance ride is part of the fun of the game, and along with improved performance is reduced grind. These days explorers are often strapped with the best FSDs available. That wouldn't been required if you were stopping at every system within jump range along the way but might be needed once you get out to the fringes.

 

[Drelthar]

If they made it so you could slow down, and speed up a lot faster, it'd solve some of it to an extent, as, at least you could drop into signal sources quickly, then get back up to the speed you were at once leaving the signal source.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

If they made it so you could slow down, and speed up a lot faster, it'd solve some of it to an extent, as, at least you could drop into signal sources quickly, then get back up to the speed you were at once leaving the signal source.

Depending on how close you are to a Gravity Well affects the acceleration away from a signal source you popped into to look at. If it is close to a Planet, for example, it will (upon entering Super Cruise) take some time to get up to a decent speed. If, however, the nearest Gravity Well was a long way off the acceleration is far greater.

 

[Flimley]

I think we should cut down the super cruise time to the point where we arrive before we leave !
Yeah !!!

Flimley

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Let me know how many SC ships you are constantly scanning on your way to Colonia. My bet is that for 99,9% of the journey that will be grabs calculator zero ships. I am quite confident about that, because I already made that trip and am parked at Robardin Rock.

I thought this discussion was about SC within a system, unless you’re telling me you got to Colonia in SC? No wonder you got bored.

I think you overestimate how much you 'get'.

I don’t think you can possibly begin to verify a statement like that. Next you’ll tell me my preferences in sandwiches.

 

[Ebalosus]

Because for whatever reason, a lot of people seem to think long stretches of 0 gameplay is both immersive, incredible game design, and the only possible way to convey scale.

Oh boy do I have the MrBtongue video for you! I'm glad that I'm sharing MrBtongue's other videos rather than just the one I post whenever someone brings up either "PvP switches" or "an open PvE mode." But I digress.

 

[Codger]

Necro!!