The ADS

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

When we're talking compromises... What still baffles me is that I've seen none of the ADS lovers so far who would be willing to compromise with a mutual exclusive solution. Not one of you seems to like it (and Frontier didn't offer it, mind you. just an academic consideration), though that could be the only solution that would have a high chance to be accepted by most ADS haters. Whenever this proposal came up, we usually got reflexively the counter question "WHY".

Now tell me, WHY NOT - if you like the old mechanics so much? Doesn't it make your whole endeavors look a little hypocritical?

If you want me to stay, come up with something new and spare me those endless repetitions. Or just shut up move on.

Back in lab mode again...

Really?
You're still pushing this line?

I've told you countless times that I'd accept a mutually exclusive solution. I see no reason why the two systems SHOULD be mutually exclusive, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take the old ADS back and junk the pointless FSS in a heartbeat.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I do love it when I'm partly quoted
Keep it

I aim to please

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Thats very nice of you to say so. Yeah the FSS really spoiled my fun

I'm pretty sure you've more than made up for it here in the forums.

 

[askavir]

When we're talking compromises... What still baffles me is that I've seen none of the ADS lovers so far who would be willing to compromise with a mutual exclusive solution. Not one of you seems to like it (and Frontier didn't offer it, mind you. just an academic consideration), though that could be the only solution that would have a high chance to be accepted by most ADS haters. Whenever this proposal came up, we usually got reflexively the counter question "WHY".

Now tell me, WHY NOT - if you like the old mechanics so much? Doesn't it make your whole endeavors look a little hypocritical?

If you want me to stay, come up with something new and spare me those endless repetitions. Or just shut up move on.

I suspect many, if not all the pro-ADS, given the choice of either just the ADS or just the FSS, would pick just the ADS without any issue, including your truly. After all, if they were able to find enjoyment in exploration before just with the ADS, then why would that change?

That being said, I get a distinct feeling that your objection to any compromise and relentless insistence on a mutually exclusive solution, even if it was not necessary, carries a certain degree of spite. Like if you feel that the pro-ADS need to be punished somehow for not liking the changes. Am I wrong?

Back in lab mode again...

See you in 5 minutes...

 

[zimms]

If 2020 really does bring space legs, I guess aiming down sights won't be out of the question.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Really?
You're still pushing this line?

I've told you countless times that I'd accept a mutually exclusive solution. I see no reason why the two systems SHOULD be mutually exclusive

Just a few pages ago Max and I reiterated a compromise we've been reiterating since about day 1 since the FSS became a thing. And we're no where near the only ones who were iterating and reiterating that same compromise many people have been iterating.

Iterating!

 

[Vandaahl]

I suspect many, if not all the pro-ADS, given the choice of either just the ADS or just the FSS, would pick just the ADS without any issue, including your truly. After all, if they were able to find enjoyment in exploration before just with the ADS, then why would that change?

If asked, but thats totally not realistic, in my eyes. I would go with the barest possible minimum, and thats (I think) empty wire frames to show a tad from the systems composition.

FSS is here to stay, and trying to revert that would indeed be foolish, but if they could just add that, I'd go for that.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But these are very new tones to me. I still remember the outcry when Ziljan originally came up with this proposal. You guys must feel really desperate now that you have changed your mind.

Unlike your decision to stop trolling participating this thread, I haven't changed my mind. Now I know you're not going to take my word for it. So maybe ask Max.

 

[Ezren]

I like the FSS, now that I've used it. It's more interesting than just pointing my ship at a bunch of distant rocks.

Detailed Surface Scanner took some getting used to but nailing those efficiency bonuses is easy now.

 

[WR3ND]

Airing our perceptions and opinions of others aside for a moment...

What was Ziljan's compromise suggestion again?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Unlike your decision to stop trolling participating this thread, I haven't changed my mind. Now I know you're not going to take my word for it. So maybe ask Max.

Yup, we have both been compaigning for that compromise. Though that compromise won't help everyone. I can't see FDev creating a compromise that will completely bypass the use of the FSS. But there are many things within the FSS that could be improved upon to make it better for people that want to use it as little as possible.

My take is:

1. After a honk, in the system map are black orbs/wireframes of the main planets. Nothing in the Nav panel so you can't target them. You should be able to tell if there is something of interest when it comes to system configuration. But it won't be full proof.

2. You see something you like, so you enter the FSS, when you hone in on a body without zooming, this will fill the system map with the most likely type of planet and add an unknown to the to the nav panel. You can now select these and fly to the planets. This gives you options on how much information you gather and the opportunity to fly to each planet to get the information instead of zooming.

3. You can still zoom in and get first discovered by, but it is now optional and you can just fly there instead to get the same thing.

Personally I think that is the only compromise FDev would be willing to go with, if one is needed. It hopefully would cater to nearlly all types of exploration. The main issue are the people that just don't want to use the FSS, but I just can't see FDev adding a module that allows people to completely bypass it.

Just to be clear to everyone out there, I am not being vindictive or trying to ruin your fun, its nothing personal. All of the above changes do not tread on the toes of the FSS.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yup, we have both been compaigning for that compromise. Though that compromise won't help everyone. I can't see FDev creating a compromise that will completely bypass the use of the FSS. But there are many things within the FSS that could be improved upon to make it better for people that want to use it as little as possible.

My take is:

1. After a honk, in the system map are black orbs/wireframes of the main planets. Nothing in the Nav panel so you can't target them. You should be able to tell if there is something of interest when it comes to system configuration. But it won't be full proof.

