Is there even a reason for belt clusters to exist?

Cryvern

Cryvern
I just went back to one to test if they had an increased chance for some uncommon asteroids with surface, fissures or even more chance to have more expensive resources. And my research told me they are just like a normal ring if you picked some 7 asteroids and flung them out to space. They don't have resources, they don't have incredible vistas, they don't have anything for players to go there and engage in gameplay of any kind. Why are they even in the game?
 
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varonica

varonica
Because asteroid belts. For the most part asteroid belts are unnoticeable to the average space ship, but certain areas in space, lagrange points etc, you get clusters of asteroids, this is how reality works, this is what we would expect from an asteroid belt. Not everything in space has or needs a use, but it's still there to make the simulation better for players!
 

Cryvern

Cryvern
varonica said:
Because asteroid belts. For the most part asteroid belts are unnoticeable to the average space ship, but certain areas in space, lagrange points etc, you get clusters of asteroids, this is how reality works, this is what we would expect from an asteroid belt. Not everything in space has or needs a use, but it's still there to make the simulation better for players!
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Reality may work like that, but this is a game, if it is there someone implemented it. It once had a purpose, the game changed and the DEV's forgot about it. If there is something inside the game and it is outdated and has no use it should be reworked to relevancy. It would be much more emersive if the game use every single nook and cranny of it's fictional space.
 

varonica

varonica
CMDR Neumann said:
Can you not use mining lasers on them? I haven’t been to one in a while, when you say no resources what exactly do you mean?
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I've mined them, they're asteroids just like all the others, perfectly minable and plenty of resources, of course this was pre-blowy up days so I don't know if they have added explodable asteroids to them, I will have to check one day.

Cryvern said:
Reality may work like that, but this is a game, if it is there someone implemented it. It once had a purpose, the game changed and the DEV's forgot about it.
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This is a game trying to create an as true to life model of the galaxy as possible, the stellar forge is designed to evolve solar systems from primordial spinning clouds of dust, this results in planets, stars and leftover material that doesn't make it into landable bodies, procedural generation don't you know! They are already there in the solar systems, the stellar forge modeled them, we have asteroid models already in game, why not put them in? And no they have never had a use. The same argument can be used for a lot of other things. A lot of players have asked for comets for a long time, even if there is no current game play associated with them, no doubt if they were in game you would also be wanting them removed because they are "useless".

I am quite happy to have things in game that are of no other use than to extend the model of the galaxy. Asteroid clusters are part of asteroid belts, without them there is no way of actually interacting with an asteroid belt, sometimes the clusters affect your entry to the system, they affect the local gravitational gradient and slow you down, they contribute to the total mass of star systems as created by the stellar forge. It certainly isn't perfect, but they already exist due to the way the galaxy is modeled, so why not have them in?
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
varonica said:
The same argument can be used for a lot of other things. A lot of players have asked for comets for a long time, even if there is no current game play associated with them, no doubt if they were in game you would also be wanting them removed because they are "useless".
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I won't speak for anyone else, but for me, correct. If comets got put in with no mechanics or gameplay elements associated with them, I'd consider that a total waste of developer time that could be better spent elsewhere, just like the current state of many things in the game.

As Cryvern reverse-ninja'ed, nobody is asking for them to be removed, but rather improved in terms of game mechanics. Put NPC hideouts in them, wrecks, other obscure things.

When the game first launched, asteroid belts and planetary rings were fairly indistinguishable, except that rings have a much higher density of asteroids. Now (Rings) also have:
  • "Special" asteroids/hotspots
  • A variety of Resource Sites for hunting Pirates
  • Are often the location of various stellar phenomena.

Meanwhile, asteroid fields are just asteroid fields, rings with a bunch of activities removed from them.
 
