This is what Maintenance Mode must be like :(

Unless 2020 NuEra blows our collective socks off, its going to seal EDs fate for many.

I'd rather expect them to market a paid DLC revolving around a single core feature,
putting that in as basal as possible and promising evolvement.
The "game" is there, people pay for cosmetics and they earn,
by cutting costs (development time) to a minimum (bugfixes).
Elite sadly had a great vision, but revealed to be a MVP (Minimum Viable Product).

The patch policy and the lack of refinement of basic gameplay seals the deal.
 
Last edited:
A clean code base designed with targeted forward development in mind.
You are assuming Fdev havent already done that.

It's obvious the current code base has huge issues. Every update breaks multiple things, old bugs get re-introduced, Frontier appears to have difficulty implementing even the simplest of things without breaking non related features around them. Elite feels like the current code base is a series of patched together Frankenstein code linked into each other, and it seems to be straining under it's own weight for the past few years.
Seems to have as many issues as other games with a similar scope.

Not necessarily. A newly developed core code base designed to be expanded upon in specific directions, with thorough documentation and much pre-planning, could be much less resistant to "spaghetti-fication". My hunch is the current Elite code was developed quickly and without much forward thinking towards future features, and FD has had to patch new features into it forcefully, thus creating all manner of headaches for themselves.
Except they have said from the word go that the game has bee designed to add things such as space legs and planetary landings from the word go. So they either lied or you are wrong.

Sometimes, when a game gets so cumbersome that it falls apart under it's own heft, it's far easier to start over than to clean it up.
Is it cumbersome though. The current situation is most likely to do with having such a small team working on things while the majority are working on the big update. Sure there have been bugs in other updates but nothing to the scale of the last one. If the next 6 months are being used to squash bugs, then code will be rewritten and possibly getting rid of some of the speghettified code.

Now that said, I think "sequel" is probably the wrong word to use here. Think of it more like a re-factoring of the game's code.
Code is always being rewritten when updates, patches expansions are created.

My own personal hunch: I'd wager Elite 4.0, the big new direction for 2020, will be a total rebuilt core engine for Elite. It will be built with vehicle support at it's core, vehicles which can "dock" with our ships and transfer control between the two. Note that a "vehicle" can be an SRV, a shuttlecraft, an SLF, and yes even a player avatar itself. Elite 4.0 would be designed around first person mode. This would natively support multiplayer in ships, multicrew with mobile player avatars, SRV support for multiplayer, base exploration for the new player bases, space EVA, etc. More importantly the new clean code would be much less prone to new features breaking the game due to it being designed with hooks for pre-planned future new features.
Elite is ready designed around first person. We can already dock with our ships and SRVs. Writing a whole new core to incorporate everything that has been added would entail having to write it all again from scratch. Do you think they can do that in two years and add base building and/or space legs or atmospherics and associated gameplay in that time. That's crazy talk. That is probably 6-7 years of work right there for a 100 person team (and its not even a 100).

Also what would be the point in sorting out all/most of the bugs in the next few updates, just to scrap it all after because they have written a new core. It would be a complete and utter waste of time.

A lot of the current Elite code would of course be re-used, they wouldn't be re-writing the entire game from scratch. My gut feeling is the core of the game is the broken mess causing most of the issues, and FD may have decided that it's worth taking the time to re-write it rather than continue fighting it.
That wouldn't be possible as it would have all been written with the current code in mind. It would have to be drastically changed/altered.

I'd also bet the game goes F2P with Elite 4.0 in 2020. No more paying for features or updates, only paying for cosmetics and such. That's likely why getting ARX into the game was so important before hand, to prove it out and make sure it all works.
Can't see that happening either. Cosmetics will not fund any expansions. LOTRO has cosmetics but you still need to pay for major expansions or have to wait 6-7 months so you can buy it with points.

What I can see is horizons being bundled into the main game and horizons now becoming the base game. But you will still need to buy it. Makes no sense to remove a revenue stream that is still making money.

I'll say this: if the 2020 update isn't a core rewrite of the games' code then you can bet the mortgage that the big new direction update will break more things than ever before with the game.
I expect there to be a long beta for the update that will hopefully fix most of the game breaking bugs which they have done before. I really do not know why they stopped with the betas as they are obviously needed. Most online games do them for any significant code changes in the game, Fdev should really do the same.
 
Last edited:
Elite is ready designed around first person.

