Griefing

[Phisto Sobanii]

You behave as if no one is allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours.

I think greifing is pathetic. It shows low moral character, cowardice and massive immaturity. If you disagree, then fine... that's allowed too.

Folks can have all the opinion they want. Mine are strongly held and backed by years of experience playing this game primarily as an outlaw.

Here you object to menu-logging, which is specifically allowed by the rules and even given the OK by the devs in this very forum, and you object to it here. A page or two earlier you also state that blowing up players is allowed by in-game rules.

Menu logging isn't a legitimate way to avoid the destruction of your ship. You're considering the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the law.

Besides, with mode choices, outfitting, engineering, and the ships available nevermind the endless credits available for ship rebuy these days people still choose to menu log the moment they're faced with antagonizing scenarios?

Like, srsly how can anyone even with that?

Something is puzzling me here.

Who on this forum, have I insulted?
I simple gave a number of hypothetical reasons, why players, have to attack the weak. I attempted to provide answers to the O.P. Yet you seem to have taken what I have said; as some form of personal insult. Maybe you could explain why this is, the case?

I don't have to resort to such craven posting. Why do you?

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I'm not saying playing to just make people mad doesn't happen. But you have to prove it, don't you? Famously the average Commander in this game considers any antagonizing action to be griefing. Just look at the OP.

But when you decide to insult people on the forum, well, proof is in the pudding as they say.



I'm not a loser. Sorry you don't have the self esteem to say that about yourself.

Ehhh call it self esteem or lack of self awareness. Most of us have dumped 1000ish hours on the game and 100s of hours on the forums.

Also not seeing the difference between insulting someone’s genitalia and calling them losers. Anything you say about insulting people on forums can be applied to blazing people away in game.

It’s all simulated “violence”, just with a different medium

 

[Voracity_T]

Here you object to menu-logging, which is specifically allowed by the rules and even given the OK by the devs in this very forum, and you object to it here. A page or two earlier you also state that blowing up players is allowed by in-game rules.

The difference is a matter of fairness. The game, unfortunatly for some apparently, counts your losses and makes you cough up accordingly, it's not an instant gratification game, nor does it allow "free respawns" (Unless of course you want the sidey). Either form of logging completely subverts systems put in place to keep people feeling like they have a progression for at least a time. Frontier might say it's not the case regarding menu logging however a very large portion of the player base thinks otherise. Beleive me there are many more than you will find on this forum who don't get thier say here.

Also I will add, whilst the PvP and PvE crowds often have differing opinions, there is one group in particular who actively tries to demean the other on these forums. Quite frankly, if you can't e civil and have an intelligent discussion without namecalling, really you should just butt out. Too much personal attachment to a veiw of others like that is very detrimental to sorting out any kind of issue. Moreover, it's not helpful when it comes to the growth of the game. The idea is to have a discussion and see what we can all agree on. This make life much easier for the dev's however I would not be shocked in the least if this forum isnt just a lolcow thats not taken seriously at the office. You know what? I wouldnt bloody blame them neither.

 

[Arry]

Folks can have all the opinion they want. Mine are strongly held and backed by years of experience playing this game primarily as an outlaw.



Menu logging isn't a legitimate way to avoid the destruction of your ship. You're considering the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the law.

Besides, with mode choices, outfitting, engineering, and the ships available nevermind the endless credits available for ship rebuy these days people still choose to menu log the moment they're faced with antagonizing scenarios?

Like, srsly how can anyone even with that?



I don't have to resort to such craven posting. Why do you?

So using the word craven; which basically mean, cowardly. Is not an insult?

Again. who, here did I insult, with my original post?

 

[Bryan K]

Folks can have all the opinion they want. Mine are strongly held and backed by years of experience playing this game primarily as an outlaw.



Menu logging isn't a legitimate way to avoid the destruction of your ship. You're considering the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the law.

Besides, with mode choices, outfitting, engineering, and the ships available nevermind the endless credits available for ship rebuy these days people still choose to menu log the moment they're faced with antagonizing scenarios?

