[Video] Open letter from community to Elite Dangerous

Meanwhile...this was originally about whether FDev fix their releases in a timeframe and manner that is considered professional by a reasonable person.

Here is the truth from 2016, yes 2016, already politely asking FDev to fix obvious game breaking bugs in PowerPlay, note that not only is Rubbernuke a funny bugga, but he is also respectful and most importantly, %100 correct https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/what-if-ww2-was-fought-using-powerplay-rules.253666/

You may also note that this request came after nearly a year already, so let us take that back to 2015, we are 2 months from 2020...

All of you who pretend that this game is fine because you don't like Power Play, or PVP or whatever play style it is that you don't care about or acknowledge, should just ask yourself if those of us complaining are being unreasonable in THIS instance.

Don't move the goal posts Stigbob, don't use your straw man tactics, don't pretend mocking others just because they don't play the game like you do is an actual counter point, don't pretend Power Play was not an official release, that came with a manual, that was incorrect, and don't try and pretend that nearly 5 years on it still has not been fixed, despite FDev having two focus groups that resulted in nothing.

Just answer the questions, have FDev given the Power Play players good reason to question the professional ethic of FDev, do they deserve a fix before the next cool thing that doesn't work comes along, are we really the ones being unreasonable here, if nearly 5 years on we are unreasonable, can you give us an amount of time we should wait before we are reasonable?

We now return you to our regular programming "Nothing to see here, everything is fine, people are just unreasonable"

It's internet spaceships matey. Being annoyed this update wasn't about power point is daft as they clearly told us it was about the new player experience you are effectively complaining about the cheese during the entre. You can't expect to insist on a last minute change of direction ignoring the plan and be taken seriously.

Its like with buying games you need to have realistic expectations and read what FDEV have actually told you.

Next time you are thinking about a petition, pop it in the forum and ask people for feedback first. Also avoid all of the "or else" gubbins as its just not a good look and alienates anyone reasonable. The death threats/dev hate were also a huge mistake, don't associate yourself with that stuff at all.

I have no doubt Stigbob will be happy to have gotten a rise out of someone, s/he is not the only one that behaves the way you describe.

Look at it this way. If all the Stigbobs of the world can throw at you is insults you know you have a pretty solid argument, because if there was a chink in your logic, Stigbob will find it :)

I understand that it's frustrating to have problems that are not addressed, but attacking others in the community won't help your cause. Like the ongoing problems with the game and design decisions (not even uncorrected mistakes) that simply defy reason, you just have to ignore the froth & simply state your case more clearly where any ambiguity or potential for mis-interpretation comes up.

Is it a problem with the game or the individual users ?. Its like LEP fury it just boils down to pebcak.

If you don't know what you are buying then you'll never be satisfied.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
... have FDev given the Power Play players good reason to question the professional ethic of FDev, do they deserve a fix before the next cool thing that doesn't work comes along, are we really the ones being unreasonable here, if nearly 5 years on we are unreasonable, can you give us an amount of time we should wait before we are reasonable?

Power Play was an official release, FDev should contrast the facts with what Zac wrote in defence, and ask themselves if the two can exist in the same reality, nearly 5 years on.

I do not think you are being unreasonable in wanting the bugs that most affect you fixed, of course. I also think though that Zac has responded to this particular issue, but it seems some players do not really want to acknowledge the basic project or development dilemma presented, and act as if it was just a matter of unalienable rights, which perhaps is a bit over the top imo.

These are probably among the top items (probably not the only ones) that Zac has just communicated that may answer your issue:

The truth is Elite, after so many years of development, is very complex, as you might imagine with a game with years of development, based in a 1:1 recreation of our Milky Way might be.
Any given bug could range from hundreds of hours to fix through to quick wins. Because of this I don’t believe it would be possible to meet the demands of specifying a set number of top issues being fixed in any given period. But rest assured, the tracker is absolutely being used for the purpose that you are requesting.

