About the new proposal on how the FSS should show more efficiently info about planet POI's

[Drelthar]

Feels like an opportunity to add more gameplay in.

Use the proposed solution as the default behaviour, then add a fun scanning mechanic which allows you to learn the true situation if you want, which happens to take the current amount of time it does to resolve the amount of geo/bio POIs

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Feels like an opportunity to add more gameplay in.

Use the proposed solution as the default behaviour, then add a fun scanning mechanic which allows you to learn the true situation if you want, which happens to take the current amount of time it does to resolve the amount of geo/bio POIs

Yes I will add it later to the OP because in the end what we all want is being busy doing something during this time rather than just staring at the screen

 

[nanite2000]

I don't understand why FDev can't simply implement both suggestions: Scan the planet and get an immediate 'Likely/Unlikely' POI notification, and then continue to scan in the background (as it does now) and update the relevant info displays when the scan is complete.

This way, a player can immediately move on to another planet on 'unlikely' scans.

 

[Ezren]

Yes. But they're not shown on the FSS scan until the whole planet resolves. Unless I missed a different location where I can find the information, too.

Please note: this will not affect Thargoid or Guardian sites, which will show up instantaneously.

Best guess is that these planets aren't going to be generated, but are pre-generated with these sites, so they don't fall into the same issues.

 

[zipline]

These scans run in the background once you start them, so all we need is some simple indicator(s) once they have completed that tells us if the body has POIs. This could be similar to the landable planet marker on the system map, or even a coloured ring around the body in the FSS view (like mission targets) or an extra tab on the system map panel or icon when you select the body. Then those cmdrs who want to wait can, and those who don't can kick off the scan and move on to the next body and view all the POI info at the end.

 

[Stealthie]

These scans run in the background once you start them, so all we need is some simple indicator(s) once they have completed that tells us if the body has POIs. This could be similar to the landable planet marker on the system map, or even a coloured ring around the body in the FSS view (like mission targets) or an extra tab on the system map panel or icon when you select the body. Then those cmdrs who want to wait can, and those who don't can kick off the scan and move on to the next body and view all the POI info at the end.

Exactly.

No idea how it all works but the FSS obviously reads the data used to populate the planet somehow and that takes time to complete.
All that needs to happen is for the FSS to report the presence of Geo/Bio POIs to the player as soon as it finds one.

Honestly, there doesn't really need to be any change, though.
Just FSS-scan a system planet by planet, without hanging around waiting for Bio/Geo PIOs to be reported.
Once you're done, quit out of the FSS and open the sysmap.
Click on a planet and the info sidebar tells you if there are Bio/Geo POIs present on a planet.

It's not like it's a big inconvenience because you can't actually do anything else, such as fly toward a planet with POIs on it, while you're using the FSS.

Of all the bugs and oddball things currently in the game, this is really not something they should be prioritising.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

It's interesting to me that we can go off after initiating a "long delay" FSS scan of a body, go scan other bodies, and then go back to the original scanned body to review the "long delay scan" results.

If we're quick, we catch the tail-end of the spinny icon delay, and then it finishes in short order.

If we take longer than the delay, the results are there waiting for us.


This indicates that the process of identifying the exact make-up of the body's interesting site resolution is already paralleled up behind the scenes.

Perhaps all that is needed to make best use of this mechanism is a queue of detailed scan surface results that we, as pilots, can see and interact with.

It could be as simple as a list of scans triggered/completed on the system map, eg.

XYZ A B 1 - Scan IN PROGRESS <spinny-icon>
XYZ A B 2 - Scan complete: 3 GEOLOGICAL, 1 BIOLOGICAL
XYZ A B 3 - Scan IN PROGRESS <spinny-icon>
XYZ A 2 - Scan complete: Nothing found

...which resolves in real-time, as the background generation/resolution process completes for each body.


In truth, this info is something that would be convenient right now, even if there wasn't a delay. I'd love an easy-reference list of those detailed scan outcomes as a reference. The info available in the top right of the FSS isn't available anywhere else (ie. in full, in the same format). If you've left the FSS, the only way to double-check exactly that info is to go back into the FSS and resolve the body again... assuming you aren't using a pen and paper!

