What do you want from space legs?

[ethelred]

I'm not keen on legs as I think that other parts of the game need more love but if they do come then:-

1. 3rd person view (moving to FP in confined spaces) so I can control using a gamepad.

2. An EVA suit with 6 axis movement with a fuel and life support gauges. I'm looking forward to the new Fuel Rats type organisation that will rescue CMDRs who don't understand momentum and who blast themselves into space.

3. Persistent NPC mission givers a la GTA in storylets that give you a reason to actually use legs.

4. Actual POIs on planets that are explorable for reasons.

5. Stations that feel alive, rather than a few copy paste walking about NPCs

6. Bars for, well I dread to think of the horrible social interactions I would have to endure, but bars incorporating games like table football, pool, darts, racing games etc so you have something to do. Again a bit like GTA.

7. Shooting etc being upgrades to your CMDRs personal equipment but stations or non-anarchy stations at least prohibiting the use of weapons in a can't even use them way.

It's so much work to create a living community to interact with I can't help but feel whatever we do get will be a disappointment.

 

[Fosdyke]

 

[LanceLord]

space legs are better attuned for this alleged upcoming release for CitizenCon. A whole new SC planetary system. If CI pulls this off, it's a potential game changer not only for the SC fan base, but ED 2020 update.

 

[VR Golgot]

space legs are better attuned for this alleged upcoming release for CitizenCon. A whole new SC planetary system. If CI pulls this off, it's a potential game changer not only for the SC fan base, but ED 2020 update.

Do you mean as competition to spur them on?

(Not sure how SC possibly getting more than one star system working really plays into that though. I'd think something resembling a stable build, fun Legs loops &/or a release date would provide more impetus )

 

[jasonbarron]

Me with spacelegs:

 

[LanceLord]

Do you mean as competition to spur them on?

(Not sure how SC possibly getting more than one star system working really plays into that though. I'd think something resembling a stable build, fun Legs loops &/or a release date would provide more impetus )

Not as much in competition as in realism of existing ED game mechanics. As in the type of danger/risk/Cmdr mortality which a system like Pyro and its stars would represent for the ED Cmndr i.e by means of operational flight risks, pilot skill, pilot experience and game play consequences (to trading, exploration, PP elements) etc. ED systems are somewhat tame. Currently the most exotic and dangerous phenomena in the galaxy to date are

1. black holes/super black holes
2. WD stars
3. neutron stars
4. Thargoids and xeno life (which take a runner up back seat in 2nd place)
5. PP faction NPC and/or Cmdr pilots
6. Mission based PvP with NPCs based on Pilot rank

Ironically enough, phenomena #2 and #3 are the deadliest phenomena in the ED universe to date. Superior to #1 in terms of operational flight risk and pilot mortality rates. The logical rationale as to why this is the case in the ED Milky Way galaxy is only known to FDev. But it would be great if they thought to add more operational risk like that in a future update. That would enhance the Explorer career by giving those Cmndrs a greater challenge (and potential payouts) for being the first to survive exploration of such systems etc.

 

[VR Golgot]

Not as much in competition as in realism of existing ED game mechanics. As in the type of danger/risk/Cmdr mortality which a system like Pyro and its stars would represent for the ED Cmndr i.e by means of operational flight risks, pilot skill, pilot experience and game play consequences (to trading, exploration, PP elements) etc. ED systems are somewhat tame. Currently the most exotic and dangerous phenomena in the galaxy to date are

1. black holes/super black holes
2. WD stars
3. neutron stars
4. Thargoids and xeno life (which take a runner up back seat in 2nd place)
5. PP faction NPC and/or Cmdr pilots
6. Mission based PvP with NPCs based on Pilot rank

Ironically enough, phenomena #2 and #3 are the deadliest phenomena in the ED universe to date. Superior to #1 in terms of operational flight risk and pilot mortality rates. The logical rationale as to why this is the case in the ED Milky Way galaxy is only known to FDev. But it would be great if they thought to add more operational risk like that in a future update. That would enhance the Explorer career by giving those Cmndrs a greater challenge (and potential payouts) for being the first to survive exploration of such systems etc.