Personally, I am pretty sure that FDEV (or any company for that matter) can always do better, be it at coding or at communication, and FDEV is probably working as hard as they can to ensure as much as the community as possible is happy with Elite. But I also think it is quite obvious and hard to disagree with that the larger a game grows (in code and complexity) the more prone it will be to issues and bugs. No matter how experienced and efficient the dev team is the increase of potential chances for bugs probably grows exponentially due to all the different systems interconnections and ensuing spaghetti code. We can argue if Elite should stop adding new stuff and only fix the old but if you do that you run a couple of risks:
  • Spending (wasting) way too many resources (devs and money) commensurate to some of the problems that you need to fix (be it in criticality or number of players affected)
  • Turning the game to the red. Elite monetization is primarily based in releasing paid for full updates/seasons etc. I.e. there are no regular subscriptions or pay2win monetization. Not spending resources in new content reduces the chances to keep the product/service profitable and alive.
That is a very tricky balance to have. On the one hand, as gamers, we would all like all bugs (big or small) fixed no doubt. On the other we also need to be careful and understand that resources need to be applied to new content or else we would not have elite as it is in the first place. Both elements are in constant competition and that is the job of FDEV to judge.
 
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It's internet spaceships matey. Being annoyed this update wasn't about power point is daft as they clearly told us it was about the new player experience you are effectively complaining about the cheese during the entre. You can't expect to insist on a last minute change of direction ignoring the plan and be taken seriously.

Its like with buying games you need to have realistic expectations and read what FDEV have actually told you.

Next time you are thinking about a petition, pop it in the forum and ask people for feedback first. Also avoid all of the "or else" gubbins as its just not a good look and alienates anyone reasonable. The death threats/dev hate were also a huge mistake, don't associate yourself with that stuff at all.



Is it a problem with the game or the individual users ?. Its like LEP fury it just boils down to pebcak.

If you don't know what you are buying then you'll never be satisfied.
Thank you for proving my point Stigbob, Riverside thought I may have been unfair in my representation of your replies.

First the straw man. I am not annoyed about this update, I haven't played in a long time since I wrote my salt filled opus ages ago (did have a look but couldn't find it- shame, it was comedy gold because I was pretty upset at the time and you would have had a field day with it, and rightly so)
Mind you this was thousands of hours into both game play and responding to FDevs requests for feedback (the first time), organising (with countless others) representatives from each power (at FDevs request). Pirates and Imperials and Feds and even the space hippies and bankers were all in agreement and hoped that things would change (spoiler:they didn't) and FDev admitted they had wasted 1000's of peoples time on a game that they hadn't thought through, had released prematurely, and didn't know how to fix without breaking something else (Deja Vu?).

I know from your replies you have no knowledge of this and don't care (even though you seem to care a lot) but I won't let you rewrite history to make a point (assuming you have a point beyond "Hurr Durr, buyer beware").
I've told you this was never about value and quite the opposite, I think the business model and legacy promises are one of the biggest reasons we find ourselves in this mess and am happy to pay a monthly subscription to be free of both, but agree I am one of many and it is an unpopular idea.

Whether you like it or not, this happened, and then happened again though I wasn't a part of it, before Sandro became a marked slave and went dark.
We didn't imagine it, Fdev pretended they knew what was happening and we just hadn't worked it out at first, then they admitted we were right and no one knew what was happening and they had been talking out their asp for over a year, but they were on it now and with feedback and patience we could hold hands and fix it together (Kumbuya).

That was called communication, albeit a little late but hey, communication right, it will be OK, and then nothing happened except for a change they made that made 5C worse. So the only outcome from all of that work from players, given free of charge and after having already been told all vast efforts up to now had been wasted, resulted in FDev making it worse.

I lack the patience to get burnt twice so I wasn't a part of the second round, but many people from all powers tried again, some proposals were made by Sandro and then...........

So that is the experience of Power Play, over nearly 5 years, and the main reason that people only use it for the modules, which in themselves create a balance issue but I won't digress. It is also a perfect, years long example of exactly what this petition is about and exactly what you have tried to bury with 50 pages of Hurr Durr, as if your lack of understanding of what others are talking about negates reality (spoiler: it doesn't)

There are many other stories that I have read but do not have direct knowledge of so, unlike some, I stick with what I care about and know, Power Play.

My points are facts, backed up by thousands of posts, over nearly 5 years, including posts from FDev themselves, if you don't believe me may I respectfully suggest you do one of two things before you start wasting more of peoples time with replies to questions nobody asked.

1) Pause for a second before your next asinine reply and do what you always tell others to do and check what FDev have actually said vs what they have done in THIS instance, twice.