My suggestion is to put a consise "pen-and-paper equivalent" list somewhere easily accessible, and have it update in real-time as detailed surface info is resolved.

 

[nanite2000]

Honestly, there doesn't really need to be any change, though.
Just FSS-scan a system planet by planet, without hanging around waiting for Bio/Geo PIOs to be reported.
Once you're done, quit out of the FSS and open the sysmap.
Click on a planet and the info sidebar tells you if there are Bio/Geo POIs present on a planet.

I don’t think that’s exactly true.

The info sidebar in the system map will only tell you if Bio/Geo POI’s are present of you’ve completed a DSS.

Admittedly, I haven’t played for a few months, so my info may be out of date if this behaviour has changed during that time...

 

[photomankc]

3rd proposal - Keep current system but add icons to UI panel and System map indicating bodies with bio/geo sites like we already have for landable planets.

Why is it that Frontier can't be consistent with implementing information?

Yes!!!!!
Why can’t this be done?!?!

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

3rd proposal - Keep current system but add icons to UI panel and System map indicating bodies with bio/geo sites like we already have for landable planets.

Why is it that Frontier can't be consistent with implementing information?

Added to the OP!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I prefer the new proposal over what we have. I don't mind a bit of uncertainty. To me, that's all part of exploring.

Saying that I would be also be happy with a straight yes or no and the DSS gives us the number and type.

Also the nav panel and system map needs to be more consistant with what the FSS discovers.

 

[Mengy]

3rd proposal - Keep current system but add icons to UI panel and System map indicating bodies with bio/geo sites like we already have for landable planets.

Why is it that Frontier can't be consistent with implementing information?

That's actually a great idea. Seems like it would be easy to implement as well.

 

[Zieman]

Agreed - especially if the new "Probability Index" is erroneously applied to Biologicals as well.

Doing so would seem pointless, as I've never had any delays when scanning a Body that only contained "Other", "Human" or Biologicals - but no Geologicals.
Only Geologicals appear to cause the time-consuming issue and hence only they should be target of any related changes.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Zieman]

3rd proposal - Keep current system but add icons to UI panel and System map indicating bodies with bio/geo sites like we already have for landable planets.

Why is it that Frontier can't be consistent with implementing information?

Yes, and a separate marker for each POI type.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Honestly I'm a bit shocked they proposed this change at all. It makes me wonder whether or not FD really understands the exploration gameplay loop.

I'm also a bit surprised so many people seem to like the proposal. To me it seems so much incredibly worse. Like bad enough to make me consider giving up Elite exploration, that's how much I dislike it.

The reason I'm (mostly) positive about this change, is because given the choice between sitting around for 30 seconds doing nothing while waiting for POI sites to resolve, and flying out there and probing the world myself, is that I'm already doing the latter. I use the FSS to find likely candidates for "interesting things," and fly out there as soon as I find one, and search for other worlds visually along the way. Sitting still and doing nothing, as I waited for the timer to finish swirling, was one of the reasons why I didn't do much exploring pre-FSS in the first place. Seriously, I hate forced idleness in video games.

Personally, I would've been fine with long resolve times if:

• I could use the FSS while throttled up.
• The results would be shown on the navigation panel (left) in the cockpit once resolved, above the planetary details from the system map.
• I could use the FSS while throttled up.
• The results would be shown on the system map, above the planetary details.
• I could use the FSS while throttled up.

Did I mention using the FSS while throttled up? The FSS can be used on the move, I've done it by using the gravity of gas giants to slow down the braking effect of throttling down. It's more difficult, yes, and changing SOIs while in the FSS can be problematic, but I'd much rather make that choice myself, rather than having it forced upon me for no good reason.

