External view with target reticule

[Friedenreich Xante]

What the title says. So basically activate external view with ship control and target reticule. Not that I'd use it constantly, but I'd find it nice to fight from an external viewpoint, like it's possible with many flight simulators and such. We have beautiful ships and a livery system, yet we only get to see the dashboard, at least in the heat of the fight. I know it's not very immersive, but still.

[EDIT]
It's not a "third person view" I'm suggesting, but an external cam, so there's no handwavium involved. There's an external cam fitted to the ship so he can see what happens from outside, much like a multi-crew gunner does, with a HUD overlay. I mean, today's cars have several external cams. You'll still have halve the view blocked by your ship.

 

[Lestat]

If you are talking like a third-person View for combat It not going to happen. It gives those players an unfair advantage vs players in the cockpit.

Now if you want to see your ship while in combat you can do so. But you will not be able to aim.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

It gives those players an unfair advantage vs players in the cockpit.

Why is it an unfair advantage if it's available to everyone?

And why is it an unfair advantage at all in the first place? It's not like your ship suddenly moves faster, the weapons do more damage or anything. It's just you POV that changes. And wether you see your cockpit or your ship itself blocking half the view, it strictly doesn't change the tides.

 

[Lestat]

Why is it an unfair advantage if it's available to everyone?

See here where you are ignoring my point. Everyone would be FORCED to play Third Person view if it added. To get the same Advantage as the Third person. You can't ignore that fact.

And why is it an unfair advantage at all in the first place? It's not like your ship suddenly moves faster, the weapons do more damage or anything. It's just you POV that changes. And wether you see your cockpit or your ship itself blocking half the view, it strictly doesn't change the tides.

So basically you are ignoring the fact the Cockpit block more of the view. Keep trying. While you have this Mini Ship blocking the View in Third person view and have more Area view overall. So the Third person view has an I win feature and the Cockpit users lose.

Players like you tried this argument years ago. Please look at games with both and see who has the advantage.

I had this post years ago. It showed two different views from a Combat game. The first person View was limited it like what you see from your own eyes. Now Third-person View it likes having a Drone fly Behind you giving you a wider view. It could be used to seeing more. Plus having the VR tracker or head tracker added you can see 360 degrees without worrying about any physical Blockage from inside the ship. Like the Back door or Windows or walls of a ship. Now Let me ask you who has the Advantage again? And I will answer it. The player in Third person View.

 

[KillaALF]

I don't know about that - I'd say that without the radar display available in TPV you would actually be at a disadvantage when it comes to Situational Awareness compared to FPV. Also, no headlook available in TPV (presumably), which I'd rate an even bigger disadvantage.

 

[Lestat]

I don't know about that - I'd say that without the radar display available in TPV you would actually be at a disadvantage when it comes to Situational Awareness compared to FPV. Also, no headlook available in TPV (presumably), which I'd rate an even bigger disadvantage.

You really don't think VR players are going to fall for that, do you? They have the equipment and they will want to use it even in third-person view. Then we have radar that part of the gameplay also.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

You really don't think VR players are going to fall for that, do you? They have the equipment and they will want to use it even in third-person view. Then we have radar that part of the gameplay also.

Why be so aggressive? Is this an emotionally triggering topic to you? If so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. Now please let's stay factual.

If the view is such a huge advantage, what do you make of the different cockpits of the players? There are huge differences here, whether you fight in a Mamba, a FDL, a FDS or whatever.

I serously think you make a much, much bigger advantage of it than it actually is, and even if, there are so many other thinks giving advantages or disadvantages in the game, yet noone is FORCED to use them or even feels coerced to use them, so that's no point from your side. You said it was unfair, and it's not, because it would only be unfair only if the use was limited to some players, yet it would be available to all players. And I'm pretty sure not everyone would use it all the time, this is overly exagerated from your side. The cockpit view is by far not that much restricted, at least not in all ships (but those differences in ship's cockpit views don't seem to mean much to you, oh well).

 

[Lestat]

Why be so aggressive? Is this an emotionally triggering topic to you? If so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. Now please let's stay factual.

No I am stating facts. But I had 40 years of gameplay under my belt. When they added third-person View in games it hurt games.

If the view is such a huge advantage, what do you make of the different cockpits of the players? There are huge differences here, whether you fight in a Mamba, a FDL, a FDS or whatever.

You know this game has a lot of ships. Some non-combat and some combat. So why bring it up. The third-person view will Exploit the game. Yet we know you know it but you will ignore it.

I serously think you make a much, much bigger advantage of it than it actually is, and even if, there are so many other thinks giving advantages or disadvantages in the game, yet noone is FORCED to use them or even feels coerced to use them, so that's no point from your side.

No what we have is you ignoring the advantages that all. Frontier already pointed those Advantages out years ago. I am guessing you are a new player who has not read about those issues.

You said it was unfair, and it's not, because it would only be unfair only if the use was limited to some players, yet it would be available to all players. And I'm pretty sure not everyone would use it all the time, this is overly exagerated from your side. The cockpit view is by far not that much restricted, at least not in all ships (but those differences in ship's cockpit views don't seem to mean much to you, oh well).

Here your problem. You float this boat that it will be available to all player. Yet you ignore the fact players don't want to float between 2 modes to do their combat. They want to play Their way. You know less is more. They want to do combat as they did 35 years ago in the original Elite.