Ok, sooo, nothing to do with ED Legs then?

And all based on stuff that doesn't exist yet?

Classic SC shoehorn then

 

[LanceLord]

Hang on. Don't jump the gun on me partner

Phenomena like that would enhance the emergent game play for those special Cmndrs. Who are card carrying members of the "Spot the Loony" game every time they logon.

Dare devil Village Idiot stuff that makes Galnet news. Like spending several real life months deliberately jumping to the very edges of the Milky Way galaxy. Finally realizing you're out of fuel since 'Goids, those annoying carbon based double helix aliens, and Go Fill My Kettle Or Are Broke stars don't exist out there. Then being stuck in purgatory for several months, precariously on life support. Praying the Fuel Rats will rescue your dumb donkey's rear end, before your self destruct timer sequence wipes tens of millions in rare exploration data.

Now imagine flying into a volcanic Pyro planet to do rare liquid metal mining. A mining resource 10x more valuable the VOs & Double Painite combined. So rare, that it only exists at RNG POI whim, within a few specific systems deep in the galaxy. The type of mining that can only be done manually outside the safe operating confines of your ship. The ability to get out of your pilot seat, open your ship cargo hatch and then EVA directly into hell. The billions in credits reward if you survive such an encounter in your engineered space suit. Or the bragging rights and war tales you would have to share on this forum after your visit to the rebuy screen.

Very easy to extend the Spot the Looney game with space legs and demonic nature phenomena like that. Also because to date, there's nothing in the rules of the Federation Pilots Handbook which preclude this sort of Cmndr lunacy you see.

 

[VR Golgot]

Hang on. Don't jump the gun on me partner

Phenomena like that would enhance the emergent game play for those special Cmndrs. Who are card carrying members of the "Spot the Loony" game every time they logon.

Dare devil Village Idiot stuff that makes Galnet news. Like spending several real life months deliberately jumping to the very edges of the Milky Way galaxy. Finally realizing you're out of fuel since 'Goids, those annoying carbon based double helix aliens, and Go Fill My Kettle Or Are Broke stars don't exist out there. Then being stuck in purgatory for several months, precariously on life support. Praying the Fuel Rats will rescue your dumb donkey's rear end, before your self destruct timer sequence wipes tens of millions in rare exploration data.

Now imagine flying into a volcanic Pyro planet to do rare liquid metal mining. A mining resource 10x more valuable the VOs & Double Painite combined. So rare, that it only exists at RNG POI whim, within a few specific systems deep in the galaxy. The type of mining that can only be done manually outside the safe operating confines of your ship. The ability to get out of your pilot seat, open your ship cargo hatch and then EVA directly into hell. The billions in credits reward if you survive such an encounter in your engineered space suit. Or the bragging rights and war tales you would have to share on this forum after your visit to the rebuy screen.

Very easy to extend the Spot the Looney game with space legs and demonic nature phenomena like that. Also because to date, there's nothing in the rules of the Federation Pilots Handbook which preclude this sort of Cmndr lunacy you see.

Hah ok, yeah you're edging towards something kinda on topic now . If SC were to get their 'tier 0' hand mining mechanics working on an active volcanic planet, which added gameplay elements, then yeah, that'd be kinda relevant. But as always with SC, until they actually do it, this is all just theory-crafting about a future sizzle reel. Might as well talk about sandworms at this juncture

 

[Arioch]

I approve of the hand weaponry displayed there!

What do you CMDRs think SpaceLegs weapons would look like?

Although a pair of years younger than the original game, I’ll take a brace of these, please: Edit: ...and for the slug-thrower, at a pair of years older than the original game: Ta very much

forums.frontier.co.uk

Do you know how rare the white Starlyte guns are? I think there are 6 left in existence out of the 20 made.

Be careful shooting that thing, lady!