2) Stop commenting on others experience (to the point where you have made this thread 50 pages longer than it needs to be) when you have admitted little knowledge of what you are talking about in regards to a negative experience in the areas that interest you, whilst ironically laughing at those that do.

I haven't signed this petition for a number of reasons, the first of which is I gave up on petitions in life a long time ago and decided to use historical analysis instead, this tells me this petition is a waste of time but I am here in support and agreement and in the hope that I am wrong, but I agree with you that this wont affect anything, sadly.

I am not ashamed to admit that despite my absence, the experiences I created with my fellow players, (allies and opponents), were so good that I'm still here hoping FDev will show some pride, and take responsibility for the clusterfunk that was an official release nearly 5 years ago, and actually do something to fix it, other than words, or at least have the balls to remove it because they have admitted it is broken years ago.

It is also the culture and foundation of all of their other subsequent issues, as once it became OK to just let Power Play die, they just kept building on a code and vision they already knew 5 years ago was becoming unwieldy and causing them to not release working features they understood and could control in a professional manner.
This is documented proof of why many now feel that FDev are full of ship, in the case of Power Play they have had nearly 5 years to follow through, as they have publicly stated they will, at least twice, and yet.....

So no "matey", we didn't imagine it, it isn't trivial, it was official and still is and still doesn't work 5 years later, but you know that already or you would have been man enough to address the questions, instead of talking about cheese (I'll take the tasty ad hominem on a straw man cracker thanks)... which by the way even with your 10 year plan deflections we are into the main course, don't forget to leave room for dessert ;)
 
Personally, I am pretty sure that FDEV (or any company for that matter) can always do better, be it at coding or at communication, and FDEV is probably working as hard as they can to ensure as much as the community as possible is happy with Elite. But I also think it is quite obvious and hard to disagree with that the larger a game grows (in code and complexity) the more prone it will be to issues and bugs. No matter how experienced and efficient the dev team is the increase of potential chances for bugs probably grows exponentially due to all the different systems interconnections and ensuing spaghetti code. We can argue if Elite should stop adding new stuff and only fix the old but if you do that you run a couple of risks:
I'm not fully convinced that FDev is "working as hard as they can", but I agree with you concerning the complexity vs. bugs dilemma. The problem is that they are trying to build something after they released it to the public instead of before like most gaming companies do (though the trend of releasing alpha and beta software is starting to affect more and more games).

It reminds me of a hotel I stayed at once that was in the middle of a remodel. It wasn't being remodeled when I booked a room, but when I got there it was a serious mess - scaffolding, tools, dust, construction supplies and workers everywhere. It was noisy, and a variety of the amenities were closed or unavailable. Yet I was still charged as if I was staying at a nice, finished hotel. It was one of the worst experiences (hotel-wise) that I've had, and I left a pretty nasty (think EBL for hospice) review of the hotel. They should have just closed the hotel for renovations. Trying to renovate a hotel and serve guests at the same time was just a disaster in the making.

Yet this is exactly what we have in Elite Dangerous. Personally, I actually wish this year had NO updates except bug fixes, and that all these Arx and Fleet Carriers were saved for New Era, which might well be a NEW hotel that we'll all move into. So all you people demanding new content every month (I'm talking things like fleet carriers and ice planets, not CGs), I blame you as much as I blame FDev for this mess.
 
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Thank you for proving my point Stigbob, Riverside thought I may have been unfair in my representation of your replies.

First the straw man. I am not annoyed about this update, I haven't played in a long time since I wrote my salt filled opus ages ago (did have a look but couldn't find it- shame, it was comedy gold because I was pretty upset at the time and you would have had a field day with it, and rightly so)
Mind you this was thousands of hours into both game play and responding to FDevs requests for feedback (the first time), organising (with countless others) representatives from each power (at FDevs request). Pirates and Imperials and Feds and even the space hippies and bankers were all in agreement and hoped that things would change (spoiler:they didn't) and FDev admitted they had wasted 1000's of peoples time on a game that they hadn't thought through, had released prematurely, and didn't know how to fix without breaking something else (Deja Vu?).

I know from your replies you have no knowledge of this and don't care (even though you seem to care a lot) but I won't let you rewrite history to make a point (assuming you have a point beyond "Hurr Durr, buyer beware").
I've told you this was never about value and quite the opposite, I think the business model and legacy promises are one of the biggest reasons we find ourselves in this mess and am happy to pay a monthly subscription to be free of both, but agree I am one of many and it is an unpopular idea.