No it's not. Our ships are our player avatars. When we switch to an SLF our viewpoint is moved to it but our ship is still the central focus of the instance. It's why the SLF is leashed to a distance limit from the ship. Now, when we deploy to the SRV the instance focus moves from our ship to the SRV, the ship becomes an AI entity and the SRV becomes our "avatar". It's why we can dismiss the ship while in the SRV but NOT while in the SLF, the two vehicles are handled completely differently. It's also why multicrew can't work with the SRV either.

In short, Elite's vehicular code is fragmented and disjointed, and I suspect it would make any first person mode for the game nigh impossible to implement. My hunch is FD discovered this and decided to rewrite the core now in order to not only put space legs in but make all other vehicles handled consistently too.

Writing a whole new core to incorporate everything that has been added would entail having to write it all again from scratch.

Yep, hence the two year development time and lack of major updates to the current game. Lots of existing code could be ported straight into the new core though, not everything needs to be rewritten, but yes lots of changes would be made. They are probably only adding features to live now which can easily be implemented into the new 2020 code base at the same time.

Do you think they can do that in two years and add base building and/or space legs or atmospherics and associated gameplay in that time. That's crazy talk.

Yes, I do think they can. Hello Games is just a bit over a dozen people and they've implemented more into No Man's Sky in the past two years than Frontier's team of 100+ have into Elite. Or rather it appears that way. I'm betting the FD team is doing tons of work behind the scenes, we just aren't seeing any of it right now.

Cosmetics will not fund any expansions..... Makes no sense to remove a revenue stream that is still making money.

Horizons was the last update sold to the public, yet according to FD's financials Elite is earning FD lots of revenue purely from cosmetics every year. The question of "can the game survive purely from cosmetics" has already been answered.

Back to the OP, the current game might feel like its in maintenance mode because it very well might BE in maintenance mode, most of the major work might be going into the new rewritten core branch, the 2020 "new direction".

Again, this is all IMHO, I have zero inside information. It's just my gut feeling from the evidence we DO have.
 
Last edited:
I'm betting the FD team is doing tons of work behind the scenes, we just aren't seeing any of it right now.

I am not going to add anything constructive here. You just speak out loud what I was thinking long time. But somehow I start to believe the game is in fact finished and no further really noteworthy innovations are in the box for this game. Maybe there will be some new graphical novelties, some slightly modified gameplay-loops, some more of the good old same. But I am ready to be shown that I am wrong. But well, there is not much reason that makes believe so right now.
 
No it's not. Our ships are our player avatars. When we switch to an SLF our viewpoint is moved to it but our ship is still the central focus of the instance. It's why the SLF is leashed to a distance limit from the ship. Now, when we deploy to the SRV the instance focus moves from our ship to the SRV, the ship becomes an AI entity and the SRV becomes our "avatar". It's why we can dismiss the ship while in the SRV but NOT while in the SLF, the two vehicles are handled completely differently. It's also why multicrew can't work with the SRV either.
Yup. So what.

In short, Elite's vehicular code is fragmented and disjointed, and I suspect it would make any first person mode for the game nigh impossible to implement. My hunch is FD discovered this and decided to rewrite the core now in order to not only put space legs in but make all other vehicles handled consistently too.
Why. It would be just another vehicle. That's makes no sense.

Yep, hence the two year development time and lack of major updates to the current game. Lots of existing code could be ported straight into the new core though, not everything needs to be rewritten, but yes lots of changes would be made. They are probably only adding features to live now which can easily be implemented into the new 2020 code base at the same time.
How would that work. You can't just rip bits of code and slot them in to something else. Doesn't work like that.

Yes, I do think they can. Hello Games is just a bit over a dozen people and they've implemented more into No Man's Sky in the past two years than Frontier's team of 100+ have into Elite. Or rather it appears that way. I'm betting the FD team is doing tons of work behind the scenes, we just aren't seeing any of it right now.
No they really haven't. NMS is utterly simplistic compared to ED. The game even with the improvements is utter pants. Not a good example.

Horizons was the last update sold to the public, yet according to FD's financials Elite is earning FD lots of revenue purely from cosmetics every year. The question of "can the game survive purely from cosmetics" has already been answered.
If you looked at the report and accounts you would know that they are still selling copies of the game as well as horizons. They are not relying on cosmetics. They do not make enough money.


Back to the OP, the current game might feel like its in maintenance mode because it very well might BE in maintenance mode, most of the major work might be going into the new rewritten core branch, the 2020 "new direction".
Which wouldn't make sense if they want to produce space legs at the same graphical style that the rest of the game is based. It just wouldn't be possible. Remember they want people to buy the expansion. Nobody will buy it if all it does is give us the same stuff but slightly more stable. There is no logic to what you are saying.

