General / Off-Topic Recycle or Die! (the elite environmental thread)

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Just something I realized in my lifetime. If you look at the history of Europe and the U.S. over the past 300 years, there were no significant (reported) weather events on both sides of the Atlantic for Great Britain, France, Germany or the Eastern or Western U.S. The fleets of British, French and American ships crossing the Atlantic rarely reported storms at sea and to a greater extent, the British and French could not have been involved in the American Revolution or the Civil War had there been massive category three, four and five hurricanes bouncing around the Atlantic at that time. The revolutionary war could not have been fought with massive weather systems flying up and down the Atlantic coast, battering places like Atlanta, Washington DC, North and South Carolina's, Georgia and the Mississippi River area, with massive river flooding. The Colonials and the British never reported storms or massive river flooding during this time hampering the battles that took place. Later, during the Civil War, Both the North and South were not delayed or hampered in their battles by radical weather conditions during the spring, summer and fall months of each year. The American Indians of the North and Western U.S. during the western migration of settlers do not report sever weather or massive forest fires hampering their resistance efforts and the settlers of the western U.S., with their telegraphs and news papers were certainly capable of making such reports. So, my conclusion here is that our current state of global weather is a new thing, caused solely by the rapid industrialization of the planet since the late 1890's to today. The burning of fossil fuels, use of combustion engines, improper disposal of waste globally has caused the weather to change in my lifetime and for future generations. As a child, I did not hear of or experience anything like what is happening with the weather today. For me, it's like night and day for what I saw weather wise between my childhood and now in my senior years. Even if we could get the entire planet to cooperate in stopping the burning of fossil fuels and the use of combustion engines today, I don't think we can avoid the rise of sea levels, global warming, the melting of the ice caps or a change in global weather catastrophies to come.

I leave you with this cartoon. Unfortunately, it speaks the truth to the destiny of our species given what we have done to the planet to date.

View attachment 147424

o7....
You mention, your senior years. Well you must be very old, if you can recall events, from the American war of independence.

That said: There are a number of records, of Great storms, floods and other such events, throughout history. Humans tend to 'forget' sad and tragic events, they often remember the heroes from such events, but that is about it. Many, many shops (sorry, ships) have been lost, crossing the Atlantic and they tended to turn away from such conditions, in those days. They did not have satellites to show them, how big, or where the said storm, was heading. Yes they spoke of them, sent news etc. etc. Check Lloyds of London records of the time. Lots and lots of ship wreaks there. Something else to consider. if a storm, or flood, kills everyone. At the time, or due to the after effects, then who is there, to speak of, what happened.

Not to take anything away, from what you propose. of humans influence/effect, on the current climate. Just to point out, storms and extreme weather conditions; are not a new thing.
 
I agree that reducing Air Pollution is a good thing. The problem I have is the fallacious acceptance of CO2 as a pollutant. It's a naturally occurring gas that is a necessary component of life. Study the Krebs Cycle if you don't want to take my word for it.

CO2 in recent years (about 100 IIRC) has risen from .03% to .04% in the atmosphere. The fear mongers will point out that that's a 25% increase in CO2 levels. But it only a .01% change in it's % of gas in the atmosphere. That's One 100th of 1% !!!

There's no way to measure how it has impacted Climate nor are there any guarantees that reducing back to .03% would have any impact on Climate.
I will not participate in the debate on the quantities of CO2 indispsensable to life.

All I see is the unbreathable and nauseating air when I walk on the sidewalk.
 
I will not participate in the debate on the quantities of CO2 indispsensable to life.

All I see is the unbreathable and nauseating air when I walk on the sidewalk.
Big cities are nothing but wretched hives of scum and villainy. You should leave and move out to the country where the air is clean and the normal people live. You'll need to learn to drive a car, but it'll be worth it, trust me:)
 
Setting aside direct emmisions coming from an automobile exhaust system,

Well, I refuse this suggestion.

The quality of life and the air I breathe is fundamental.

This is my main concern.

It is necessary to be crazy or stupid to continue to defend the technology of combustion engines with fossil fuels.

