Clarification about Monday's PMF and Group announcement

[CMDR Quade]

Monday's announcement by Will was an interesting one because it's unclear what's changed since the last iteration of PMF and Group applications went live. Our group has had a minor faction in game since 2015, for example. We continue to see new player minor factions added to the game on a roughly quarterly basis (and sometimes more frequently).

Here are links to the announcement and application I'm talking about:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/register-for-a-minor-faction.529123/
and
https://tools.elitedangerous.com/en/factions

Specifically, I would like ot know more about a few statements:

From #1: "Player group names must be Elite Related, Lore related, or large long-standing related groups. "

How is this going to be decided and what of their in-game descriptions? For example, I play down in Imperial space most of the time and there are several player minor factions who state in their system descriptions that they were once the elite bodyguards of some Emperor or another. On one hand that's tied to lore and gives the group some reason for existing in ED's universe. On the other hand, how many special former elite Emperor's bodyguard units can there be? Especially if some of these Emperors have been dead for centuries. Surely these aren't the same pilots. My point isn't to shade these groups so much as to ask how FD is going to think about the lore and story of groups when assessing applications.​

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"2) Next, we need to know the type of Player Group/Squadron that you are." PvP, PvE, Both

Since BGS is something every player can engage in through any game mode, what purpose is this question serving? What difference does it make if a group is PvP and applying for a PMF? Are they going to be turned down because it is assumed PvPers don't want to actually work the BGS of their factions? (Again, not saying that's the case. Only wanting clarification.)​

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"3) We now need to know how many members are in your player group."

What about Alts? Most player groups fluctuate in membership, especially as Elite's slow development cycle means they can safely leave and return months later to pick up right where they left off. And let's not get started on all the abandoned PMFs that litter the galaxy. Actually, let's...​

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From the group application page "All "addon" minor factions that have been confirmed as a squatting minor faction will be removed in addition to the main minor faction being removed. "

Typically we think of squatting in ways similar to people registering web domains. Someone might take the PMF name "Mahon's Mayhem" and not actually be from the group Mahon's Mayhem - i.e. they are squatting on the name (I totally made these names up right now, apologies if they're real). Is this the only case? What about abandoned PMFs that have been in game ages after their players abandoned ED for greener pastures? Some still see player support but many float around at single digits of influence taking up space and occupying system descriptions with their delusions of grandeur. Are these squatters?​

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Also, let's clarify removal since a big faction placing a squatting faction facing removal could be a very disruptive deletion. If I have a faction in 14 systems and am found to have produced a squatting faction for some nefarious purpose, that's it? The whole thing is deleted? The knock-on effects could be enormous.​

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Another question: Will FD be sorting out the mismatched requirements between Superpower alignment, Power allegiance, and government type?

PMF allegiances are often confusingly tied to Powerplay and sometimes PMFs are forced to pick between joining a superpower or actually having a faction that's good for their intended Power. Sometimes PMFs are added under the assumption that they are good for their power but are actually bad for their power. For example, the Celestial Light Brigade is a cooperative faction present in 66 star systems. When this group went about picking their government type (4 years ago!) they picked Cooperative because that is one of the three government types that Aisling Duval needs for lower fortification triggers (the other two being communist and confederacy). Cooperative, Communist, and Confederacy minor factions cannot be Imperial because FD says so. Therefore, the squadron cannot pledge support to both its PMF and its Power because the Power (Aisling Duval) is Imperial but the PMF is independent. This is something that is also true for other powers (Zachary Hudson is another good example). This is something that should, at the very least, be explained to players when they apply for a PMF so that they do not mistakenly pick a PMF government type that hamstrings their squadron's ability to properly align itself.​

I'm sure there are other things players want to see addressed and hopefully this thread gets some notice.

 

[Alanzo Firenze]

These clarifications would be most useful for existing PMFs with regards to the definition of these “squatting” minor factions. Some large player groups have already taken into account the presence of “dead” or “failed” PMFs that were adding in game but that are present only in their home system that they have never controlled. Often these factions will put interesting systems at 7-8 factions present, which makes it more difficult to arrange entry into these systems without arranging additional retreat states. I’d be interested to know how such “adon” and “squatting” factions are defined and if there is a timeline for their removal as it may impact dozens of hours of bgs work for the active groups who are working under the assumption that these systems have a certain number of factions present. A sudden unexpected opening in a system could cost 2 weeks of planned expansion progress if suddenly implemented without some warning.