Whether you like it or not, this happened, and then happened again though I wasn't a part of it, before Sandro became a marked slave and went dark.
We didn't imagine it, Fdev pretended they knew what was happening and we just hadn't worked it out at first, then they admitted we were right and no one knew what was happening and they had been talking out their asp for over a year, but they were on it now and with feedback and patience we could hold hands and fix it together (Kumbuya).

That was called communication, albeit a little late but hey, communication right, it will be OK, and then nothing happened except for a change they made that made 5C worse. So the only outcome from all of that work from players, given free of charge and after having already been told all vast efforts up to now had been wasted, resulted in FDev making it worse.

I lack the patience to get burnt twice so I wasn't a part of the second round, but many people from all powers tried again, some proposals were made by Sandro and then...........

So that is the experience of Power Play, over nearly 5 years, and the main reason that people only use it for the modules, which in themselves create a balance issue but I won't digress. It is also a perfect, years long example of exactly what this petition is about and exactly what you have tried to bury with 50 pages of Hurr Durr, as if your lack of understanding of what others are talking about negates reality (spoiler: it doesn't)

There are many other stories that I have read but do not have direct knowledge of so, unlike some, I stick with what I care about and know, Power Play.

My points are facts, backed up by thousands of posts, over nearly 5 years, including posts from FDev themselves, if you don't believe me may I respectfully suggest you do one of two things before you start wasting more of peoples time with replies to questions nobody asked.

1) Pause for a second before your next asinine reply and do what you always tell others to do and check what FDev have actually said vs what they have done in THIS instance, twice.

2) Stop commenting on others experience (to the point where you have made this thread 50 pages longer than it needs to be) when you have admitted little knowledge of what you are talking about in regards to a negative experience in the areas that interest you, whilst ironically laughing at those that do.

I haven't signed this petition for a number of reasons, the first of which is I gave up on petitions in life a long time ago and decided to use historical analysis instead, this tells me this petition is a waste of time but I am here in support and agreement and in the hope that I am wrong, but I agree with you that this wont affect anything, sadly.

I am not ashamed to admit that despite my absence, the experiences I created with my fellow players, (allies and opponents), were so good that I'm still here hoping FDev will show some pride, and take responsibility for the clusterfunk that was an official release nearly 5 years ago, and actually do something to fix it, other than words, or at least have the balls to remove it because they have admitted it is broken years ago.

It is also the culture and foundation of all of their other subsequent issues, as once it became OK to just let Power Play die, they just kept building on a code and vision they already knew 5 years ago was becoming unwieldy and causing them to not release working features they understood and could control in a professional manner.
This is documented proof of why many now feel that FDev are full of ship, in the case of Power Play they have had nearly 5 years to follow through, as they have publicly stated they will, at least twice, and yet.....

So no "matey", we didn't imagine it, it isn't trivial, it was official and still is and still doesn't work 5 years later, but you know that already or you would have been man enough to address the questions, instead of talking about cheese (I'll take the tasty ad hominem on a straw man cracker thanks)... which by the way even with your 10 year plan deflections we are into the main course, don't forget to leave room for dessert ;)

Just look at the sheer size of that post.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I'm not fully convinced that FDev is "working as hard as they can", but I agree with you concerning the complexity vs. bugs dilemma. The problem is that they are trying to build something after they released it to the public instead of before like most gaming companies do (though the trend of releasing alpha and beta software is starting to affect more and more games).

As I mentioned, I am pretty sure that FDEV (or any company for that matter) can always do better, be it at coding or at communication etc. So read my "as hard as they can" from that angle of course. Alternatively look at it from the opposite side of the argument, i.e. I do not think FDEV has a plan to torpedo themselves in the product that has reported the largest of revenues (possibly also profits) to FDEV in all its history.

It reminds me of a hotel I stayed at once that was in the middle of a remodel. It wasn't being remodeled when I booked a room, but when I got there it was a serious mess - scaffolding, tools, dust, construction supplies and workers everywhere. It was noisy, and a variety of the amenities were closed or unavailable. Yet I was still charged as if I was staying at a nice, finished hotel. It was one of the worst experiences (hotel-wise) that I've had, and I left a pretty nasty (think EBL for hospice) review of the hotel. They should have just closed the hotel for renovations and refunded anyone who had rooms booked during that time. Trying to renovate a hotel and serve guests at the same time was just a disaster in the making.