Thousands of cars that pass through a city every day is simply a hell on the earth and a collective suicide.

But people sleep ...
 
Big cities are nothing but wretched hives of scum and villainy. You should leave and move out to the country where the air is clean and the normal people live. You'll need to learn to drive a car, but it'll be worth it, trust me:)
And once again you speak to say nothing.

And your arrogance is limitless.

But who are you to pretend to know my current life ?

Who told you that I live in a big city ? Who told you that I do not know how to drive a car or even a truck ? Who told you that I do not live with normal people ?

It's not because I'm talking about the environment at a global level that I do not live in a relatively preserved environment.

You really believe that you are the only one who knows the life. You are incorrigible and I think irrecoverable.

:)
 
Everyone is free to live their individual responsible convictions and contribute to changing the climate as they see appropriate.

Stop driving
Do not heat or cool your home
Grow your own food
Throw away your cell phones and computers
Do nothing after the Sun goes down

Feel free to add to the list...

Just don't tell me how to live my life
...........stop making beer, or any alcohol, that needs ,the fermentation process; forever.
 
Big cities are nothing but wretched hives of scum and villainy. You should leave and move out to the country where the air is clean and the normal people live. You'll need to learn to drive a car, but it'll be worth it, trust me:)
For your information, here is my living environment.


147442
 
And once again you speak to say nothing.

And your arrogance is limitless.

But who are you to pretend to know my current life ?

Who told you that I live in a big city ? Who told you that I do not know how to drive a car or even a truck ? Who told you that I do not live with normal people ?

It's not because I'm talking about the environment at a global level that I do not live in a relatively preserved environment.

You really believe that you are the only one who knows the life. You are incorrigible and I think irrecoverable.

:)
Easy now, Patrick. I wasn't trying to trigger you, I just got the impression you lived in the city based on numerous posts you've offered.
 
Well, I did learn the history of the Revolution, but what I said with reference to being a senior was: "For me, it's like night and day for what I saw weather wise between my childhood and now in my senior years".
I think that we were tougher, during our younger days and again. We now live, in an instant WWW world. The data we have access to and is offered to us, is tremendous, when compared to 50 years ago.
 
That's the whole point, isn't it? Any dissenting or contrary theory will ALWAYS be dismissed as "quackery." Personally, I think trying to convince any of these people is absolutely a lost cause, and my main reason for even engaging the argument is that these people who are actively supporting the systematic dismantling of civilization deserve some pushback. Also, there's bound to be people who don't comment but read and can possibly be educated to not guzzle the koolaid like Morbad & Co.

No, any disseting or contrary theory with little to no evidence will be dismissed as "quackery". And kids complain they don't need to know science...
 
Easy now, Patrick. I wasn't trying to trigger you, I just got the impression you lived in the city based on numerous posts you've offered.
No problem. I was joking a little too ;)

However, it is not because I live in a place that is not the worst on the earth, that I do not have concerns about the planet. :)
 
I think that we were tougher, during our younger days and again. We now live, in an instant WWW world. The data we have access to and is offered to us, is tremendous, when compared to 50 years ago.
There is no doubt that access to information and knowledge for those who want to make the effort to search is without comparison to the 1970s.

This ease of access to everything that exists in the world, is it the cause of the many misfortunes of the planet ?

:unsure:
 
There is no doubt that access to information and knowledge for those who want to make the effort to search is without comparison to the 1970s.

This ease of access to everything that exists in the world, is it the cause of the many misfortunes of the planet ?

:unsure:

Good point

The major impact has been to make some think that they are educated, cause dey read it on da net - without ever having read a great work of literature.

Like all technological advancement, there's good and bad intermingled.

Without a proper education in history, philosophy, psychology, and; dare I say comparative religion; as well as a good understanding of the STEM fields and Literature - discerning the good from the bad is not very easy.

That's what makes Peterson's body of work so impressive. His work is so wide AND deep that it's a wonderful starting point for going deeper and looking at the sources he cites.