2. You see something you like, so you enter the FSS, when you hone in on a body without zooming, this will fill the system map with the most likely type of planet and add an unknown to the to the nav panel. You can now select these and fly to the planets. This gives you options on how much information you gather and the opportunity to fly to each planet to get the information instead of zooming.

3. You can still zoom in and get first discovered by, but it is now optional and you can just fly there instead to get the same thing.

Personally I think that is the only compromise FDev would be willing to go with, if one is needed. It hopefully would cater to nearlly all types of exploration. The main issue are the people that just don't want to use the FSS, but I just can't see FDev adding a module that allows people to completely bypass it.

Just to be clear to everyone out there, I am not being vindictive or trying to ruin your fun, its nothing personal. All of the above changes do not tread on the toes of the FSS.

I'm not sure why you feel step 2 needs to be separate. Why can't the bodies appear in the system map without needing to mess around with the FSS?

 

[WR3ND]

Yup, we have both been compaigning for that compromise. Though that compromise won't help everyone. I can't see FDev creating a compromise that will completely bypass the use of the FSS. But there are many things within the FSS that could be improved upon to make it better for people that want to use it as little as possible.

My take is:

1. After a honk, in the system map are black orbs/wireframes of the main planets. Nothing in the Nav panel so you can't target them. You should be able to tell if there is something of interest when it comes to system configuration. But it won't be full proof.

2. You see something you like, so you enter the FSS, when you hone in on a body without zooming, this will fill the system map with the most likely type of planet and add an unknown to the to the nav panel. You can now select these and fly to the planets. This gives you options on how much information you gather and the opportunity to fly to each planet to get the information instead of zooming.

3. You can still zoom in and get first discovered by, but it is now optional and you can just fly there instead to get the same thing.

Personally I think that is the only compromise FDev would be willing to go with, if one is needed. It hopefully would cater to nearlly all types of exploration. The main issue are the people that just don't want to use the FSS, but I just can't see FDev adding a module that allows people to completely bypass it.

Just to be clear to everyone out there, I am not being vindictive or trying to ruin your fun, its nothing personal. All of the above changes do not tread on the toes of the FSS.

Yeah, my main issue with this is that it would still require use of the FSS for exploration instead of some first-person, piloting my ships to explore type of alternative. I don't mind using the FSS as an option, even with it being a more efficient one, needing to use an extra module slot for additional functionality, or similar. I'm not fond of more or less being required to use it by parking my ships and leaving the cockpit view, parallax not withstanding.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm not sure why you feel step 2 needs to be separate. Why can't the bodies appear in the system map without needing to mess around with the FSS?

You get black orbs in the system map, but untargetable. You hone in on the planets in the FSS (you pinpoint their location) which then allows you to target them. If they are targetable without the use of the FSS, then the FSS can be completely bypassed and I can't see FDev doing that.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yeah, my main issue with this is that it would still require use of the FSS for exploration instead of some first-person, piloting my ships to explore type of alternative. I don't mind using the FSS as an option, even with it being a more efficient one, needing to use an extra module slot for additional functionality, or similar. I'm not fond of more or less being required to use it by parking my ships and leaving the cockpit view, parallax not withstanding.

I know, but as I said in my post, I can't see FDev adding an option that allows you to completely bypass the FSS. I honestly think the best thing to do is to ask for changes with the FSS to make it better for your style of exploration.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I know, but as I said in my post, I can't see FDev adding an option ...

Say no more

 

[WR3ND]

I know, but as I said in my post, I can't see FDev adding an option that allows you to completely bypass the FSS. I honestly think the best thing to do is to ask for changes with the FSS to make it better for your style of exploration.

I'm not sure if you're meaning the view itself and the parking of ships are an intrinsic and necessary part of the FSS or not. I likely wouldn't mind a variant of the FSS that allows me to use it from the cockpit while piloting my ship around, and for people who prefer the view or care to explore in less maneuverable ships than I do, the current FSS view would still be an option, and likely still more efficient.

But anyway, this is a tangent to the issue some people have with not getting an overview of the system with things like black bodies after the honk or similar.

 

[Thatchinho]

Oh jeez... Ok folks, own up, who sounded the ADS horn?

Only managed to get so far reading through. Anything new been brought up?

Anyway, may as well throw some controversy in...

@Enderby , @Scytale The David Lynch version is great.

(You just have to treat it as a film in its own right, and not a cinematic version of the book )

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm not sure if you're meaning the view itself and the parking of ships are an intrinsic and necessary part of the FSS or not. I likely wouldn't mind a variant of the FSS that allows me to use it from the cockpit while piloting my ship around, and for people who prefer the view or care to explore in less maneuverable ships than I do, the current FSS view would still be an option, and likely still more efficient.

I think that would require significant code changes, probably a whole rewrite. The FSS doesn't take a snapshot of the system, its a live view, so if you are moving, it will be virtually impossible to use. But as it goes I would have preferred the FSS as a pop up like station services in your cockpit.

But anyway, this is a tangent to the issue some people have with not getting an overview of the system with things like black bodies after the honk or similar.

Which was what I said should be in there in the compromise. You just won't be able to target them.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Personally, the mini game becomes a chore when I have to do it every single system. I wouldn't have minded to use it in a more focused way, in systems which I want to explore. It makes more sense to me to investigate the system in ever growing detail. The FSS bundles system investigation with planet investigation. I have to FSS a system to find out if I want to FSS a system.

Works for me.

Well I'd prefer if system spectrum would be shown in HUD after honk scan. That would eliminate need to drop throttle and activate FSS in marginal systems....Simple fix.