This has nothing to do with bad care. It also happens in the Wilderness
Why are there no Marine Mammals Included? Penguins? Sea Lions? Otters?
- Thread starter PlanetZooGamer1
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Nice, i somewhat understand you ! I assumed you also wanted a huge vivarium version for the bigger fish/mammals..
In this case, they really need to develop the current vivarium system better.
Personally I like snakes/spiders, but with the current state of Vivariums i'm not that impressed.
For me it doesn't add much in the game.. Happy for the people, who thinks this is fine/good. I'm hoping for a more creative way of decorating/creating your vivarium.
When this happens, I hope they extend this feature to the smaller mammals and fish as well..
In this case, they really need to develop the current vivarium system better.
Personally I like snakes/spiders, but with the current state of Vivariums i'm not that impressed.
For me it doesn't add much in the game.. Happy for the people, who thinks this is fine/good. I'm hoping for a more creative way of decorating/creating your vivarium.
When this happens, I hope they extend this feature to the smaller mammals and fish as well..
You wouldn't be able to make a habitat big enough or deep enough for Whales. If you look at what Frontier have implemented already with animals required land and water space, a whales habitat would take up the entire map for it alone and need to be as deep.
Just a Picture I wanted to share in the Forum
yeah we need those!
That's not exactly true. It can happen in the wild, but when it does its normally due to injury or outside factors (One known wild Orca's fin flopped after an oil spill) Orcas in captivity have their fins flop because they spend too much time at the waters surface, with their fins up in the air. Gravity makes them flop over time.
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As for this topic, I am all for aquatic animals in Planet Zoo (if it wasn't obvious) although I don't want them in the base game, because of the drama. It would make it easier for people to avoid them if they don't want them by just not purchasing the DLC. The game is on steam, as are other Frontier games. They go on sale frequently and will likely be available for $5 or less during big sales so I'm not really worried about the money. That being said, I don't really want show mechanics as it does go against the theme and would likely be a huge monster to develop the mechanics for. I'd rather that time and energy just put towards a well rounded swimming and tank system.
Despite my wishes for this game, I am 100% against non-rehabilitative cetacean captivity. I don't think they belong in captivity, at least not in the capacity they are currently held in. Just because time and time again its been proven they do horribly in captivity. None of this effects my wishes for the game, because the game already isn't 100% grounded in reality, and as people keep bringing up, already features other animals proven to do badly in captivity as well, as well as being able to just toss any animal out to the wild with the snap of your fingers. And it features vivarium "exhibits" that are either much too small OR much too large for the animals housed in them, and co-habitate exclusively solitary animals.
None of that is realistic. Its a game we can create idealized versions of reality in. My dream tanks for Orcas would be huge and have tons of variety, plants and rocks, enrichment, and would keep family groups together unless releasing to the wild. Nothing that is currently feasible in real life. The argument that they don't belong in the game because of ethical reasons is purely due to the current marketing focusing on that message in media right now. Blackfish was a very bias and somewhat inaccurate documentary and though its done good by shifting public opinion, it really didn't set out to purely "educate" it was more so trying to sell an idea to people for a good cause. Propaganda. I don't hate the film. I agree real cetaceans don't belong in captivity. But the emphasis everyone is putting on it is contradictory to a bunch of other stuff already present in the game.
If they just can't do it because of the logistics of all the mechanics required I can accept that, but the "its unrealistic/unethical" argument is just starting to get on my nerves a bit lol.
People shouldn't be upset if Orcas, Bottlenose Dolphins and other Cetaceans will be in the Game because in the Game it is possible to build much bigger and deeper Tanks for them and for sure there will be special Enrichment-Items for them
I don't understand why you're so prejudiced about shows. There are two kinds of shows. train them with whip which is bad. The good thing is that educate animals by rewarding them. How would you train your animal if you were an instructor? answer this question in your head. circuses really force animals, but this is different. I see a lot of videos on the internet. the trainer shows the killer whale what he has to do and gives the animal a reward for doing it. However, it was proved that animals and elephants trained in circuses were trained to be harmed with a whip or a hooked rod. it has video in many places. I draw your attention, killer whale trainers never use whip or hooked sticks(I'm talking about used for elephants.). Believe me, no instructor wants to torture his Orca or dolphin. I mean, who wants to torture their animals? I didn't see anything wrong in sea shows.
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Mainly, anything that makes it harder for Frontier to add Orcas/aquatic animals to the game is gonna be stuff I'm against because I want to keep the goal of having them as realistic as possible. As for the ethics of it, its not really a topic for this forum but suffice to say behind the scenes Orca shows aren't as innocent as basic positive reinforcement.
This. I'd like PlanetZoo to stay focus on just that... Zoos. If they were to develop something that was rooted in aquariums and/or marine parks, I woud be fully on-board and would most certainly purchase the game. I would rather a proper game with full-on tank/aquatic mechanics, scenery sets, shops, exhibits, etc. dedicated to this sort of thing rather than a handful of DLC animals and a few new items. I mean, it would be much easier to be able to just place a tank rather than having to dig water, etc.
