Trading during an Election causes Pirate Attacks?

Factabulous · Aug 16, 2019

So, am I reading this right and a way to cause the Pirate Attack state is trading/smuggling during an Election? And the only way revealed to help an outbreak is - combat bonds in a war. Hmmm. Shame we didn't get a better breakdown of 'Missions' than 'Varies' - you can tell a lot from the mission status page, but nothing there about any effect on Pirates / Outbreaks - a bit more clarity there would go a long way.

(from Dav's talk yesterday

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0zBtQcdHvs
)

Jmanis · Aug 16, 2019

Nope.

Reading of this graph is, going through the columns:
1st: Types of activities you can do
2nd: The actions effect on Economy
3rd: The actions effect on Security
4th: The actions effect on Influence
5th (the Conflict column): Actions which will have an effect in that conflict type.
6th Column: Other effects

So "Trade" will:

Improve Economy
No influence on Security
Improve Influence
Support a faction in Election
Cause Pirate Attack

To address your question directly:

a way to cause the Pirate Attack state is trading/smuggling during an Election?

should actually read:

a way to cause the Pirate Attack state is trading/smuggling

Edit: Rephrased 5th column, because Trade and smuggling helping a faction during election sounds weird... so maybe it's just generally "has an effect".

Factabulous · Aug 16, 2019

I guess that could well be the case (which is why I asked

). Surely trading supports a faction in any case except War / Civil War?

I suppose the test is - do lots of trade [1] for a None state and also one in an Election and see if either gets pirates. If 'None' states can get pirate attacks from trade then I wonder if repaired stations get pirate attacks, given that they are repaired by massive trade

Hmmm.

[1] For some value of 'lots'

Edit: this backs you up - https://inara.cz/galaxy-starsystem/12685/ Earth Defence Force have a pirate attack right now - no sign of an Election. Guess I don't quite grok that column

Edit2: Ok, got it now!

Jmanis · Aug 16, 2019

Factabulous said:
I guess that could well be the case (which is why I asked ). Surely trading supports a faction in any case except War / Civil War?

I suppose the test is - do lots of trade [1] for a None state and also one in an Election and see if either gets pirates. If 'None' states can get pirate attacks from trade then I wonder if repaired stations get pirate attacks, given that they are repaired by massive trade Hmmm.

[1] For some value of 'lots'

Edit: this backs you up - https://inara.cz/galaxy-starsystem/12685/ Earth Defence Force have a pirate attack right now - no sign of an Election. Guess I don't quite grok that column
Edit2: Ok, got it now!

Yep... you beat me to an edit, which was basically reading out the table in long form (which is nonexhaustive)... ignoring missions:

Actions which improve economy: All Trading
Actions which degrade economy: All smuggling
Actions which improve security: Trading Weapons, Search and Rescue, Redeeming Bounties, Redeeming Combat Bonds
Actions which decrease security: Smuggling Weapons
Actions which improve influence: All trading, Search and Rescue, Redeeming Bounties
Actions which decrease influence: Smuggling
Actions which (affect[1]) Election: All trade, smuggling and Search and Rescue
Actions which (affect[1]) War/Civil War: Combat Bonds, Bounties
Actions which cause Outbreak: Redeeming Combat Bonds (!!!)
Actions which prevent Outbreak: Smuggling or Trading Medicines
Actions which cause Pirate Attack: Trade (except Weapons), All Smuggling, (Combat Bonds[1])
Actions which prevent Pirate Attack: Trading Weapons, Bounties, (Combat Bonds[1])

The Combat Bonds cause Outbreak is intriguing.

[1] It's ambiguous whether these are meant to help or hinder... though some are obvious.

Ian Doncaster · Aug 16, 2019

Factabulous said:
Edit: this backs you up - https://inara.cz/galaxy-starsystem/12685/ Earth Defence Force have a pirate attack right now - no sign of an Election. Guess I don't quite grok that column

Something to note: Pirate Attack has an invisible 14-day pending period [1], so even if trade was only effective for causing it during elections (and there are plenty of counter examples to that), it would be very unusual for them to occur together.

[1] That's why, prior to this table being published, our best guess for the cause was "transactions of some sort". Note that at least some missions must have a hidden "causes pirate attack" effect - probably similar to standard trade - because otherwise factions not owning stations would never get Pirate Attack: and it's rarer for them, but not impossible.

dm06 · Aug 16, 2019

Also do not forget to do it being beginner pilot in a sidewinder. Because effect/influence on that stuff will be the same.

Kissamies · Aug 16, 2019

Ian Doncaster said:
... Note that at least some missions must have a hidden "causes pirate attack" effect - probably similar to standard trade - because otherwise factions not owning stations would never get Pirate Attack: and it's rarer for them, but not impossible.

My hunch would be that the missions where you are tasked to transport goods are good candidates for these.

Jmanis · Aug 16, 2019

Ian Doncaster said:
Something to note: Pirate Attack has an invisible 14-day pending period [1], so even if trade was only effective for causing it during elections (and there are plenty of counter examples to that), it would be very unusual for them to occur together.

[1] That's why, prior to this table being published, our best guess for the cause was "transactions of some sort". Note that at least some missions must have a hidden "causes pirate attack" effect - probably similar to standard trade - because otherwise factions not owning stations would never get Pirate Attack: and it's rarer for them, but not impossible.

Yeah... my initial belief was that it was a "hyperextension" of trading beyond investment, and designed as a means to counter excessive positive actions... based on the fact the first observed Pirate Attack happened in the first system to hit Investment + Civil Liberty and have the pumped up void opal prices be observed, causing a rush on that system. All that trading would've caused Pirate Attack pretty quick. And subsequently, people thought it was caused by being in Investment + Civil Liberty.

Makes sense that it's achieved via high trade and low security conduct.

Ian Doncaster · Aug 16, 2019

Jmanis said:
Makes sense that it's achieved via high trade and low security conduct.

Yes - though it seems a lot easier for trade to boost it than for security to drop it: Colonia (system) has tens of millions of bounties put in daily, enough to keep Jaques permanently in Civil Liberty. Jaques only owns one of the four tradeable stations (though it is the biggest, and enough to maintain perma-Investment), but still has Pirate Attacks at the maximum possible frequency.