Sick of not knowing!!

[[VR] Mad Mike]

IMO, if you release a multiplayer game with PvP you are also required to balance it properly.
A concept most developers seem to understand.

WoW, League, Starcraft, Warframe, Ark, ATLAS, Conan, 7D2D...
I'm always surprised that 20-30% of each update/patch for some of these games are just about game balance.

Indeed games with a PvE focus often have a certain unbalance which is not really acceptable in a game which revolves around PvP.

This is somthing a lot of players were really worried about with ED. I am almost fully on the PvE side of the fence but I know the concern was genuine from all sides.

Personally I would be horrified for instance if FD announced that 30% of the dev time in the 2020 update had been spent around purely balancing PvP..... however am certain others here would be delighted with that.

PS Warframe PvP??? wow i have had that game installed since close to launch and honestly i never even knew it had the option of PvP!!!! i thought it was pure coop PvE. shows what i know!

 

[CMDR Carbo]

PS Warframe PvP??? wow i have had that game installed since close to launch and honestly i never even knew it had the option of PvP!!!! i thought it was pure coop PvE. shows what i know!

I likely mixed that game up with another one.

 

[B1rdy]

You bring up an excellent point. If I was FD and familiar with what is being said in the forums and reddit etc., I would be extremely cautious about applying a change like the OP is requesting because for all we know, next week the PvP community will decide the premium ammo is the new meta and everyone uses it. Then of course the requests to change everything will start again.

Why would having a notification about a special circumstance be something to be "extremely cautious" about? Or are you just continueing to misinterpret the OP to suit your agenda?

Shrugs I know, I'm being pedantic, but those who want the universe to be so terribly dangerous really should keep the consequences in mind. In addition, it is difficult to imagine there would be so many (mass) murderers running around in space, game or no game.

Are you posting in the wrong topic?

There is a whole separate conversation about the credit rewards for combat being stacked heavily against that style of gameplay being consistently sustainable based on itself.

Like also having to stop combat in order to grind for some mats you need in order to level the playing field.

Edit:

I'm just an ignorant peasant, but if you need notfication that you receive increased damage you might need to look at your situational awareness.

Based on what information the game provides me during a combat situation would I recocknize that?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Indeed games with a PvE focus often have a certain unbalance which is not really acceptable in a game which revolves around PvP.

This is somthing a lot of players were really worried about with ED. I am almost fully on the PvE side of the fence but I know the concern was genuine from all sides.

Personally I would be horrified for instance if FD announced that 30% of the dev time in the 2020 update had been spent around purely balancing PvP..... however am certain others here would be delighted with that.

PS Warframe PvP??? wow i have had that game installed since close to launch and honestly i never even knew it had the option of PvP!!!! i thought it was pure coop PvE. shows what i know!

It has PvP, but it's not so popular. The character who runs the show is the guy with the giant plate on his head. Played role in the quest with the 2 Grineer Queens, too.
And then there is Lunaro which is like footie with frames. Likely tried because that other game with footie with cars got so popular. (it's also likely mod in many games to have footie game with edited game assets). Not so popular neither.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I likely mixed that game up with another one.

maybe but possibly not, i have never looked for it so it could be here for all i know

 

[B1rdy]

Indeed games with a PvE focus often have a certain unbalance which is not really acceptable in a game which revolves around PvP.

This is somthing a lot of players were really worried about with ED. I am almost fully on the PvE side of the fence but I know the concern was genuine from all sides.

Personally I would be horrified for instance if FD announced that 30% of the dev time in the 2020 update had been spent around purely balancing PvP..... however am certain others here would be delighted with that.

The thing is PvE and PvP is not that far apart regarding balancing. People just tend to overlook imbalances in PvE when the have an advantage due to that. They fail to realize, that haven an OP über-ship is only fun for so long.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The thing is PvE and PvP is not that far apart regarding balancing. People just tend to overlook imbalances in PvE when the have an advantage due to that. They fail to realize, that haven an OP über-ship is only fun for so long.

yeah i suppose i hide from the imbalances somewhat by ignoring a huge part of engineering - i do the parts that are important to me and ignore the rest.... that is not really possible for PvP however.

but hypothetically if FD decided to for instance clone player ship builds and inject them into npcs, then all of a sudden it would be a problem for everyone.

the thing is for me this issue goes way beyond golden ammo and whether or not we can scan / detect it or not. given what we can already detect on other peoples ships, detecting golden ammo would be consistent, for me that is fairly clear.

whether or not we should be able to know the details of an enemy ship or whether there should be a wolf in sheeps clothes part to the game is also an interesting comment in and of itsself - but then should apply to more than just ammo type.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Like also having to stop combat in order to grind for some mats you need in order to level the playing field.