I really do hope they add more land/sea animals over time (several species of otter, sea lions, various seals, walruses, polar bears, etc.) but... People have these expectations about DLC that seem to be rooted in the way things went with Zoo Tycoon 2. In effect, those expansion packs were a burst of new game mechanics, shops, fences, animals (15+), etc. All of the DLC for PlanCo and JWE are smaller in scope, and I see no reason why we shouldn't expect something similar from Planet Zoo.
I'd just rather them do something solely focused on the aquatic animals that are generally not found in zoos (dolphins, for example). It feels like to do either game justice they'd want to keep them split up and maximize the game toward its individual goals. Heck, if they develop some of the land/water combo animals folks have been asking for, I bet they could even pull them into Planet Aquarium if that ever becomes a thing!
It depends on how you think.
And I said before. As someone who wanted shows, I told him that sea animal shows should be shared as a mod because of discussions. But I want it in the main game because there's nothing wrong.
I know, The aim of the game is to protect animals. But the game shouldn't be about protection from start to finish. there must be something different. I said that before, the idea of protection was a sales strategy of the game. If you mean protecting animals, releasing them into the wild, this already exists in previous games. it would also be really boring if my only goal in this game is to produce animals and release them into the wild. people free. can do whatever you want. In this game everyone is building their own zoo. For example, I do not want to release any animals into the wild. I'll probably sell the animals. this is my decision. because real zoos actually sell all animals.
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Yeah, I actually agree with that. so making a separate game makes more sense. but there are people who want to see lions and dolphins at the same time. It's much better to have them all together in this game so people don't think they will want to constantly change the game to see a dolphin. but I think a separate game would make more sense.This. I'd like PlanetZoo to stay focus on just that... Zoos. If they were to develop something that was rooted in aquariums and/or marine parks, I woud be fully on-board and would most certainly purchase the game. I would rather a proper game with full-on tank/aquatic mechanics, scenery sets, shops, exhibits, etc. dedicated to this sort of thing rather than a handful of DLC animals and a few new items. I mean, it would be much easier to be able to just place a tank rather than having to dig water, etc.
I really do hope they add more land/sea animals over time (several species of otter, sea lions, various seals, walruses, polar bears, etc.) but... People have these expectations about DLC that seem to be rooted in the way things went with Zoo Tycoon 2. In effect, those expansion packs were a burst of new game mechanics, shops, fences, animals (15+), etc. All of the DLC for PlanCo and JWE are smaller in scope, and I see no reason why we shouldn't expect something similar from Planet Zoo.
I'd just rather them do something solely focused on the aquatic animals that are generally not found in zoos (dolphins, for example). It feels like to do either game justice they'd want to keep them split up and maximize the game toward its individual goals. Heck, if they develop some of the land/water combo animals folks have been asking for, I bet they could even pull them into Planet Aquarium if that ever becomes a thing!
Planet Aquarium like
but as I said, if they make a separate game, people will have to change games all the time. For example I do not want to enter another game to see the dolphin to see the lion, I want to have both in my park.
The issue with that I think is that it would be really difficult to make anything but half a game unless it was completely different in engine. People, pro and anti aquariums, would not be super happy with Frontier basically just reskinning PlanetZoo with aquatic animals and tanks, then releasing it as its own game. And if they did anything beyond that, it would have to be a game with a completely different structure with not a whole lot able to be reused. I don't think aquariums can hold up an entire fresh game without backlash because of that. I know I would be pretty miffed about paying full price for a second game, with no ability to mix animals from the first game despite them existing in the same engine, and potentially even having some reused animals/models/animations.This. I'd like PlanetZoo to stay focus on just that... Zoos. If they were to develop something that was rooted in aquariums and/or marine parks, I woud be fully on-board and would most certainly purchase the game. I would rather a proper game with full-on tank/aquatic mechanics, scenery sets, shops, exhibits, etc. dedicated to this sort of thing rather than a handful of DLC animals and a few new items. I mean, it would be much easier to be able to just place a tank rather than having to dig water, etc.
I really do hope they add more land/sea animals over time (several species of otter, sea lions, various seals, walruses, polar bears, etc.) but... People have these expectations about DLC that seem to be rooted in the way things went with Zoo Tycoon 2. In effect, those expansion packs were a burst of new game mechanics, shops, fences, animals (15+), etc. All of the DLC for PlanCo and JWE are smaller in scope, and I see no reason why we shouldn't expect something similar from Planet Zoo.
I'd just rather them do something solely focused on the aquatic animals that are generally not found in zoos (dolphins, for example). It feels like to do either game justice they'd want to keep them split up and maximize the game toward its individual goals. Heck, if they develop some of the land/water combo animals folks have been asking for, I bet they could even pull them into Planet Aquarium if that ever becomes a thing!
In my opinion, everything they have right now could make for nice aquatic animal mechanics with some tweaking and additions. Basically just the same tank system as Zoo Tycoon 2. Yes, I know people are tired of the comparison, but the terrain and water tools are similar and because of that, its a good example. They already have the ability to just add water to any dug out or sealed up area. I never got the chance to test if you could just make a circle of glass fencing and fill it to the brim with water, but I would assume you could unless explicitly disabled to avoid bugs. Aside from a way to get in and out of the tank, and an easier method of altering the water level, that's all you need as a foundation. (Ignoring the animals themselves.) Even with the exhibits all the basics are already there since those aren't even intractable. Having little aquarium exhibits with different types of fish would be extremely cool. And all very doable unless I'm missing something.