Like, srsly how can anyone even with that?

The “spirit” you speak of is 100% up to interpretation. It is of no practical consequence, so it’s pretty much irrelevant.

Also, for the record, you forgot blocking on your list. Works great, especially just before interdictions. Keeps players with opposing viewpoints apart. You should try it sometime.

 

[Voracity_T]

So using the word craven; which basically mean, cowardly. Is not an insult?

Again. who, here did I insult, with my original post?

Can you read?

He said the post was craven, not the guy.

Can we stop trying to make this personal at every opportunity.

 

[Arry]

Can you read?

He said the post was craven, not the guy.

Can we stop trying to make this personal at every opportunity.

Very well thank you.

No. "I don't have to resort to such craven posting. Why do you?" The sentence as a whole, refers to the posters. The italic 'I' sets the tone.

I have only made it personal to the hypothetical greifers, asked about in the O.P.

Just because some, have chosen to take it personally, has nothing to do with what I have said.

 

[pookeyhead]

Folks can have all the opinion they want. Mine are strongly held and backed by years of experience playing this game primarily as an outlaw.

A strong opinion, is still just an opinion. I think you're wrong, both absolutely, and morally. You can argue how STRONG your opinion is compared to mine, but it would be a fairly facile thing to waste your time with.

Having lots of experience of being a griefer, doesn't make greifing any more acceptable. It just means you've been exhibiting crass, childish behaviour for longer than others, and that yopu derive pleasure from other people's misfortune for longer than others too. If that's an accolade you aspire to, then you go right ahead, but have the courage to just hold your hand up and admit to being a T**t instead of pretending it's a legitimate way to spend your time in here. People would have more respect for you.

Not being illegal, or against rules doesn't mean that it is equally acceptable as any other practice in game, just as things that are not illegal in real life are not necessarily on an equal moral footing with other activities.

Personally, I think you exhibit great immaturity if you get a hard on from attacking unarmed ships.

I thank you for the tips offered so far, but I think this is where our dialogue ends. I equate in-game griefing to kids pulling the wings off flies: I just think there's something wrong with people who derive pleasure from attacking unarmed craft that offer no reward, kudos or indeed anything.

All you're doing is making a case for Solo Play. It looks more and more attractive by the minute after reading this thread.

 

[Saool]

Folks still get rocked in EvE by players who know how to manipulate C and P intelligently. It wouldn't be any better over here.

Yes that is true, but that is down to how the system is designed, and the CCP have always been happy for EvE to be edgy in that way.

But surly you agree that the Elite C&P system is a joke?

 

[DeletedUser191218]

By the forum mod's standards, this thread is seemingly discrimination btw. Tread lightly....

 

[Arry]

By the forum mod's standards, this thread is seemingly discrimination btw. Tread lightly....

Unfortunately the tone was set very early, in the thread.

 

[Voracity_T]

Very well thank you.

No. "I don't have to resort to such craven posting. Why do you?" The sentence as a whole, refers to the posters. The italic 'I' sets the tone.

I have only made it personal to the hypothetical greifers, asked about in the O.P.

Just because some, have chosen to take it personally, has nothing to do with what I have said.

Craven posting. IE: The post was craven.

Well I'm a murder hobo and I'm not the least offended, I just think the smarmy antaonising posts make your points utterly moot.

The fact of the matter at this point is that the topic has become buried underneath what are quite frankly bad attempts at character defomation.

 

[Bryan K]

A strong opinion, is still just an opinion. I think you're wrong, both absolutely, and morally. You can argue how STRONG your opinion is compared to mine, but it would be a fairly facile thing to waste your time with.

Having lots of experience of being a griefer, doesn't make greifing any more acceptable. It just means you've been exhibiting crass, childish behaviour for longer than others, and that yopu derive pleasure from other people's misfortune for longer than others too. If that's an accolade you aspire to, then you go right ahead, but have the courage to just hold your hand up and admit to being a T**t instead of pretending it's a legitimate way to spend your time in here. People would have more respect for you.

