To make ship transfer costs scale off ship insurance.

[Factabulous]

Again I didn't start this thread so you have no business directing your anger at me. You seem like a very irritable and unhappy individual and for your own mental health I'd suggest ignoring things that trigger you like this.

Please don't psychoanalyse people unless you have qualifications. Maybe the 'triggering' comment can point to someone other than Varonica on this thread....

Varonica was talking about the thread, rather than the posters - which is against forum rules:

"2) No Flaming, trolling, harassment, and/or badgering.
To ensure that the forums are a pleasant environment for everyone, we do not permit our forums to be used for personal attacks, and/or harassment of others.".

 

[Kenpachi85]

Please don't psychoanalyse people unless you have qualifications. Maybe the 'triggering' comment can point to someone other than Varonica on this thread....

Varonica was talking about the thread, rather than the posters - which is against forum rules:

"2) No Flaming, trolling, harassment, and/or badgering.
To ensure that the forums are a pleasant environment for everyone, we do not permit our forums to be used for personal attacks, and/or harassment of others.".

No your wrong she was using words like "you" so it was directed at me and being critical towards me for having the audacity to respond in this thread. According to her apparently I should've know this has come up time and time again and I shouldn't be discussing this topic. Only been on these forums for a few weeks so how'd I know that is beyond me. Dont worry though I'm done with this all anyways got better things to do then listen to people bicker about whether something should even be allowed to be discussed which is a lot of what seems to go on here.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Given how expensive ship transfer costs are, coupled with the 3 day mandatory wait time, I think a rebalance is overdue. Using Bubble -> Colonia as an example, you'll find transfer fees like 2.3m to transfer a Sidewinder, 636m to transfer a Corvette and nearly 1 billion for a Cutter. Not only are those costs a bit insulting to my time investment to gather those credits, they don't exactly fit in with the economy and current mission rewards. As why can't commanders, highly prestigious pilots, accept missions to transport other peoples (AI) ships to other stations too? What deems us ineligible? Even if we could, I don't think 1 billion credits would be a realistic reward to simply jump for a few hours. Do you?

The main ships I've had transferred to Colonia from Sol were a couple of combat FDLs with a range of about 15 LY and a class 2A fuel scoop (and no AFMU, so you can't neutron boost very much, not that it would do a lot of good in a ship that slow). They cost me about 150 million credits each in transfer fees.

Would you have accepted a mission to move one of those FDLs to Colonia for only 150 million credits? With a 61 hour time limit?

I also had my Cobra III brought up. That had a range of about 25 LY at the time, and a decent 4C fuel scoop - but it cost under 5 million in transfer fees. Would you have flown it out there for me for that little?

With modern exploration payouts, if you explore on the trip out in the ship you're flying, you should get enough cash just from that to transfer several medium and small ships - or one large. Fly one big ship out personally, set transfers going on your small and medium ships with the money from that trip, build a disposable DBX locally and fly it back, then fly your next big ship out (and by then your small and medium ships will have arrived)

As it is it's cheaper to just build a second fleet there.

I think this is as it should be - do you build a ship locally (accepting that it mostly won't be A-rated, and you'll be somewhat limited on engineering options for the next couple of years) - or do you pay a lot to have a fully A-rated and engineered ship transferred - or do you fly it out yourself - or do you fly the expensive bits over in a fast Anaconda and have the rest transported?

It gives choices which wouldn't really be there if you could just transport your A-rated ships over for the cost of a single easy haulage mission.

 

[aDuckOnQuack]

I love the replies and criticisms here, I really appreciate those saying why they agree/disagree. I'm going to begin by recognising a few people saying this is n^th thread about this, I flipped through the discussion & suggestion pages and searched for the term "transfer" using the search function but couldn't find a thread about this. I'm happy to have this merged into the main thread about this, if there is one. Also huge props to Kenpachi85 for being so active and supporting this thread. There seems to be some heat buildup between some, so lets keep our arguments with the thread/topic and not the individuals[smile]. Jumping in,

One of the good things about ship transfer cost is exactly the point brought up, it emphasis the distance and isolation of Colonia as a remote outpost.
-Varonica

True, after seeing this topic through others' perspective maybe a better way to go about this would be to have a long wait time, rather than exorbitant transfer fees, as an option (still lowering the Cr cost, at the cost of time). Spending a billion credits to move your Cutter is so frustrating because you're not just losing a billion credits, you're losing the time and energy it took to earn those credits.
Colonia should always be a distant colony, it should feel 22k LY from the bubble, right now we use cost to simulate that. By lowering the fee but simulating the time it takes for someone to fly or haul it over is both more realistic and viable to those looking to move home. A lot of transfers are of ships with poorly rated FSDs with small jump ranges either amongst the bubble or far out, in either case that takes a lot of time.
A couple of commanders here have the idea that everyone has infinite credits, that a billion is money you find laying around.

