I onlu have two fully engineered ships. One for fighting and one for exploring. I would gladly get rid of my engineered kit if it meant engineers were better integrated into the game, despite the many hours I spent collecting stuff for them. Engineers should accept cash and mats should be available for purchase. It makes zero sense the way it is now.
Engineering Under Threat - Open Letter etc
- Thread starter Gavin786
- Start date
I gladly got rid of my engineered kit for an improved game (switching from PS4 to PC). It wasn't the end of the world like the OP makes it out to be.
Remove the abomination that is Engineers and make Elite: Dangerous skill based again.
It would depend a long on exactly what was changed, so naturally there is cause to be concerned.
However, OP is basically going off on one about something that we don't even know is happening or will ever happen.
A long time ago, back when engineers was coming in, i said it should be a good trade off whever you engineer. More weapon damage? A lot more power drain. Unfortunately the downsides to engineering are far outweighed by the updsides. That i feel was a mistake.
However, what is done is done, and to change that at this point would not only upset a lot of players who have invested a lot of time into their ships, but, depending on the changes, render many unflyable. I think if that happened, many people would just quit in disgust. At the very least, i think FD would have to offer the ability to reset modules and get all data/materials back to allow people to respec their ships.
On a personal note, as a PvEer, i don't really care too much about the power creep in general. However, (i think) it is because of this power creep that combat zone ships were made into bullet sponges, and that i don't like.
I think its pretty obvious as well that the people driving the suggestion for change to engineering are those with an interest in PvP. Now, while that is an understandable and even laudable goal, trying to bring balance to PvP, i think the problem is much more far reaching than just engineering and extends to ship stats and modules, and in order to bring a better balance to PvP it would require a complete rework of just about everything relating to ships.
Personally i'd rather they not spend time on this and get on with working on Fleet Carriers... oh....
However, OP is basically going off on one about something that we don't even know is happening or will ever happen.
A long time ago, back when engineers was coming in, i said it should be a good trade off whever you engineer. More weapon damage? A lot more power drain. Unfortunately the downsides to engineering are far outweighed by the updsides. That i feel was a mistake.
However, what is done is done, and to change that at this point would not only upset a lot of players who have invested a lot of time into their ships, but, depending on the changes, render many unflyable. I think if that happened, many people would just quit in disgust. At the very least, i think FD would have to offer the ability to reset modules and get all data/materials back to allow people to respec their ships.
On a personal note, as a PvEer, i don't really care too much about the power creep in general. However, (i think) it is because of this power creep that combat zone ships were made into bullet sponges, and that i don't like.
I think its pretty obvious as well that the people driving the suggestion for change to engineering are those with an interest in PvP. Now, while that is an understandable and even laudable goal, trying to bring balance to PvP, i think the problem is much more far reaching than just engineering and extends to ship stats and modules, and in order to bring a better balance to PvP it would require a complete rework of just about everything relating to ships.
Personally i'd rather they not spend time on this and get on with working on Fleet Carriers... oh....
case in point, that doesn't speak of much variation, does it?
yeah, i totally respect that gameplay. in a sense i'm doing pretty much the same, you roleplay (or just play along at your own pace) and i just (selectively) skip the meta straight away. none of us is really in position to be competitive vs properly grinded ships (not me for sure, i won't even try, you maybe in 10 years.
), and that is why i say this is a bad system. which is no wonder because the real goal of this system is keeping people occupied, not fostering interesting interactions.i have several ships, love them, some engineered some not. i do like ships! but i prefer small for two reasons: they are fast and fun, and there is much less 'logistics' with them and much more actual flying. a fdl is about the biggest i would consider engineering, and that's just because ... fdl!
blunt and straight to the point. well put, mr.
ps: we will still need a proper server based network stack though, but one thing at a time ...
Nope. Grinding is grinding. The rushing to go the most effective way to be done with a frustratingly RNGed
and boring part of the game, to start playing.
Don't enjoy SRV driving or mindless mining of rocks? Too bad, you never will receive raw materials to start the engineering.
I don't like both, so how can i earn those raws "pursuing my ingame goal"?
You see no problem, i see it, as mentioned above.
Engineering is only enabled by going out of your playstyle and do menial tasks,
in order to procure the necessary items to start engineering.
And when you don't like the results of your engineered item, you have to start all over again,
or purchase a new module, which isn't sold at engineer stations, and again pay the price.
We have limited module storage.
Facing engineered and tough NPCs, especially in CZs with scenarios, is something that unengied PvE ships struggle at.
Also engineering removed the fun and faster paced combat in PvP, due to engineering being the norm,
and hitpoint inflation being a thing.
Nope. Grinding is grinding. The rushing to go the most effective way to be done with a frustratingly RNGed
and boring part of the game, to start playing.
Don't enjoy SRV driving or mindless mining of rocks? Too bad, you never will receive raw materials to start the engineering.
I don't like both, so how can i earn those raws "pursuing my ingame goal"?
First, there is no need to rush. If you rush, you burn yourself down, and will stop playing soon.
Second, if you don't enjoy an aspect of the game, it's your problem. Games can't be made, for obvious reason, in a way that everything you do in them is appreciated by everyone.