Yet this is exactly what we have in Elite Dangerous. Personally, I actually wish this year had NO updates except bug fixes, and that all these Arx and Fleet Carriers were saved for New Era, which might well be a NEW hotel that we'll all move into. So all you people demanding new content every month (I'm talking things like fleet carriers and ice planets, not CGs), I blame you as much as I blame FDev for this mess.

I guess how well or bad you transpose an example (or any other example posted here) to Elite is precisely at the heart of this mega thread. Let me have a go at it:

I once had a colleague that told me an experience exactly as you described. I was booked to go to that same Hotel the very next day he did. Too late to change my bookings and I was quite upset even before the start, pretty much in the mood to sue the heck out of the thing if needed or ask for my money back. When I went there I observed a Hotel in a very much functional state except that one of the evenings I needed an early sleep I heard some construction noises at around 10:00 that did not allow me to sleep well untill 11:00, other than that the restaurant was great and the gym was in perfect state. I also brought some colleagues to the Hotel bar and apparently one of the brews was missing due to the renovations in the cellar. That was all, same Hotel.
 
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Thats no moo- wait wrong franchise.

Seriously though thats it? I was expecting somethkng more considering how well written it was.

Expect a very stern written letter in your inbox today Mr. Bob, if that IS your real name!

Its a massive post with my name in the first sentence from some dude who's started posting more about me than the game itself, I'm OK with not actually reading it.
 
Thank you for proving my point Stigbob, Riverside thought I may have been unfair in my representation of your replies.

First the straw man. I am not annoyed about this update, I haven't played in a long time since I wrote my salt filled opus ages ago (did have a look but couldn't find it- shame, it was comedy gold because I was pretty upset at the time and you would have had a field day with it, and rightly so)
Mind you this was thousands of hours into both game play and responding to FDevs requests for feedback (the first time), organising (with countless others) representatives from each power (at FDevs request). Pirates and Imperials and Feds and even the space hippies and bankers were all in agreement and hoped that things would change (spoiler:they didn't) and FDev admitted they had wasted 1000's of peoples time on a game that they hadn't thought through, had released prematurely, and didn't know how to fix without breaking something else (Deja Vu?).

I know from your replies you have no knowledge of this and don't care (even though you seem to care a lot) but I won't let you rewrite history to make a point (assuming you have a point beyond "Hurr Durr, buyer beware").
I've told you this was never about value and quite the opposite, I think the business model and legacy promises are one of the biggest reasons we find ourselves in this mess and am happy to pay a monthly subscription to be free of both, but agree I am one of many and it is an unpopular idea.

Whether you like it or not, this happened, and then happened again though I wasn't a part of it, before Sandro became a marked slave and went dark.
We didn't imagine it, Fdev pretended they knew what was happening and we just hadn't worked it out at first, then they admitted we were right and no one knew what was happening and they had been talking out their asp for over a year, but they were on it now and with feedback and patience we could hold hands and fix it together (Kumbuya).

That was called communication, albeit a little late but hey, communication right, it will be OK, and then nothing happened except for a change they made that made 5C worse. So the only outcome from all of that work from players, given free of charge and after having already been told all vast efforts up to now had been wasted, resulted in FDev making it worse.

I lack the patience to get burnt twice so I wasn't a part of the second round, but many people from all powers tried again, some proposals were made by Sandro and then...........

So that is the experience of Power Play, over nearly 5 years, and the main reason that people only use it for the modules, which in themselves create a balance issue but I won't digress. It is also a perfect, years long example of exactly what this petition is about and exactly what you have tried to bury with 50 pages of Hurr Durr, as if your lack of understanding of what others are talking about negates reality (spoiler: it doesn't)

There are many other stories that I have read but do not have direct knowledge of so, unlike some, I stick with what I care about and know, Power Play.

My points are facts, backed up by thousands of posts, over nearly 5 years, including posts from FDev themselves, if you don't believe me may I respectfully suggest you do one of two things before you start wasting more of peoples time with replies to questions nobody asked.

1) Pause for a second before your next asinine reply and do what you always tell others to do and check what FDev have actually said vs what they have done in THIS instance, twice.