A billion cr is an afternoon of mining.
-Morbad

I assume this remark is a joke though taking it as a serious comment it raises several serious issues with the game. It means that transfer costs will never be an issue to miners, only the 3 day wait will be a concern, further supporting time as the cost rather than credits as an option. Doing so makes transfers more accessible to poorer commanders yet still a decision that carries weight.
Again, Veronica stating

Colonia is a remote outpost, pushing the boundries of civilisation, not a bus trip to the corner shop, although that does appear how some people want it to be

From this thread it's clear to me that the rich are happy with the current fees as the cost is quickly recuperated - they just have to wait 3 days. This is what leads me to believe there should be 2 options: High cost/Fast transfer. Low cost/Slow transfer. You pay a large fee to get your ship placed on a ship hauling vessel, you're paying for floor space, crew costs and insurance for the vessel, which takes 3 days to reach you (this price would be what we have now so it's viable for smaller ships but larger ships become too expensive making you consider the slower but cheaper option. Alternatively you pay a pilot to fly it over, you're paying him for the job and time involved, which would always happen to be your ship rebuy cost . This is cheaper as there are far more willing jobseekers but it takes a lot more time due to the hundreds/thousands of jumps required. (slow transfer is your current ship rebuy & 7-10 days wait? Sounds good IMO)

most long-distance transfers involve ships that aren’t set up for quickly traversing those distances, otherwise you’d have brought it yourself - so either you’re paying for a specialist to take the slow road or you’e paying for some temp refits to make the trip faster, like a pricey fuel scoop or engineered FSD -Kotuma

Similar concept, the faster the transfer the higher the cost. Though worth noting that since upgrades sell for 100% of their purchase price it would yield a net loss of 0cr to temporarily A-rate a ship. Paying the insurance fee of an A rated version of the ship is more logical here.
To finish, Cmdr. Numa here essentially summarising my replies into more polished wording:

Ship transfer fees are fine for what they were primarily made for: Moving ships around the bubble. The more aggravating point is the wait to do it. So unless I have something to do at the destination in another ship, I'm rather flying myself. -Numa

Moving ships around the bubble doesn't cost much but takes time. It's usually just long enough to make you think... "maybe I should do it myself". Time becomes the more expensive fee. You take that principle and apply it everywhere, including moving your ships to Colonia. Anyone can get it moved for an affordable price but you'll have to wait for a grumpy haulage pilot to fly it... it could take 10 days and you're paying your full ship rebuy price... Or would you rather pay the VIP fee to get it stuffed into a sought after space on a long distance bulk-hauler and transported quicker? Maybe you don't want to wait so long and you also don't want to blow millions on transfers, so going back and getting your ship yourself becomes a reasonable 3rd option. I see this as a system which covers most commanders. Your thoughts?

 

[Lestat]

Here another idea. You can buy a sidewinder self destruct and be at the bubble and move each ship your self. There you have your transfer time. It the lowest cost.

Stop trying to lower cost because you are cheap.

 

[varonica]

I love the replies and criticisms here, I really appreciate those saying why they agree/disagree. I'm going to begin by recognising a few people saying this is n^th thread about this, I flipped through the discussion & suggestion pages and searched for the term "transfer" using the search function but couldn't find a thread about this.

Remarkable, they tend to fall into a number of categories, those about time and those about cost and those about both, but they are all essentially complaining about the same thing, making ship transfers easier and/or cheaper.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/476011-reduce-ship-transfer-times?highlight=transfer

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...r-reduced-cost-travel-time?highlight=transfer

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...r-Ship-Module-tranfer-time?highlight=transfer

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-to-improve-ship-transfers?highlight=transfer

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/478041-fee-to-high-to-transfer-ship?highlight=transfer

They all have a few basic things in common, to make it faster/easier/cheaper to move ships around. The only place it is actually expensive and takes a long time to move ships to is Colonia, so I can only see that as an underlying driver for the complaints. They get to Colonia, decide to bring some ships over and bug out at the price and time it takes. Oh well, have a nice read, there's some material there!

