"Legal Status: Hunter"?

[Stealthie]

Never seen this before...

Just finished engineering some big guns for a Krait, saw a "Weapons Fire TL5" USS and thought I'd drop in and test 'em out.

When I drop in there's a Deadly Annie taking fire from a bunch of smaller ships; A Krait, an Asp, a Vulture and something else.
I figure the Annie's the best target so I target it and scan it.
It's legal status shows up as "Unknown".
Okay, that happens sometimes.

I target the Krait, scan it and it comes back as "Clean".
I target/scan the AspX and that's "Clean" too.

By this time, the AspX and the Krait have lost their shields and they're not going to last much longer.
So, I target the Annie again - on the basis that the ships it was attacking ARE "Clean" - and open fire.

Now, the Annie's legal status changes from "Unknown" to "Hunter" and it starts shooting at me... along with all the other ships as well.

Awhatnow?!

I kind of get the impression that, perhaps, the smaller ships were supposed to be "Wanted" and the Annie was, presumably, a BHer fighting them and I was supposed to decide whether to help the Annie or the "outlaws".
Trouble was that, as it turned out, that the smaller ships were showing as "Clean", as was the Annie, and they all decided to stop fighting each other and attack me instead.

Oh, and I got a bounty for attacking the Annie.

"Working as Intended"?

 

[Speedcuffs]

Did you have a KWS?
I'm thinking if you used a KWS on the Annie, you may then have been legal.

Or used it on any of them.

 

[Lightspeed]

Never seen this before...

Just finished engineering some big guns for a Krait, saw a "Weapons Fire TL5" USS and thought I'd drop in and test 'em out.

When I drop in there's a Deadly Annie taking fire from a bunch of smaller ships; A Krait, an Asp, a Vulture and something else.
I figure the Annie's the best target so I target it and scan it.
It's legal status shows up as "Unknown".
Okay, that happens sometimes.

I target the Krait, scan it and it comes back as "Clean".
I target/scan the AspX and that's "Clean" too.

By this time, the AspX and the Krait have lost their shields and they're not going to last much longer.
So, I target the Annie again - on the basis that the ships it was attacking ARE "Clean" - and open fire.

Now, the Annie's legal status changes from "Unknown" to "Hunter" and it starts shooting at me... along with all the other ships as well.

Awhatnow?!

I kind of get the impression that, perhaps, the smaller ships were supposed to be "Wanted" and the Annie was, presumably, a BHer fighting them and I was supposed to decide whether to help the Annie or the "outlaws".
Trouble was that, as it turned out, that the smaller ships were showing as "Clean", as was the Annie, and they all decided to stop fighting each other and attack me instead.

Oh, and I got a bounty for attacking the Annie.

"Working as Intended"?

It's Elite: Thankless at times

 

[Stealthie]

Did you have a KWS?
I'm thinking if you used a KWS on the Annie, you may then have been legal.

Or used it on any of them.

Yeah, there's that, I suppose.

Thing is, when I arrived they were shooting at each other so surely either the Annie or the other ships should have been designated as "Wanted" purely as a result of who started that fight?

I mean, there's been plenty of times when I've been trundling back to base in a ship with a multi-billion credit bounty on it, I'll get tugged my some witless NPC BHer, they'll attack me, gain "Wanted" status and the cops will show up and help me explode him.
The only two ways that can go is that either the BHer KWS's me first, and I gain "Wanted" status or they don't and they gain "Wanted" status for attacking me.

In a nutshell, I don't know of any scenario where ships can engage in combat without one or the other gaining "Wanted" status.

And then there's the whole thing with them fighting each other and then, when I attacked the Annie, they all decided to start shooting at me instead.

 

[Drelthar]

You can be wanted in other systems, and a kill warrant scan can make it legal to "hunt" that bounty even in the current system in which you are not wanted.

 

[Stealthie]

You can be wanted in other systems, and a kill warrant scan can make it legal to "hunt" that bounty even in the current system in which you are not wanted.

Yes but if I ping somebody with a KWS, thus revealing their legal status, they'll show-up as Wanted - which, in turn, prevents me from becoming Wanted when I attack them.

I would assume, if everything's working correctly, that an NPC BHer who's attacking other NPCs would operate the same way.
The BHer pings his target(s) and they become Wanted.
The BHer doesn't ping his targets and he becomes Wanted.

Somebody's gotta be Wanted when NPCs attack each other outside of a CZ, right?

+EDIT+

And, at the risk of labouring the point, then there's the whole thing with them fighting with each other and then teaming up to shoot at me.

 

[Drelthar]

Kill warrant scans count on an individual basis.

If a ship is scanned with a kill warrant scanner, this makes it legal for the scanner to kill them, but it doesn't make them wanted to everyone in the area. Just to the one who scanned them.

In this case, the one who was scanned, will now see the one who scanned them, as "hunter"

 

[Ian Doncaster]

What if A and B both have a bounty in other systems, KWS each other, and attack? Both can then legally attack each other without gaining a local bounty, and anyone else attacking them will be firing on a locally clean ship.