I don't want to remove my hands from a flight stick because someone wants a third-person Easy mode and for me to win I have to drop to their level. Sorry, laziness is not a skill.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Here your problem. You float this boat that it will be available to all player. Yet you ignore the fact players don't want to float between 2 modes to do their combat. They want to play Their way. You know less is more. They want to do combat as they did 35 years ago in the original Elite.

I don't want to remove my hands from a flight stick because someone wants a third-person Easy mode and for me to win I have to drop to their level. Sorry, laziness is not a skill.

Do not forget, that there the 3rd person view for the Gunner in multi-crew was pretty controversial too...


I have the same experiences with 1st and 3rd person views in games, despite how much you like the 1st person view, but sooner or later you will "learn" that 3rd person view is going to be option to use... as that in most cases will allow you todo things that you could not do in 1st person view.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

[..] Yet we know you know it but you will ignore it. [...] No what we have is you ignoring the advantages that all. Frontier already pointed those Advantages out years ago. I am guessing you are a new player who has not read about those issues.

Here your problem. You float this boat that it will be available to all player. Yet you ignore the fact players don't want to float between 2 modes to do their combat. They want to play Their way. You know less is more. They want to do combat as they did 35 years ago in the original Elite.

I don't want to remove my hands from a flight stick because someone wants a third-person Easy mode and for me to win I have to drop to their level. Sorry, laziness is not a skill.

Again, being rude, assuming what I know and asserting I choose to ignore stuff, assuming what "all players want"... go troll somewhere else, my discussion with you is over.

And no, I haven't read 10 years of decision making regarding this game, and I won't. This suggestion has been placed here, you have your opinion (but obviouly bad manners at venting them...) I have stated mine, let's give others some room, and decision makers will make a decision. If the suggestion doesn't make it, I won't cry nearly as much as you apparently will if it does, I think everyone got that point at least.

 

[KillaALF]

No I am stating facts. But I had 40 years of gameplay under my belt. When they added third-person View in games it hurt games.

That's not a fact, but personal opinion. Hell, "Pong" was a TPV game. I'd say it very much depends on the game.

 

[Sylow]

While i don't agree on the tone of the topic, i also do agree that upgrading the outside view would be bad for the game. As stated, we had other games out there, where both views are available. And in each of them, the outside view turned out to be superior.

Just as a random examples: In space games Freelancer comes to my mind. On more recent games, although not in space, MW5 just again shows the same thing. You can fight in the cockpit view, but the outside view is superior. The second one is COOP only, so it's not as much of an issue, but in the first on PvP enabled servers outside view was the way to do things.

Adding this to ED would result in the same effect. And that's before mentioning that it would completely change the feeling of the game. A lot of focus of ED is on the "flight simulator in space" aspect. It's what actually for many people, me included, makes the game any good. Adding a viable arcade style outside view combat mode would kill that. I would not enjoy that at all.

Of course, there would be one way to handle this in a "realistic" way, which would not destroy the simulation aspect: the outside camera would be a small drone, following your ship. Targetable and destructible. Possibly also including a "connection lost" screen for a several second when the camera is destroyed, before a new one is deployed. But i somehow got the feeling that this again would not be accepted?

 

[Zieman]

Of course, there would be one way to handle this in a "realistic" way, which would not destroy the simulation aspect: the outside camera would be a small drone, following your ship. Targetable and destructible. Possibly also including a "connection lost" screen for a several second when the camera is destroyed, before a new one is deployed. But i somehow got the feeling that this again would not be accepted?

Quoted for truth.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

Generally, outside cameras are to me perfectly compatible with a space flight simulator. Must be a camera attached to the hull, though, not floating in space, if immersion is important to you, but...

Of course, there would be one way to handle this in a "realistic" way, which would not destroy the simulation aspect: the outside camera would be a small drone, following your ship. Targetable and destructible. Possibly also including a "connection lost" screen for a several second when the camera is destroyed, before a new one is deployed. But i somehow got the feeling that this again would not be accepted?

...I like this variant, unless it adds another "outside cam limpet controller" module

I remember a game where there was an outside view monitor. I think it was Vega Strike, not sure. But maybe this would be an alternative? Dunno where to place it though, on our already crowded HUD...

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Still confident I wouldn’t have trouble dunking on people regardless of what view they used.

Being able to read the sensor panel goes a long way— a glance at that gives me all the information I need to keep track of those around me. In a way, it is a third person perspective.

Doubt it will ever happen anyway.

 

[Kissamies]

Yeah, I can't support this. I prefer to maintain the simulator aspects the game still has.

 

[Atol]

Oh ya. If we had this I would own every attacks. Better view. Being able to see 360 view. Overall I will have the Advantage over cockpit view.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I think third person view would be kind of useless in elite. It is useful in shooters or rpgs like Skyrim, withcher etc.... but those are not set in space. For it to be useful they would have to put the whole cockpit overlay onto the third person POV. At that point why not just put a bobble head of a ship on your dash lol.

I do not really see a need for it. I get my fix of third person ship gazing when I am landing or taking off (only real reason I have ADC on my ships).

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

If you are talking like a third-person View for combat It not going to happen. It gives those players an unfair advantage vs players in the cockpit.

Now if you want to see your ship while in combat you can do so. But you will not be able to aim.

Sometimes I wonder why you troll the suggestion sub forum just to continually shoot things down for dumb reasons.

 

[Lestat]

Sometimes I wonder why you troll the suggestion sub forum just to continually shoot things down for dumb reasons.

I just expressing my view. We could also wonder why you Troll bad ideas.