To date, I've never used premium synth for anything other than jump range and I seem to do okay. Most organised PvP doesn't allow anything other than basic synth with no added damage. While you can't predict that people you're fighting against in organic won't be running premiums, you also can't predict that they won't be running a trainer to give their damage a permanent buff anyway. Regardless of whether or not they're using these methods to increase their damage potential the biggest difference is whether or not they can actually hit in the first place. The more you do organic PvP the more you'll get a feel for the difference between people who can fly well, people who have strong builds, and people who are punching above their weight based on what they have available to them - and you'll also learn to avoid the more toxic people.

Personally I would be horrified for instance if FD announced that 30% of the dev time in the 2020 update had been spent around purely balancing PvP..... however am certain others here would be delighted with that.

Why would balancing the weapons and builds available in the game be only a benefit to PvP? Seems an odd way of looking at it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Why would balancing the weapons and builds available in the game be only a benefit to PvP? Seems an odd way of looking at it.

I was specifically responding to a post that said some games had 30% of an update time based purely on balancing.

ED has balance issues no doubt but 30% of an aleged 100 person team spent on balancing.......... I stand by my horrified comment (I do not think FD would put that amount of time into it to be honest)

 

[Deleted member 192138]

30% of patch notes announcing game balancing changes isn't the same as 30% of dev time dedicated to making those changes in the code.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

30% of patch notes announcing game balancing changes isn't the same as 30% of dev time dedicated to making those changes in the code.

Good point.

 

[Morbad]

but hypothetically if FD decided to for instance clone player ship builds and inject them into npcs, then all of a sudden it would be a problem for everyone.

They'd still be dumb as bricks and would still get their asses handed to them by vaguely competent players in much inferior builds.

The biggest problem with NPCs has always been how they behave in a tactical sense, and the fact that they barely exist in a strategic sense because they have marginal levels of persistence. Gimped builds don't help either, but are a lesser issue.

But yes, it would be a problem in the sense it wouldn't satisfy those looking for a challenging or meaningful combat and would make for a frustrating experience for many bystanders...which is why a more complete NPC overhaul would be needed. NPCs are presented as disposable non-people...scenery or stage props...rather than actual in-game characters.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

indeed i actually meant it would be a problem in terms of it being dull as dishwater... i am not worried about having a challenge, i am all up for that which is why i deliberately dont engineer my ships to the gills................. but if there is 1 thing i hate in all games (so not picking out elite specifically) is "bullet" sponges.

obviously a space ship built for hunting should be able to take some punishement, and a big ship like a conda should be able to take more than a python - for instance........ but i do not want to have a 20 minute battle of attrition every time i have a fight, esp as many missions have me needing to kill 30 or so of them!.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

indeed i actually meant it would be a problem in terms of it being dull as dishwater... i am not worried about having a challenge, i am all up for that which is why i deliberately dont engineer my ships to the gills................. but if there is 1 thing i hate in all games (so not picking out elite specifically) is "bullet" sponges.

obviously a space ship built for hunting should be able to take some punishement, and a big ship like a conda should be able to take more than a python - for instance........ but i do not want to have a 20 minute battle of attrition every time i have a fight, esp as many missions have me needing to kill 30 or so of them!.

Take a guess why I don't play ED anymore.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Take a guess why I don't play ED anymore.

i guess it is a sliding scale so no one is right or wrong, but personally as it is right now i find the general combat TTK in PvE to be pretty ok...... and with my ships i still have to run with tail between legs sometimes.

sure i wont like, i definitely have an equipment edge over my fo... and that is fine for PvE. but importantly (for me) i am not a practically invincible ship stomping on everyone.

whether or not it is good design me managing the game difficulty by ignoring parts of the upgrading content is another discussion, but this is way OT for the op now.

 

[Gavin786]

Anyone heard an update on this, is anyone listening ?

All we really want is :

to have a little icon added to show if other than basic ammo is being used. Could be 2 different colours for standard and premium or if 2 different colors are beyond FDev programmer abilities then we can have 2 different icons one for Standard, one for Premium. Colours are much the best as we can know at a glance if we are in a fair fight or not.

VERY EASY TO DO. Should take artist + dev easily less than an afternoon(unless they insist on having COVAS). And is just a little something that will add a lot to many player experiences. We can forgive not having the COVAS warning as well, I guess they are contracturally scheduled for twice yearly to come in for voice acting, its not important to have the COVAS, just make feature and ship else we will wait a lot.

I also found this cool list of all the existing special effects when I was looking into this :

Adding 2 more is not so hard, and we also have blue there, so Magenta for Premium(that will stand out so we know its happening) + Purple/lighter magenta also for Standard is possible.

It is important to know at a glance that someone isnt playing by the rules of honor for 1v1, organised team matches.

CMDR Gavin786

 

[Old Duck]

More proof that PvP is nothing but trouble

 

[Riverside]

More proof that PvP is nothing but trouble

How would a change like the one in the post directly before yours adversely affect anyone?

 

[Old Duck]

How would a change like the one in the post directly before yours adversely affect anyone?

I said "is" not "would be".

 

[Riverside]

I said "is" not "would be".

So no objection to the proposal then?