I do think that once again, Frontier's "one size fits all" approach is the wrong way to go. Getting quick results on the probability suits players like me who don't mind uncertainty (though I think <60% is way too high for the "unlikely" threshold, I'd prefer <30% myself) as long as it gets us moving, while still allowing players to wait for the exact results. Combine that with the ability to use the FSS on the move, and being able to see the results outside the FSS, and you'll have a lot of happy explorers on your hands. The more options the better IMO.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I think getting probabilities to check out that turn out to be duds is more waste of time than checking what kind of PoIs are present. What's wrong with showing which bodies have PoI and then decide which ones to resolve further?
All the RNG does is compound disappointment on disappointment when you draw that dud. We do it all the time for some instance we'd like to show up. We roll for resources. We roll for asteroid yields. We roll for missions. We roll for supply of goods. We roll for equipment availability. We roll for trades. We roll for engineer outcomes. And even if it's not exactly rolling every time - the game is designed like looking for needles in haystacks, that's pretty much rolling randomly for me too. I don't really get the fascination with it.

And if it takes time to generate that PoI info - so be it. I get it - it's limited by engine, code and design.

 

[Darkfyre99]

It's not looking up in a database, the stellar forge is procedurally generating each planet everytime we use the FSS to scan one. It's actually generating and locating every surface POI when the FSS sits there for 10-20 seconds spinning its wheels.

That's why FD is proposing this new probability table lookup mechanic, so they can skip procedurally generating the planet in the FSS.

I'd rather they optimized the code to simply generate the POI tally totals faster. It doesn't need to physically locate the POI's on the surface, the FSS just needs to count them all up. The probes can do the physical location part if we choose to fly there based on the FSS findings.

My current understanding of the process is that the delay isn’t in the counting, it’s in the elimination.

Let’s say we’re scanning a planet with potential biological life at ten different sites. If there’s no active geology, then it’s relatively simple chore, processing wise, to check each site to see if it’s in a valid location: neither too high or too to be on the surface. Check the initial conditions, check for impact history, and you’re golden. That’s why bio sites (and the odd crater related geo site on geologically inactive worlds) resolve so quickly on non-active bodies.

Compare that with a site on a geologically active world. You need to compute the history of that site all the way to the end. Did the initial seeding event come from an impact? Then you need to check for subduction, uplift, folding, past volcanism covering the site, other geological events, as well as later impacts. That’s where the delay happens.

It could very well be that vacuum-based life candidates were seeded with thousands of sites, and the few we see are those that survived, sort of like the great filter solution of Fermi’s Paradox.

 

[Ezren]

Honestly if we just give the probability and then we can decide if we want to sit and wait for the planet to resolve or not, it'd be an improvement, this seems like a sidegrade.

I understand there's background things that prevent it from just resolving quickly, so if the expectations are frontloaded we can know whether or not to invest the time to complete the scan or move on. This could be how it's actually going to work, but the wording on the announcement is a little fuzzy on what happens after the "Likelihood" rating.

 

[Winterwalker]

Honestly if we just give the probability and then we can decide if we want to sit and wait for the planet to resolve or not, it'd be an improvement, this seems like a sidegrade.

Possibly. I don't personally have a huge problem with the probability scan .. though that might depend how many planets 'likely' to have formations you scan, turn out not to have any! We're a bit spoiled with fully listed sites though I think. I realise the FSS gives composition data - so it's a very capable scanner - but with (exact number) of sites listed too, it doesn't leave a lot of fuzzy ambiguity that might lead you out to map a planet just to see, in other words exploring and discovery. I think it's very easy to argue that the proposed system is worse for the individual commander but I also think it has some arguable benefits for the game at large. At the moment we just have a different sort of cherry picking to the ELW picking we had before FSS.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

ALTERNATIVE 5: Suggested by @Gauntlet
Keep the current system and add a graphical identification to all planets that have bio/gelological POI's in the system map once they have been scanned and resolved. Something similar to the blue circle that identifies the landable planet. It could be a specific symbol for the biological POI and another one for the geological one.

^^ that

proposed fix is back to the days of RNG and hunting for POI on the ground... NO THANKS

no new symbol though just change the blue line (landable symbol) to red or some other colour of your desire, perhaps orange?

meh we wont get it, will be a car crash