 

[LanceLord]

Hah ok, yeah you're edging towards something kinda on topic now . If SC were to get their 'tier 0' hand mining mechanics working on an active volcanic planet, which added gameplay elements, then yeah, that'd be kinda relevant. But as always with SC, until they actually do it, this is all just theory-crafting about a future sizzle reel. Might as well talk about sandworms at this juncture

Hey! Don't mess with CR's giant space d.i.l.d.o. M'kay?

It's extremely unlikely the Pyro system will ever be a functional, integrated, and working game play feature. Just like everything else in SC to date.

But seriously, this isn't about SC. Rather, I used this sort of system as an example. Because apart from the mesmerizing visuals, exotic space phenomena like those planets can be a big game changer for existing game play loops in ED. Particularly where the navigation career is concerned. If FDev could implement this rare phenomena (purely RNG and restricted to less than half a dozen systems) with space legs, add bonus incentives for the miner/exploration careers, then this would open a whole new level of emergent game play for the ED player base.

There are many threads on here with explorer Cmndrs complaining the pay out reward for their time invested in deep space exploration doesn't merit the risk. e.g. profit from scanning an entire system is the same regardless of whether the data was sold 20+ LY in the bubble or 22,000 LY at Colonia. Common sense would dictate the valve of data (for complete mapped/scanned systems with terraformed earth like planets) should exceed 6 figures in credits. Provided you survive the trek to the central Bubble (i.e. near or in Founder home world systems) from Colonia. Compared to the half million or so (if you sell at max probe efficiency) to outpost systems at the edge of the Bubble etc. Currently, no such risk vs. reward exists. Jumping the min 20+ LY nets you the same profit etc.

 

[VR Golgot]

But seriously, this isn't about SC. Rather, I used this sort of system as an example. Because apart from the mesmerizing visuals, exotic space phenomena like those planets can be a big game changer for existing game play loops in ED. Particularly where the navigation career is concerned. If FDev could implement this rare phenomena (purely RNG and restricted to less than half a dozen systems) with space legs, it would open a whole new level of emergent game play for the ED player base.

Ok cool man, maybe next time just start with the pitch

I'm still unclear what exact mechanics you'd like to see, from a legs perspective. Survival aspects regarding away missions on volcanic planets? Suit loadout options? EVA perils in volatile systems? That kind of thing?

 

[BL1P]

Get in and out of ship / fighter / fleetcarrier / SRV / Mech and walk around in or on the ship / dock / planet / space.
Be able to see players and npcs doing the above.

 

[LanceLord]

Ok cool man, maybe next time just start with the pitch

I'm still unclear what exact mechanics you'd like to see, from a legs perspective. Survival aspects regarding away missions on volcanic planets? Suit loadout options? EVA perils in volatile systems? That kind of thing?

Yes.

Using ship repair as an example: it's quite a challenge to repair/patch critical units on your ship. Especially if your Holo Me happens to be a paraplegic confined to their cockpit seat. The ability to repair critical modules like your power supply. Which drives your AFMU, life support, and other critical ship emergency repair systems.

Q. What happens to your ship when critical repair systems like the AFMU is too damaged to work?
A. You get a rebuy screen.

So manual repair by EVA would be another emergent game play feature to having to destroy your ship. Using EVA & space legs, you would get a small chance to manually perform minimal repairs on your AFMU. If successful, the unit would work just enough to hopefully get you to the nearest space station/Capital ship etc.

Another example is mining/prospecting. Creating a new, rare and high value mining resource like I described earlier. Restrict that resource to existing as plasma phase particles in a hostile, radioactive nebula consisting of several demon class planets the likes of Pyro. Limit Cmndr ability to collect/mine the mineral resource safely with the ship i.e. player must ultimately exit ship and perform EVA for a limited time. Player could manually collect plasma using a tool in the dangerous, radioactive nebula. So for example, the player would collect some of the plasma material for mining purposes. Which could then be condensed/refined into highly valuable crystals. A process which occurs post your EVA mining mission once you transfer them from your personal inventory to your ship refinery unit.