Yeah, I actually agree with that. so making a separate game makes more sense. but there are people who want to see lions and dolphins at the same time. It's much better to have them all together in this game so people don't think they will want to constantly change the game to see a dolphin. but I think a separate game would make more sense.
Planet Aquarium like
but as I said, if they make a separate game, people will have to change games all the time. For example I do not want to enter another game to see the dolphin to see the lion, I want to have both in my park.
I guess I just don't see having to switch games as a big issue for me anymore. But for me, dolphins and orcas or whatever don't really belong in a zoo (that is, you don't usually larger marine animals in zoos--they are more in aquariums and marine parks).
I hear you here. But I also think if they were to do this sort of thing they would implement a bit more than a simple "re-skinning." I was just putting that out there as an example of how it wouldn't be a total re-tread for them. I'd like to see them implement a tank/exhibit design system. How cool would it be if you could develop your own aquariums of varied sizes with unique reef or rock structures, enrichment items, gravel, plants and the like... And then just put it wherever you'd like? Setting the parameters, shifting to a different "mode" to design it, and then putting it wherever you'd like. And doing something like that with tanks would be nice too -- setting the size and having it instantly fill up with water.
I'd also envision there being more of a focus on indoor exhibits if they went the aquarium route too. Something where you build a building and put exhibits wherever you'd like, tucked into the walls, etc. And this would tie nicely too what I'm calling out above. But then again, this would also address what everyone is hoping to get out of the vivarums and existing exhibits anyway. So the two "wants" might not be so dissimilar the way we're thinking about it...
The way you framed it? I think it could be doable within game -- and could actually (much like Marine Mania--hah, breaking my own rules here!) affect game mechanics for existing animals as well. Still think it could be even cooler if they did a full-on expansion pack rather than a smaller DLC set but... I guess we don't know how in-depth they plan to go with that sort of thing! JWE got away with just dinos because there's only so much within that world that you can do. And PlanCo didn't have the animal element. So these will probably need to be a bit more involved anyway...
All the things you described are mechanics already in the game. We have humidity and temperature meters for the exhibits, these could be adjusted to be salinity, PH, etc for tanks. We have water conditioning, they could have those but needed to be dedicated to each tank. Designing your own reef is entirely possible in the base game if there were reef items. There's an entire part-by-part building mode that would make it totally doable to just piece together rocks and plants and coral props. Indoor exhibits aren't easy to accomplish but they are 100% possible. It'd be nice to have a more Sims-style building editor for indoor designing but I wouldn't pay another $40 for it. The gameplay aspect is also an issue, if Frontier wants to stay focused on the environmental message (which I support) then the goals of the game would be exactly the same as Planet Zoo. All of these things are why I'd consider "Planet Aquarium" more of a reskin than a brand new game. I'm not saying it would be easy or simple or straight forward or that Frontier wouldn't put effort into it if that's what they decided to do. I'm sure they would, but I'd rather that just be put towards a DLC for the current game.
I agree that it would be better for a much more fleshed out DLC though, the current mechanics aren't 100% ready to just throw in some fish and call it a day. I would love an extensive pack with new mechanics and campaign storylines, that would be incredibly fun. That's sort of the hope and what people are mostly asking for. I know other people have other priorities for what they'd rather see, but that's whats high up on my wishlist personally.
I wasn't talking about salinity, etc. That stuff is easy enough to tweak. I'm talking more about the piece-by-piece part. Maybe I didn't spend enough time tinkering with the exhibits, but I was never able to figure out how to edit them piece by piece (e.g., adding/removing plants, moving things around). That's what I'm getting at. I know about the piece-by-piece building but it seems more tailored to larger habitats and buildings. I'd love for them to implement a revised terrarium system anyway to allow those to be more modifiable (and bigger) and to make it easier to plop them inside of buildings. I was just pointing out how that would be an important piece for them to do something with aquariums, given how those tend to be largely indoors. But I can see how having that method in place would also add a new element to Planet Zoo, too!
I'm talking about ways to add these things in to make them easier to implement. Which, I think, would be important if you're doing something based on aquariums.
And to be sure, I'd definitely prefer they put time, effort and energy into the current game too and keep things focused on the current game. But if they decide to go the route of marine animals (talking purely aquatic ones here, not seals and the like) at some point? I'd prefer it to be a different game, or at the very least a very extensive DLC pack. I think there would be ways they could adjust/adapt the gameplay to make it different enough from Planet Zoo.
indeed, i'd rather they make DLC and continue to support a game rather than abandon the game as soon as it launches and move on to making a new game in order to keep the money coming in and paychecks being paid to their employees
as long as the price is reasonable and none of it is core mechanics that should have been in the game with the first place, i'm happy to support a good developer by buying the occasional DLC