Dropping into a fight between two opposed teams of bounty hunters in a neutral third system is the sort of scenario that should occur - I'm actually quite surprised, if this is the explanation, that it does.

 

[Drelthar]

What if A and B both have a bounty in other systems, KWS each other, and attack? Both can then legally attack each other without gaining a local bounty, and anyone else attacking them will be firing on a locally clean ship.

Dropping into a fight between two opposed teams of bounty hunters in a neutral third system is the sort of scenario that should occur - I'm actually quite surprised, if this is the explanation, that it does.

What you describe is technically possible I believe, never seen it though.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Now I've had a think...
Maybe a bugged scenario and you should have been given an option to choose sides in your comms?

 

[Julio Montega]

I have never ever seen the status "hunter" and "unknown" before,
that smells of broken script.
In what cases did you see "unknown"?

 

[Drelthar]

I have never ever seen the status "hunter" and "unknown" before,
that smells of broken script.
In what cases did you see "unknown"?

Unknown just happens before the data has loaded up. It's basically lag.

That's all.

 

[Drelthar]

Unknown just happens before the data has loaded up. It's basically lag.

That's all.

I have never ever seen the status "hunter" and "unknown" before,
that smells of broken script.
In what cases did you see "unknown"?

Also, you can get a friend to help you see the hunter status.

Get a bounty in a federation system, go to another federation system with a different controlling faction (still fed though)

Have your friend scan you with a kill warrant scanner.

Check his status.

 

[Julio Montega]

Also, you can get a friend to help you see the hunter status.

Get a bounty in a federation system, go to another federation system with a different controlling faction (still fed though)

Have your friend scan you with a kill warrant scanner.

Check his status.

Now that makes sense, as the KWS scanning ship detecting a bounty,
should be able to fight the bounty without repercussions from the law.
If that wasn't the case he would be treated as if shooting a clean ship.

So hunter basically says:

• i scanned a specific target
• the target has a bounty
• i am here to collect
• i operate within the law, don't fine me cops

Thnx for the info!

 

[znôrt]

Unknown just happens before the data has loaded up. It's basically lag.

That's all.

then it's either a bug or some very massive lag, i.e., a bug.

 

[Vasious]

Legal Status
Clean	No bounties in current jurisdiction
Wanted	Bounties in current Jurisdiction
Warranted	No bounty in current jurisdiction but due to a KWS revealing a bounty in an aligned Jurisdiction, target is legal to bounty hunt
Hunter	The Ship that has KWSed you to reveal bounty in an aligned Jurisdiction, so will be legally be allow to attack the Warranted ship

 

[Stealthie]

Kill warrant scans count on an individual basis.

If a ship is scanned with a kill warrant scanner, this makes it legal for the scanner to kill them, but it doesn't make them wanted to everyone in the area. Just to the one who scanned them.

In this case, the one who was scanned, will now see the one who scanned them, as "hunter"

If that's correct, how would an NPC cop know that you're entitled to attack an outlaw as a result of KWS-scanning them?
Am I to assume the cop would just assume nothing untoward was happening, even though two ships are attempting to destroy each other?

In this particular scenario, however, that still doesn't explain why the Annie was attacking a bunch of allegedly Clean ships when I arrived but then they all decided I was the target after I attempted to assist the attacked ships.

Are we to assume FDev have created this scenario as some kind of entrapment... which just leaves me rolling my eyes and thinking "Meh, whatever!"?

 

[Viscera]

no real clue, but....did you interrupt some npc pp

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Normally the status of "Unknown" is reserved for Ships operating within ~1000km of Assets (orbital or Planetary) owned by non-Controlling Factions, tiny non-landable Outposts AFAIK have a reduced 400km bubble (haven't checked on these details in a longer time, so that's straight from memory and could be obsolete).

This tight band already and visibly affects NPCs in SuperCruise, which will then indicate any sampled Vessel status as "Unknown" for as long as they don't break free from that local jurisdiction, so within a few Seconds those SuperCruise Targets will change Status to resolved (either Wanted or Clean).

Thing is : NPCs in SuperCruise travel ... Signal Sources do not

So dropping into a rare USS located within a local (non-controlling) jurisdiction will tend to cause such weird issues.
Only a KWS can then reveal (and legitimize !) any offensive Action even if the Situation looks crystal clear on 1st sight.
Any trigger on any target there will otherwise register as an offensive act against an unresolved Target - incurring Bounties if applicable and a lethal response.

So in that rare situation : either get attacked 1st (instantly auto-resolves Targets) or run a full KWS... If no KWS is fitted and not attacked - do not open fire.

 

[metatheurgist]

In this particular scenario, however, that still doesn't explain why the Annie was attacking a bunch of allegedly Clean ships when I arrived but then they all decided I was the target after I attempted to assist the attacked ships.

Mercs. When you became wanted for attacking a clean ship in this jurisdiction you became a valid target. Suddenly you were juicier than their previous dispute.