2) Stop commenting on others experience (to the point where you have made this thread 50 pages longer than it needs to be) when you have admitted little knowledge of what you are talking about in regards to a negative experience in the areas that interest you, whilst ironically laughing at those that do.

I haven't signed this petition for a number of reasons, the first of which is I gave up on petitions in life a long time ago and decided to use historical analysis instead, this tells me this petition is a waste of time but I am here in support and agreement and in the hope that I am wrong, but I agree with you that this wont affect anything, sadly.

I am not ashamed to admit that despite my absence, the experiences I created with my fellow players, (allies and opponents), were so good that I'm still here hoping FDev will show some pride, and take responsibility for the clusterfunk that was an official release nearly 5 years ago, and actually do something to fix it, other than words, or at least have the balls to remove it because they have admitted it is broken years ago.

It is also the culture and foundation of all of their other subsequent issues, as once it became OK to just let Power Play die, they just kept building on a code and vision they already knew 5 years ago was becoming unwieldy and causing them to not release working features they understood and could control in a professional manner.
This is documented proof of why many now feel that FDev are full of ship, in the case of Power Play they have had nearly 5 years to follow through, as they have publicly stated they will, at least twice, and yet.....

So no "matey", we didn't imagine it, it isn't trivial, it was official and still is and still doesn't work 5 years later, but you know that already or you would have been man enough to address the questions, instead of talking about cheese (I'll take the tasty ad hominem on a straw man cracker thanks)... which by the way even with your 10 year plan deflections we are into the main course, don't forget to leave room for dessert ;)

I tried reading through this. It was not worth the attempt. It's just noise, noise, noise; a firehose blast of opinion and meandering, without any kind of focus, which entirely wraps up to "my opinion matters, yours is wrong, because I think so".
 

DeletedUser191218

D
Out of curiosity, has there ever been a poll/survey of ED players asking their views on current state of the game? There are always loud voices on either side but it's difficult to get an idea of where the consensus lies.
 
Right. Squid stews in the oven I have some time to kill. Sorry everyone postzilla incoming.

Thank you for proving my point Stigbob, Riverside thought I may have been unfair in my representation of your replies.

First the straw man. I am not annoyed about this update, I haven't played in a long time since I wrote my salt filled opus ages ago (did have a look but couldn't find it- shame, it was comedy gold because I was pretty upset at the time and you would have had a field day with it, and rightly so)

So your annoyed about the game in an enduring way, rather than just upset about this patch. OK, you should think about moving on its just a video game and its obviously not something you enjoy which is the whole point of video games.

Mind you this was thousands of hours into both game play and responding to FDevs requests for feedback (the first time), organising (with countless others) representatives from each power (at FDevs request). Pirates and Imperials and Feds and even the space hippies and bankers were all in agreement and hoped that things would change (spoiler:they didn't) and FDev admitted they had wasted 1000's of peoples time on a game that they hadn't thought through, had released prematurely, and didn't know how to fix without breaking something else (Deja Vu?).

No not deju vu, since I've never heard any of that before.

I'm an end user, I just looked into the product they were selling, checked it fitted my preferences, read up on the plan for the future, tried the demo liked it all and got the game.

They haven't deviated from what they were selling. Things have taken longer than we thought but that's down to the pricing and the DLC release method having a rethink in response to the playerbases reaction to Horizons.

I got a free season out of that which I was expecting to pay for so like ARX its a bonus for me.

I know from your replies you have no knowledge of this and don't care (even though you seem to care a lot) but I won't let you rewrite history to make a point (assuming you have a point beyond "Hurr Durr, buyer beware").
I've told you this was never about value and quite the opposite, I think the business model and legacy promises are one of the biggest reasons we find ourselves in this mess and am happy to pay a monthly subscription to be free of both, but agree I am one of many and it is an unpopular idea.

We are not in a mess, you are in a mess. Player and subreddit visitor numbers are steady there is no sign of doom quite the opposite more content is incoming and there's more DLC to follow it. Good times.

Every "legacy promise" ever made was made under the very clear proviso that its a work in progress, it depends on technical feasibility and financial success to move forward. Nothing beyond the base release was ever a certainty, the only way you can have bought in without knowing that is deliberate ignorance.

You having a PP meltdown now is based on your internal theorycrafted roadmap, it doesn't exist outside of your head. The world cannot be reasonably expected to accommodate something you dreamt up.