En contre, that is why we had material traders, to lessen the grind and frustration,
now let us crosstrade between rare, manufactured and data and be done with it.
That's missing the entire point.
I very much subscribe to the marathon not a sprint - and yes I also believe that a 2000+ hour player can expect to have some advantage over newer players.
I happen to be a 2000+ hour player myself, but I don't expect to have "that big" an advantage over any other player that engineering provides. It's just way too powerful and has counterproductive consequences:
1. Discourages highly engineered players from engaging with highly engineered players - long fights that are absolutely centred around equipment are all too tedious...
2. Encourages highly engineered players to engage lesser engineered players.
Engineering in it's current format has direct consequences that are, therefore, backward from a gameplay perspective.
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1 thing I have never moaned about in this game is the speed to do things indeed my gripe is quite the opposite. My beef with engineers is they are just not plausible I would rather engineers be more engineers and less like wizards doing enchantments .
In general I like the notion of long term goals of things to work for and preferably some how work in that improved skill improves the speed that you find parts . Imo they are not out and out broken just that they need reeling in
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I don't have much more to say on the subject. To me the current amount of work needed to engineer a ship to my liking is spot on. I find that the balance between the effort needed and the results you get is perfect.
I personally love the engineer buffs to ship speeds and jump ranges. The rest I don't really care much if it stays or goes.
But the great balance debates had already started way before engineers ever existed, before people argued about the unbalanced effects of shield cells (we called it shield potions back then), hull reinforcements and shield boosters instead.
The kinds of balance people talk about in this thread have never existed, a pre-engineers Cobra III crammed with hull reinforcements already had 10 times more hitpoints than a multi-purpose outfitted Cobra III, so saying that it was engineers that the ruined balance is a quite a bit over the top. I mean, if even before the engineers a small ship like the Cobra could become 10 times as strong as a differently outfitted Cobra, then something must have gone wrong. Whatever the case, engineers may have increased the problem, but the problem already ran deep before the engineers.
Removing engineers would be to throw away gameplay and content and still end up with the exact same problem. So best to stick with it, maybe try to refine it, but going back would be useless. And honestly, this perceived issue affects how many people exactly? I'd wager most couldn't care less.
But the great balance debates had already started way before engineers ever existed, before people argued about the unbalanced effects of shield cells (we called it shield potions back then), hull reinforcements and shield boosters instead.
The kinds of balance people talk about in this thread have never existed, a pre-engineers Cobra III crammed with hull reinforcements already had 10 times more hitpoints than a multi-purpose outfitted Cobra III, so saying that it was engineers that the ruined balance is a quite a bit over the top. I mean, if even before the engineers a small ship like the Cobra could become 10 times as strong as a differently outfitted Cobra, then something must have gone wrong. Whatever the case, engineers may have increased the problem, but the problem already ran deep before the engineers.
Removing engineers would be to throw away gameplay and content and still end up with the exact same problem. So best to stick with it, maybe try to refine it, but going back would be useless. And honestly, this perceived issue affects how many people exactly? I'd wager most couldn't care less.
Totally. Engineering should have been about tactical sidegrades, or moderate buffs with significant downsides/compromises. Instead, we have unimaginative, unbalanced, and excessive power creep. But the horse has bolted on this and I really can't see FD backtracking on engineering.
Same. This is why I'm often satisfied with G3 or even G1 mods, depending on the build. Too good and it breaks my immersion (a Conda shouldn't handle as good as small ship). The only reason I would NEED G5 engineering (or any engineering for that matter) is to compensate for power creep, be it other players in godships or bullet sponges and Spec Ops in CZs.
Giving it thought, I don't think I'm for getting rid of engineers, but I'd be totally cool if there was just one level of improvement (G1) and the true purpose of engineers was the special effects rather than the god-like buffs. IMO Engineers hasn't just ruined the balance when it comes to PvP, but to many other aspects of the game as well, including this silly "from Bubble to Colonia in two hours" nonsense. Oh well, tis what it tis.
pretty much my thoughts exactly. I don't mind being a little more vincible if it means that taking out ships in CZs didn't chew through all my ammo.
The way I see engineering is when you buy a stock ship, you’re buying a 70% completed ship. The other 30% is up to you to complete and fine tune the ship to your liking.
An unengineered ship is not fully built and should not be able to hold its own against an engineered one. An unengineered ship should be adequate for most gameplay but it should not excel and it should certainly not be equal to an engineered ship in any way.
however there are still balancing points that should be addressed. There is a lot of gameplay that was nerfed or never worked to accommodate pvp and that should be rebalanced liike Solent running (doesn’t work at all against NPCs) amd thargoid combat (which should be possible without synthesis and SLFs)
An unengineered ship is not fully built and should not be able to hold its own against an engineered one. An unengineered ship should be adequate for most gameplay but it should not excel and it should certainly not be equal to an engineered ship in any way.
however there are still balancing points that should be addressed. There is a lot of gameplay that was nerfed or never worked to accommodate pvp and that should be rebalanced liike Solent running (doesn’t work at all against NPCs) amd thargoid combat (which should be possible without synthesis and SLFs)
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70 / 30 was probably close to the initial idea. For most aspects it's still reasonably true. The exception is ship defenses, where it's more 30 / 70.