Again, this is all IMHO, I have zero inside information. It's just my gut feeling from the evidence we DO have.
What evidence. You have shown none so far, if anything, the evidence is completely against what your gut feeling is saying.

As I said. What's the point in spending half year to iron out the bugs to just remove all of that work afterwards. A monumental waste of time and money.
 
Which wouldn't make sense if they want to produce space legs at the same graphical style that the rest of the game is based. It just wouldn't be possible. Remember they want people to buy the expansion. Nobody will buy it if all it does is give us the same stuff but slightly more stable. There is no logic to what you are saying.


What evidence. You have shown none so far, if anything, the evidence is completely against what your gut feeling is saying.

As I said. What's the point in spending half year to iron out the bugs to just remove all of that work afterwards. A monumental waste of time and money.

I don't read any of that into what Mengy is saying. He's giving his opinion based on what he sees, and feels, as we all do. But on the SRV he correctly points out differences between the SLF and SRV:
"It's why we can dismiss the ship while in the SRV but NOT while in the SLF, the two vehicles are handled completely differently. It's also why multicrew can't work with the SRV either.

In short, Elite's vehicular code is fragmented and disjointed, and I suspect it would make any first person mode for the game nigh impossible to implement. My hunch is FD discovered this and decided to rewrite the core now in order to not only put space legs in but make all other vehicles handled consistently too. '


Whether or not it's fragmented doesn't really matter to the point he is making. The SRV was never claimed to put us into this awful excuse of teleprescence. We are in the SRV and the ship stays put, unmanned, or is dismissed to safe orbit. Teleprescence, unlike for everything else it seems, has not applied to the SRV except, incongruously, when we enter the turret mode.

But for the next Big Thing, if we can get out of the SRV, or even the ship, on a planet or in a station, there has to be a compatibility with the existing code. Mengy is suggesting that may not work at present, and a way has to be found to marry the two together.

Then there's the issue of our relationship with NPCs. At the moment we don't see any. If we walk around our ships, we will have to be able to see our crew members. So the limitations of what they appear unable to do at present will have to be overcome next time around.

And you say "What's the point in spending half year to iron out the bugs to just remove all of that work afterwards. A monumental waste of time and money." Which is a clue to what is going on. It won't be entirely a new Cobra engine that takes over next time, but all the new features will be bolted onto the existing programming that we have now.

I should imagine Legs/Atmos/Bases are being developed just fine in their isolation on Dev computers, but it's how the final result interacts with the existing base game when the two are married together is what is causing FD so much concern. They have to understand how the ARX fiasco caused so much disruption and dare not introduce the carriers (which must be close to completion if the trailer was any sign of this) into the existing 'back end.'

They've estimated 6 to 8 months work to get the existing game ready for marrying to the New Era . Then, they say, they will introduce the FCs. Fleet Carriers might become the test of whether they can match the existing features to the new game without major disruption.

But being cynical, I can see further delays to hold carriers as a carrot (Fleet Carrots? 😊 ) in case there are further delays to New Era, or some stuff has to be left out entirely from New Era.

Meanwhile, we will remain in 'maintenance mode' with IIs to keep the masses 'happy' until the end of next year.
 
Interesting, but snipped for clarity...

They've estimated 6 to 8 months work to get the existing game ready for marrying to the New Era . Then, they say, they will introduce the FCs.
Perhaps they consider that in 6-8 months time the code for 'New Era' will be sufficiently complete to release FC's on the new code base? Conjecture, I admit - but it would make more sense than having a 'complete' (which FC's would have had to be at the time of the delay being announced) add-on shelved at the 11th hour as it must have been in the 'integration' phase at the time of the announcement, surely?

ETA: I would also have thought that 'updates' already 'planned' likely to already exist in the code base for 'New Era' otherwise it would be patching 'bits' up until its release!
 
This game is turning out to be the literal opposite of Star Citizen...where that game doesn't announce but introduces features no one really wants, here they announce but don't release features people REALLY want...
 
I don't read any of that into what Mengy is saying. He's giving his opinion based on what he sees, and feels, as we all do. But on the SRV he correctly points out differences between the SLF and SRV:
"It's why we can dismiss the ship while in the SRV but NOT while in the SLF, the two vehicles are handled completely differently. It's also why multicrew can't work with the SRV either.

In short, Elite's vehicular code is fragmented and disjointed, and I suspect it would make any first person mode for the game nigh impossible to implement. My hunch is FD discovered this and decided to rewrite the core now in order to not only put space legs in but make all other vehicles handled consistently too. '


Whether or not it's fragmented doesn't really matter to the point he is making. The SRV was never claimed to put us into this awful excuse of teleprescence. We are in the SRV and the ship stays put, unmanned, or is dismissed to safe orbit. Teleprescence, unlike for everything else it seems, has not applied to the SRV except, incongruously, when we enter the turret mode.