 

[Captain Willard]

100 mil an hr? With almost 5000 hrs in the game, I'm lucky to get 20-30 mil an hr. LOL You go.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Incidentally, if you want a "cheaper but slower" compromise approach, there's the "prison taxi". https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/477424-Colonia-Prison-Taxi-14k-LY-to-Colonia
Costs two to four rebuys (rather than just one), and you have to fly the ship half the distance yourself, but still worthwhile in a ship with a lower jump range.

I assume this remark is a joke though taking it as a serious comment it raises several serious issues with the game. It means that transfer costs will never be an issue to miners, only the 3 day wait will be a concern, further supporting time as the cost rather than credits as an option. Doing so makes transfers more accessible to poorer commanders yet still a decision that carries weight.

No joke. Core mining of Void Opals or similar can make well over 100 million credits per hour to a skilled player in a good spot.

But mining isn't the only way to make that sort of money ... if you're around Colonia and raising money for ship transfers, then there are also ways to make 50-100 per hour with passenger missions or cargo haulage missions.

Exploration won't get you that sort of hourly rate, but if you explore on the way out to Colonia (rather than going full speed with neutrons) then the current exploration payouts should get you a few hundred million credits - which won't transfer a big ship, but will transfer several small and medium ships.

From this thread it's clear to me that the rich are happy with the current fees as the cost is quickly recuperated

Quick note - from that screenshot you posted, you're richer than I am even if you don't have any credits as cash right now. My total assets are under 3 billion, and I couldn't afford to buy, A-rate and transfer a Cutter to Colonia without selling several ships. I think that's fine.

Transfer costs actually scale pretty well with how rich you are - if you're rich enough to be buying and A-rating Cutters, you can also afford to transfer them, though it probably hurts. If (like me) you're only rich enough to be working with Kraits and FDLs, the transfer costs are much lower.

Spending a billion credits to move your Cutter is so frustrating because you're not just losing a billion credits, you're losing the time and energy it took to earn those credits.

That seems an odd way to think about it. You're spending a billion credits not to have to move the Cutter yourself. If you move the Cutter yourself, you'll have a billion credits and nothing to do with them. In which case ... why bother spending time earning them in the first place? Surely the only point of earning them is to be able to spend them on things of use to you (like having a Cutter in Colonia without having to fly it out there personally)

 

[Commander William Diffin]

It depends on how the ships are supposed to be transferred to their destinations. If they are transferred by some sort of ferry megaship, then larger ships take more room on the ferry and should cost more to transfer than smaller ships regardless of jump range. But if ships are piloted to their transfer destinations by some sort of valet service, ships with small jump range take longer and are more inconvenient to transfer than ships with large jump range, and should cost more to transfer no matter what size they are.

 

[lenna]

Given how expensive ship transfer costs are, coupled with the 3 day mandatory wait time, I think a rebalance is overdue. Using Bubble -> Colonia as an example, you'll find transfer fees like 2.3m to transfer a Sidewinder, 636m to transfer a Corvette and nearly 1 billion for a Cutter.

The transfer fees are currently scaled by both transfer distance and ship value already - the distance factor is not that unreasonable and if you want to avoid the transfer fees then you can always fly them manually and use cheaper ships bought at the destination to shuttle yourself back.

The bubble -> Colonia prices are not that unreasonable given how long it would likely take you to pick it up yourself - the time saving almost certainly justifies the cost.

 

[Commander William Diffin]

The transfer fees are currently scaled by both transfer distance and ship value already - the distance factor is not that unreasonable and if you want to avoid the transfer fees then you can always fly them manually and use cheaper ships bought at the destination to shuttle yourself back.

The bubble -> Colonia prices are not that unreasonable given how long it would likely take you to pick it up yourself - the time saving almost certainly justifies the cost.

Transfer prices Bubble → Colonia:
Sidewinder: CR1,000,000
Anaconda: CR377,000,000

Flying a 30Ly-range Sidewinder from the Bubble to Colonia would take much more time than flying an 80Ly-range Anaconda on the same journey, but transferring a Sidewinder from the Bubble to Colonia costs over 375 times less than transferring an Anaconda the same distance. Surely jump range should be figured into ship transfer costs.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Me: Here’s some credits, take my ship to this station please, it’s about 18 jumps away.

CMDR: no probs.

20mins later...