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Cryvern

Cryvern
varonica said:
This is a game trying to create an as true to life model of the galaxy as possible, the stellar forge is designed to evolve solar systems from primordial spinning clouds of dust, this results in planets, stars and leftover material that doesn't make it into landable bodies, procedural generation don't you know! They are already there in the solar systems, the stellar forge modeled them, we have asteroid models already in game, why not put them in? And no they have never had a use. The same argument can be used for a lot of other things. A lot of players have asked for comets for a long time, even if there is no current game play associated with them, no doubt if they were in game you would also be wanting them removed because they are "useless".
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Unlike, these garbage asteroid clusters, comets would be an eye-candy that would make the universe seem alive, in motion. I only want things changed when they are useless and ugly as .

varonica said:
so why not have them in?
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Have I made the point to remove them? My point was to improve them. They are ugly and useless, let's try to make them at least less ugly and try to interlace some already existing gameplay into them to make players visit them more or search for them.
 

Cryvern

Cryvern
CMDR Neumann said:
Can you not use mining lasers on them? I haven’t been to one in a while, when you say no resources what exactly do you mean?
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You can, but I mean, why would you? You get only 7 or 8 of them per cluster, limited resources, no higher chance for higher pay out, once you mined them you have to fly to another one to get more useless stuff. Just go to a ring it has it all.
 

varonica

varonica
Cryvern said:
Unlike, these garbage asteroid clusters, comets would be an eye-candy that would make the universe seem alive, in motion. I only want things changed when they are useless and ugly as gently caress.


Have I made the point to remove them? My point was to improve them. They are ugly and useless, let's try to make them at least less ugly and try to interlace some already existing gameplay into them to make players visit them more or search for them.
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They are proceduraly generated, I thought I pointed that out? If you were to try and put existent game play into them it would need to be handcrafted in because what we have at the moment is what we get from running the stellar forge. To put hand crafted events in for asteroid belts it would only apply to a few, 99.999999999999999999% of them would still be exactly as we see. This is why we have only a few asteroid stations in ring systems, so no I have no objection to putting hand crafted stuff in, but I do have objections to removing stuff because someone else thinks they are pointless.

Even with handcrafted stuff inserted into them most of them would still be "pointless" and that's fine by me.
 

Cryvern

Cryvern
varonica said:
They are proceduraly generated, I thought I pointed that out? If you were to try and put existent game play into them it would need to be handcrafted in because what we have at the moment is what we get from running the stellar forge. To put hand crafted events in for asteroid belts it would only apply to a few, 99.999999999999999999% of them would still be exactly as we see. This is why we have only a few asteroid stations in ring systems, so no I have no objection to putting hand crafted stuff in, but I do have objections to removing stuff because someone else thinks they are pointless.

Even with handcrafted stuff inserted into them most of them would still be "pointless" and that's fine by me.
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Oh, would it? What about the millions of minor faction owned outposts that sprung out in the human bubble out of the nowhere? Were those handcrafted? Do you really think BGS can't handle sorting out by factors, states, economy and other things to generate something different in clusters?

Also, do you know why it wouldn't be considered pointless anymore by 99% of the player base? Simple because there would be something meaningful to do there, just like in planetside missions that tells you to invade an outpost to scan some beacon to gather intel on your target,now outpost have more meaning other than just being there for shows. It may be in a very nich gameplay but it's there.
 
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Glassfish

Glassfish
You can deep core mine asteroid belts. I got three in one cluster once. The system security forces stayed with me the whole time, keeping pirates off my back.

It would be interesting if you could use asteroid clusters to break interdiction. If you are in range, you can drop out into the asteroid cluster giving you a chance to find some cover. Would make interdiction combat more fun if there’s cover.

This could be rolled out to include stations too! gankers less likely to interdict you near a station if you could drop out in range of it’s defences.

(Imagine if you dropped to a station to avoid a pirate and the pirates control the station, so they take you out instead 😆 )
 

varonica

varonica
Cryvern said:
Oh, would it? What about the millions of minor faction owned outposts that sprung out in the human bubble out of the nowhere? Were those handcrafted? Do you really think BGS can't handle sorting out by factors, states, economy and other things to generate something different in clusters?
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They were put there by hand, yes they were.
 
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