Whether you like it or not, this happened, and then happened again though I wasn't a part of it, before Sandro became a marked slave and went dark.
We didn't imagine it, Fdev pretended they knew what was happening and we just hadn't worked it out at first, then they admitted we were right and no one knew what was happening and they had been talking out their asp for over a year, but they were on it now and with feedback and patience we could hold hands and fix it together (Kumbuya).

Sandro stopped talking to us when furious nerds started jumping on every single post he ever made throwing fits at him. I only got to read the non-moderated ones as well. I dread to think what they were like before.

That was called communication, albeit a little late but hey, communication right, it will be OK, and then nothing happened except for a change they made that made 5C worse. So the only outcome from all of that work from players, given free of charge and after having already been told all vast efforts up to now had been wasted, resulted in FDev making it worse.

I lack the patience to get burnt twice so I wasn't a part of the second round, but many people from all powers tried again, some proposals were made by Sandro and then...........

You seem over focussed on the guy, he's just one part of the dev team. I think the only reason he drew flak was because he was actually willing to talk to us until the less socially skilled players stopped him doing that.

So that is the experience of Power Play, over nearly 5 years, and the main reason that people only use it for the modules, which in themselves create a balance issue but I won't digress. It is also a perfect, years long example of exactly what this petition is about and exactly what you have tried to bury with 50 pages of Hurr Durr, as if your lack of understanding of what others are talking about negates reality (spoiler: it doesn't)

There are many other stories that I have read but do not have direct knowledge of so, unlike some, I stick with what I care about and know, Power Play.

I think you'd be happier buying completed games, you seem unsuited to kickstarters or works in progress. I'm OK with them because I'm fine with the plan inevitably changing.

My points are facts, backed up by thousands of posts, over nearly 5 years, including posts from FDev themselves, if you don't believe me may I respectfully suggest you do one of two things before you start wasting more of peoples time with replies to questions nobody asked.

Your points are all opinions, and seem to be consistently demonstrably wrong.

1) Pause for a second before your next asinine reply and do what you always tell others to do and check what FDev have actually said vs what they have done in THIS instance, twice.

Work in progress, technical feasibility may have blocked certain things. We all knew this.

2) Stop commenting on others experience (to the point where you have made this thread 50 pages longer than it needs to be) when you have admitted little knowledge of what you are talking about in regards to a negative experience in the areas that interest you, whilst ironically laughing at those that do.

I seem more knowledgeable about it than you, your entire point is that you failed to understand kickstarters and that plans might change.

I haven't signed this petition for a number of reasons, the first of which is I gave up on petitions in life a long time ago and decided to use historical analysis instead, this tells me this petition is a waste of time but I am here in support and agreement and in the hope that I am wrong, but I agree with you that this wont affect anything, sadly.

That's not fair, its a great petition, Its launched a fair few forum memes already.

On a serious note, I don't like gamers trying to force dev companies to do things their way right now of else. I like FDEV's stuff I don't want it ruined by an internet committee of self appointed "experts" with a blind spot for detail.

I am not ashamed to admit that despite my absence, the experiences I created with my fellow players, (allies and opponents), were so good that I'm still here hoping FDev will show some pride, and take responsibility for the clusterfunk that was an official release nearly 5 years ago, and actually do something to fix it, other than words, or at least have the balls to remove it because they have admitted it is broken years ago.

Dev bashing, shove that toxic paragraph.

It is also the culture and foundation of all of their other subsequent issues, as once it became OK to just let Power Play die, they just kept building on a code and vision they already knew 5 years ago was becoming unwieldy and causing them to not release working features they understood and could control in a professional manner.
This is documented proof of why many now feel that FDev are full of ship, in the case of Power Play they have had nearly 5 years to follow through, as they have publicly stated they will, at least twice, and yet.....

Dev bashing, same reply as above.

So no "matey", we didn't imagine it, it isn't trivial, it was official and still is and still doesn't work 5 years later, but you know that already or you would have been man enough to address the questions, instead of talking about cheese (I'll take the tasty ad hominem on a straw man cracker thanks)... which by the way even with your 10 year plan deflections we are into the main course, don't forget to leave room for dessert ;)

Read this its why FDEV don't and shouldn't care what you think, in the words of the articles author they don't make games for the toxic 0.1% :

 
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