But for the next Big Thing, if we can get out of the SRV, or even the ship, on a planet or in a station, there has to be a compatibility with the existing code. Mengy is suggesting that may not work at present, and a way has to be found to marry the two together.

Then there's the issue of our relationship with NPCs. At the moment we don't see any. If we walk around our ships, we will have to be able to see our crew members. So the limitations of what they appear unable to do at present will have to be overcome next time around.

And you say "What's the point in spending half year to iron out the bugs to just remove all of that work afterwards. A monumental waste of time and money." Which is a clue to what is going on. It won't be entirely a new Cobra engine that takes over next time, but all the new features will be bolted onto the existing programming that we have now.

I should imagine Legs/Atmos/Bases are being developed just fine in their isolation on Dev computers, but it's how the final result interacts with the existing base game when the two are married together is what is causing FD so much concern. They have to understand how the ARX fiasco caused so much disruption and dare not introduce the carriers (which must be close to completion if the trailer was any sign of this) into the existing 'back end.'

They've estimated 6 to 8 months work to get the existing game ready for marrying to the New Era . Then, they say, they will introduce the FCs. Fleet Carriers might become the test of whether they can match the existing features to the new game without major disruption.

But being cynical, I can see further delays to hold carriers as a carrot (Fleet Carrots? 😊 ) in case there are further delays to New Era, or some stuff has to be left out entirely from New Era.

Meanwhile, we will remain in 'maintenance mode' with IIs to keep the masses 'happy' until the end of next year.
Sorry, but I see no evidence of 'limitations". All I see is stuff that hasn't been developed yet and there is nothing to suggest the current code can't do it.

Of course we can't see any code for space legs, it's not in the game yet.

Sorry, but there is no evidence to suggest the current game can't do space legs. Sure, I fully expect code to be rewritten, but that happens with all expansions/updates/patches. That is standard practice.

The game can't do it right now, because it hasn't been developed yet. But there is nothing to suggest that it can't. The SRV and the SLF are two very seperate things that supply very different types of gameplay. I fully expect the SLF to stay as telepresence. SRVs are not and that won't change.
 
Perhaps they consider that in 6-8 months time the code for 'New Era' will be sufficiently complete to release FC's on the new code base? Conjecture, I admit - but it would make more sense than having a 'complete' (which FC's would have had to be at the time of the delay being announced) add-on shelved at the 11th hour as it must have been in the 'integration' phase at the time of the announcement, surely?

ETA: I would also have thought that 'updates' already 'planned' likely to already exist in the code base for 'New Era' otherwise it would be patching 'bits' up until its release!
That line of conjecture makes sense to me.
 
Sorry, but I see no evidence of 'limitations". All I see is stuff that hasn't been developed yet and there is nothing to suggest the current code can't do it.

Well, hopefully by sometime late next summer we will have some idea of what is actually happening with Elite Dangerous. Until then we are all just theorycrafting and running in the blind.
 
Well, hopefully by sometime late next summer we will have some idea of what is actually happening with Elite Dangerous. Until then we are all just theorycrafting and running in the blind.
It would be interesting to go back four years and look at previous theory-crafting and comparing it to the reality of subsequent years. Interesting and depressing.
 
Well, hopefully by sometime late next summer we will have some idea of what is actually happening with Elite Dangerous. Until then we are all just theorycrafting and running in the blind.
I will just go by what they said. An expansion to the current game.

The leak may also be correct too.
 
Am i being too cynical/pessimistic if i think back to the reduction of ingame stories, and now this carrier cancellation, with the announcement of nothing happening till mid-next year or more, and think 'Elite Dangerous just isn't making any money, and they've abandoned it for a good while till the next paid update'.? it's disappointing because Elite should really be considered the best spaceship game out there, and yet it seems to be struggling. Why can Eurotruck simulator do so well, but not Elite? So many of the gamers i know own both.
 
Am i being too cynical/pessimistic if i think back to the reduction of ingame stories, and now this carrier cancellation, with the announcement of nothing happening till mid-next year or more, and think 'Elite Dangerous just isn't making any money, and they've abandoned it for a good while till the next paid update'.? it's disappointing because Elite should really be considered the best spaceship game out there, and yet it seems to be struggling. Why can Eurotruck simulator do so well, but not Elite? So many of the gamers i know own both.
Isn't the latest II an answer to Eurotruck simulator? :D
 
Back
Top Bottom