Anyone can pick at or disagree with some aspects or take a line or two out of context to criticize, but taken as a whole only Sam Harris has tried to credibly challenge him, and not very successfully.

Before the 70's the education system had not yet been so thoroughly infiltrated by post modernism as it is today. Had the education systems not been corrupted and converted by post modernism for political indoctrination it's likely that the negative effects of the web wouldn't be as pronounced as they are.

Today's generation seems to be creatures with little to no knowledge of history. They speak and act as if the world began in the 1960's.

The education system needs to go back to teaching the fundamentals of reading, writing, and arithmetic and history. Everyone in the West need a much better education in the History of Western Civilization and Great Literature. Instead - today the kids are filled with mush and moved on to the next grade and a high percentage graduate from secondary education unable to read and write and if you say anything about it - you're a racist, bigot, homophobe, etc,etc,etc.

The great tragedy is the loss of social capital

We are devolving rapidly - polarization is just one of the canaries in the coal mine.
 
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'Firms ignoring climate crisis will go bankrupt, says Mark Carney':


Companies and industries that are not moving towards zero-carbon emissions will be punished by investors and go bankrupt, the governor of the Bank of England has warned.

Mark Carney also told the Guardian it was possible that the global transition needed to tackle the climate crisis could result in an abrupt financial collapse. He said the longer action to reverse emissions was delayed, the more the risk of collapse would grow.

Carney has led efforts to address the dangers global heating poses to the financial sector, from increasing extreme weather disasters to a potential fall in asset values such as fossil fuel company valuations as government regulations bite. The Guardian revealed last week that just 20 fossil fuel companies have produced coal, oil and gas linked to more than a third of all emissions in the modern era.

The Bank of England has said up to $20tn (£16tn) of assets could be wiped out if the climate emergency is not addressed effectively. But Carney also said great fortunes could be made by those working to end greenhouse gas emissions with a big potential upside for the UK economy in particular.

In an interview with the Guardian, Carney said disclosure by companies of the risks posed by climate change to their business was key to a smooth transition to a zero-carbon world as it enabled investors to back winners.

“There will be industries, sectors and firms that do very well during this process because they will be part of the solution,” he said. “But there will also be ones that lag behind and they will be punished.”

Carney said in July: “Companies that don’t adapt will go bankrupt without question.”

Don't say i haven't been telling you all the same thing for a few years now ;) For many people that deny the problem of AGW it is likely not going to be until the moment their pension funds go broke (as likely they will still be invested in fossil fuels etc) that they will get that penny drop moment, all too late by then off course.
 
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That's what makes Peterson's body of work so impressive. His work is so wide AND deep that it's a wonderful starting point for going deeper and looking at the sources he cites.

Anyone can pick at or disagree with some aspects or take a line or two out of context to criticize, but taken as a whole only Sam Harris has tried to credibly challenge him, and not very successfully.

What work exactly? Mind you, he's not a climate expert (or physics expert for that matter).
 
What work exactly? Mind you, he's not a climate expert (or physics expert for that matter).

40 years of research
Hundreds of hours of readily available lectures that are generally more than 2 hours long
Two published books, of which "Maps of Meaning" is the most detailed product

Again - my recommendation is for the purpose of properly framing the context within which the Climate debate is taking place. It's not for the purpose of suggesting the Peterson is in any way an expert on the topic, other than to put it in a larger context.
 
Don't say i haven't been telling you all the same thing for a few years now ;) For many people that deny the problem of AGW it is likely not going to be until the moment their pension funds go broke (as likely they will still be invested in fossil fuels etc) that they will get that penny drop moment, all too late by then off course.

There's a similar issue in the developed world going on with health care costs and the obesity epidemic. As the incidence of metabolic syndrome rises, costs of dialysis, liver transplants, retinopathy blindness and coronary care are going up but nothing is as bad as strokes. Home care for stroke victims is punitively costly because there are so MANY of them, and they are likely to live as invalids for years.

We worked out an inexpensive way to reverse NAFLD here, prevent progression to cirrhosis and transplant, but that I'm not publishing.
 
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