Not being illegal, or against rules doesn't mean that it is equally acceptable as any other practice in game, just as things that are not illegal in real life are not necessarily on an equal moral footing with other activities.

Personally, I think you exhibit great immaturity if you get a hard on from attacking unarmed ships.

I thank you for the tips offered so far, but I think this is where our dialogue ends. I equate in-game griefing to kids pulling the wings off flies: I just think there's something wrong with people who derive pleasure from attacking unarmed craft that offer no reward, kudos or indeed anything.

All you're doing is making a case for Solo Play. It looks more and more attractive by the minute after reading this thread.

Soooo much truth.

No need to resort to solo. There’s always Mobius. That and blocking any wanted heavily-armed player with a massive bounty when you see them in Open supercruise. That also gives the added benefit of triggering certain individuals here.

 

[Screemonster]

Having lots of experience of being a griefer, doesn't make greifing any more acceptable. It just means you've been exhibiting crass, childish behaviour for longer than others, and that yopu derive pleasure from other people's misfortune for longer than others too. If that's an accolade you aspire to, then you go right ahead, but have the courage to just hold your hand up and admit to being a T**t instead of pretending it's a legitimate way to spend your time in here. People would have more respect for you.

He didn't say griefer, he said outlaw.

For instance, a pirate is an outlaw. Piracy being a core part of the game.

And now you're smearing him as a "griefer" for essentially playing the game. What, do you think hatch-breaker limpets should only function on NPCs and if you use them on a player it's griefing?

 

[Arry]

Craven posting. IE: The post was craven.

Well I'm a murder hobo and I'm not the least offended, I just think the smarmy antaonising posts make your points utterly moot.

The fact of the matter at this point is that the topic has become buried underneath what are quite frankly bad attempts at character defomation.

Still wrong.
Again. Who did I insult, in my original post?
I would say that generally, some griefers have gone way, below the point, of being able to have their characters, deformed.

Now perhaps, you would allow the one, the question was put to, answer.

 

[Arry]

Soooo much truth.

No need to resort to solo. There’s always Mobius. That and blocking any wanted heavily-armed player with a massive bounty when you see them in Open supercruise. That also gives the added benefit of triggering certain individuals here.

I must have upset the Mobius guys, because I have applied, to join a number of times and I am still waiting to get in.

 

[pookeyhead]

He didn't say griefer, he said outlaw.

(shrug) He seems to be firmly in defence of the griefer.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

So, earlier this afternoon, this dude in his Gankaconda fitted with the usual hitscan weapons and whatnot interdicted me.

I managed to get away twice by lo-waking, then immediately dropping into normal space again, but he kept following me. Eventually at the third time he served me my rebuy (allow me to boast a little here, I could've easily escaped him for good to be fair; I merely boosted away in a straight line and didn't hi-wake out either because I was too lazy to start the whole chicken run again - was quite curious how far that tactic would get me given the ship I was in, which hadn't been PvP tested thus far).

Is this harrassment/griefing? Genuine question. You could argue either way; from his point of view I was a slippery target but didn't leave the system so was fair game, from mine on the other hand, continuing to follow me around surely is being a bit penetrant and grief inducing?

Ultimately though, when I respawned at the station, I had a smile on my face. Why?

Because the ship I was flying was a PAX fitted, unarmed Dolphin.

 

[Starsong]

If you want my opinion on all this... Read the sig.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Menu logging isn't a legitimate way to avoid the destruction of your ship. You're considering the letter of the law more important than the spirit of the law.

Right.

Now I do get that travelling in open in a cardboard box with 1bn Cr of explo data is asking for trouble because the game legitimately allows someone to shoot them but many would see that killing them isn’t in the spirit of the law.

You yourself have repeatedly told us that killing another player is allowed, by law (if you like) but now you want to introduce ‘the spirit of the law’ when it disadvantages you. That is all others are doing. A full combat rigged Conda blasting a shieldless Dolphin is not in the spirit of the law.

You either have the plain law and no spirit or you have spirit on all sides. You cant cherry pick.