I went into this in extreme detail in the Suggestions forum, using the successful implementation of Space Legs & EVA activity by a game like Space Engineers here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ng-these-features-for-the-2020-update.525197/

There is so much emergent game play that could be accomplished with EVA & space legs. By simply offering an upgraded version of the Holo Me space suit. I listed all these EVA activities in #5.

 

[Jaim Vlazaltadar]

Suiting up and moving around/inside ships that have lost atmosphere, so eg boarding, rescue, salvage and survival gameplay.

Being able to issue a distress call and get other players to come to you for rescue.

Being able to lie in wait so you can kill players and take their stuff, or just silently make off with their ship leaving them stranded if they answer your distress call.

Being able to steal ships from docking pads if the pilot has left them unattended and unhangared.

Being able to plant bombs and trackers on ships for new mission gameplay.

Creating central hubs where players meet for this gameplay through gold rushes like eg: very lucrative mining opportunities in some particular region that gets littered with wrecks, very lucrative trade missions on a walkable station that only appear in open, and so on.

 

[Renown]

Something will need to be added to the game if you want to walk around ships in space, if you don't understand the gravity of the situation.

 

[JetsonRING]

It's not going to happen. Just because DB said space-legs was something FDev would "like to do" and a bunch of lemmings started screaming "Space Legs!" and bought the game based on that does not mean it will ever happen. Would love to be proven wrong on this but IMO nobody should be holding their breath waiting for this mythological feature.

That being said, if space-legs ever DID happen I would like to walk out of the airlock on an Anaconda moving through space, walk forward onto the upper deck, sit down, hang my feet over the side and enjoy the view.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I want a bar, so digital me can be just as hammered and belligerent as IRL me.

 

[BDelacroix]

Just as there are those who don't care for fleet carriers, I'm one that doesn't care for space legs. So I have no answer to the question.

 

[VR Golgot]

It's not going to happen. Just because DB said space-legs was something FDev would "like to do" and a bunch of lemmings started screaming "Space Legs!" and bought the game based on that does not mean it will ever happen.

You're right that it might not happen. But you're wrong on some key fundamentals. And they're fundamentals that make it more likely that FDev will attempt a Legs expansion:

The language was way stronger than 'like to do' (and was also attached to expansion pre-sales publicity & sales pages). For example:

Newsletter 32: 'To Launch, and Beyond with the Lifetime Expansion Pass'

We also plan to allow you to get up out of your seat and walk around your ship. You can see the level of attention and thought that has already been given to the ship interiors from these ship cockpit views in this video:

Of course walking round your ship will be nice, but it is the just springboard for a very significant expansion of gameplay – you will be able to experience the inside of starports and interact with other players and AI characters, and even board other people’s ships in space and take them by force, as shown in this concept piece.

Of course this will be further expanded to include walking around on the surfaces of planets too.

Alpha and Premium Beta customers, and those who have already bought the £35 Lifetime Expansion Pass alongside either Beta or the full game, will have access to all these features and updates for as long as we create them at no further cost.

Elite: Dangerous Development Plan (hosted on Kickstarter page - Dec 2014)

You will be able to walk around the spaceport, you will be able to see gold being loaded into someone else's ship, you will be able to sneak in and hide in amongst the cargo. All of those things are phenomenal game play opportunities where that ship might actually be the ship of another player, so just think where that all ends.

---

Throw in things like periodic suggestions by FDev that it's still their intent:

• 'The team and I all see Space Legs as the feature we will love to add and are at the top of our specification, but it's something that will not happen in the Beyond season. We will talk more about it later.' (Translated Sandro - Jan 2018)
• 'The future for Elite Dangerous is very exciting, including a whole raft of incredible features, yes including 'space legs' but so many more things too.' (David Braben - April 2017)
• 'All of the things, and there are lots of other things as well, that we want to do are a way away, because to do them well... Doing an animated character is only part of the problem, you've got to have things to do with it, it's got to be rich, and a great experience. So don't hold your breath, but when it comes it'll be great.' (David Braben - Dec 2016)

And aspects like the 'leak' holding true on its peculiar predictions. And it doesn't look as completely improbable as you're painting it