CMDR: Your ship is smothered in fines and bounties, integrity is down to 3% which is twice as much as the hull. I sold your weapons. I’ve got your exploration data. I renamed it “The Twanger Mobile”, oh and I’ve just paid someone else to take it to Colonia. Pay me.

 

[znôrt]

some interesting info on this:
ship transfer costs analysis

 

[lenna]

Surely jump range should be figured into ship transfer costs.

Not really - I think the fundamental issue is that ship transfers are merely a tool of convenience but some seem to believe they are an entitlement. The transfers are risk free and generally speaking of fixed transfer time based on distance.

It is like the transferred vessels being loaded onto an out of instance mega-ship that purely transfers ships risk free, and the fees are associated with the insurance costs (ship value) and distance the mega-ship has to travel. It would not matter whether the ship's own jump range is 1 Ly or 1000 Lys, the transfer takes the same time and saves the individual having to do the trips themselves.

Ultimately, if you are moving to Colonia you should probably carefully consider what ship (or ships) you will want or need. IRL if I were to move to the other-side of the world for example, I would fully expect the shipping/transportation costs of all my furniture to eclipse the value of the furniture/goods themselves.

 

[ChaosCloud]

Working as intended.

I beg to differ with it charging 4mil to move a Cutter less than 300 Ly

 

[Raino]

Transfer prices Bubble → Colonia:
Sidewinder: CR1,000,000
Anaconda: CR377,000,000

Flying a 30Ly-range Sidewinder from the Bubble to Colonia would take much more time than flying an 80Ly-range Anaconda on the same journey, but transferring a Sidewinder from the Bubble to Colonia costs over 375 times less than transferring an Anaconda the same distance. Surely jump range should be figured into ship transfer costs.

its called transport, therefore those are haulage prices by weight

 

[Commander William Diffin]

its called transport, therefore those are haulage prices by weight

No it isn't. It's called transfer, as in Ship Transfer. It is not specified that ships are transferred as haulage by some sort of transport megaship. They would more easily be piloted to their transfer destinations by some sort of valet service. In which case jump range and not weight should be the cost-determining factor.

 

[lenna]

No it isn't. It's called transfer, as in Ship Transfer. It is not specified that ships are transferred as haulage by some sort of transport megaship. They would more easily be piloted to their transfer destinations by some sort of valet service. In which case jump range and not weight should be the cost-determining factor.

Given the ship transfer is actually risk free I think using haulage as an analogy is pretty fair - if they were actually flown there then I think you would find the transfer times would be greater and there would be a risk of ship damage/loss en-route.

The term "Ship Transfer" does not actually imply the method of transfer either.

 

[Commander William Diffin]

its called transport, therefore those are haulage prices by weight

The term "Ship Transfer" does not actually imply the method of transfer either.

If either of you had read the thread you would see that I had already pointed that out myself, so there is no need to keep trying to patronize me.

It depends on how the ships are supposed to be transferred to their destinations. If they are transferred by some sort of ferry megaship, then larger ships take more room on the ferry and should cost more to transfer than smaller ships regardless of jump range. But if ships are piloted to their transfer destinations by some sort of valet service, ships with small jump range take longer and are more inconvenient to transfer than ships with large jump range, and should cost more to transfer no matter what size they are.

 

[varonica]

No it isn't. It's called transfer, as in Ship Transfer. It is not specified that ships are transferred as haulage by some sort of transport megaship. They would more easily be piloted to their transfer destinations by some sort of valet service. In which case jump range and not weight should be the cost-determining factor.

But if it's a valet service then you also have to pay the cost of getting the pilot back to the bubble. For instance where I live you can hire a car to drive yourself to the nearest capital city. If there's two of you that can be done in 12 hours taking turns driving, cost to hire car $130 a day unlimited milage, fuel costs around $120, but once you arrive in Perth you have to pay what is called the interchange cost, that is the cost of getting the car back to where it came from, around $1000 to $1500 depending on the car hire company.

So if you have a valet flying it then you need to pay extra to get him home and that has to be payed up front because there's no guarantee of getting a job for him to fly a ship back.

Now I only post this to demonstrate the pointlessness of applying real world mechanics to what is basically a game. There is no ship, there are no valets, FDEV have set a cost and time value on transfer, if they are to make it so it was much less in time and cost for transferring to Colonia then it would be essentially free and instant anywhere in the bubble. It is what it is, I have transferred ships to Colonia, money isn't a big issue there's plenty around, you have to put up with the time but there's plenty to do out there so that's not an issue either, the ability to be patient seems to be the only issue here.