 

[Alanzo Firenze]

It would also be great for super power affiliation to be more flexible with regards to squadrons and their factions. It would be really great if our squadron, which was chosen as a cooperative to help Aisling triggers could actually pledge to imperial powers. It’d also be great if our pilots running bgs missions could also be earning empire rank, but as it stands Imperial Cooperatives cannot yet exist.

 

[Dharrch Streynjer]

Monday's announcement by Will was an interesting one because it's unclear what's changed since the last iteration of PMF and Group applications went live. Our group has had a minor faction in game since 2015, for example. We continue to see new player minor factions added to the game on a roughly quarterly basis (and sometimes more frequently).

Another question: Will FD be sorting out the mismatched requirements between Superpower alignment, Power allegiance, and government type?

PMF allegiances are often confusingly tied to Powerplay and sometimes PMFs are forced to pick between joining a superpower or actually having a faction that's good for their intended Power. Sometimes PMFs are added under the assumption that they are good for their power but are actually bad for their power. For example, the Celestial Light Brigade is a cooperative faction present in 66 star systems. When this group went about picking their government type (4 years ago!) they picked Cooperative because that is one of the three government types that Aisling Duval needs for lower fortification triggers (the other two being communist and confederacy). Cooperative, Communist, and Confederacy minor factions cannot be Imperial because FD says so. Therefore, the squadron cannot pledge support to both its PMF and its Power because the Power (Aisling Duval) is Imperial but the PMF is independent. This is something that is also true for other powers (Zachary Hudson is another good example). This is something that should, at the very least, be explained to players when they apply for a PMF so that they do not mistakenly pick a PMF government type that hamstrings their squadron's ability to properly align itself.​

I'm sure there are other things players want to see addressed and hopefully this thread gets some notice.

This one is definitely top of our list in the ARRC.
Having the wrong government type for Mahon causes no end of grief.

o7

 

[CMDR Quade]

It would also be great for super power affiliation to be more flexible with regards to squadrons and their factions. It would be really great if our squadron, which was chosen as a cooperative to help Aisling triggers could actually pledge to imperial powers. It’d also be great if our pilots running bgs missions could also be earning empire rank, but as it stands Imperial Cooperatives cannot yet exist.

Yep and judging by the constant addition of new PMFs that are "supporting" a power but are the totally wrong government type, players don't have easy access to this information. Many assume they are doing the right thing because a federal PMF should be good for a federation power (or imperial, or alliance!) only to find out they've done something harmful to the power and will make enemies of that power's BGS team if they seek to spread and promote their faction. Literally there are systems where Imperials are promoting Fed local factions because those are the only factions present with the proper government types.

 

[CMDR Quade]

Yesterday there was another post by a player looking for information about his group's application for a PMF.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/some-additional-questions-about-registration.529413/

I'm linking and quoting it here to note that there are many questions groups have about this process.

I registered my community as a "Player Group", but did not receive any confirmation in my email. I guess I was expecting some kind of confirmation. I have additional questions:

1. When and where will I get confirmation my Player Group submission was received?
2. Are there any recommended guidelines beyond what was posted here that will improve chances of getting approved as a Minor Faction?
3. Beyond meeting minimal size requirements (currently 10), does the size of my group have any impact on getting Minor Faction approval?
4. Do I need to wait until I get email confirmation on my Player Group before registering a Minor Faction?
5. If I register my Minor Faction as Independent, does it have to start in independent space (ie. outside a major faction territory) or can it still reside within owned territory?
6. What is the best point of contact to direct any future questions?

 

[Chaparral]

10 Players is still a significant threshold. You'd need to find 10 players with a similar political and game style mindset that are willing to commit time to a game that is several years old and lacks many of the basic communication features in other mmos. This prohibits any kind of recruitment/growth from a size of 2 for example.

It is also weird, from my point of view, that squadrons aren't designed as an integral part of pmfs. There is no in game pmf bulletin board, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like editing the squadron intro text has been eliminated.

I currently run a squad that is sitting on a name for an inactive pmf, and I putter around doing missions keeping my home system happy. If there was a mechanic that allowed for expansion of facilities/services at a system that did not involve a CG, I might be more interested in PMFs. As it stands now... holding a bunch of stations with the same services as before I tried to grab them is pretty unattractive game play.

 

[Alanzo Firenze]

Whether or not there is a plan or timeline for the removal of any existing PMFs dormant or otherwise would be an awesome thing to ask @Will Flanagan about once he is finished with his daring SRV race on the livestream.