Lifetime backers

[Mr_Zeno]

As a LEP owner I haven't had a reason to complain about what I've received. I don't think that I need compensating because something is delayed, or I haven't received a freebie "this year". One happy Elite player.

If Frontier really wanted to make me happier, put Planet Coaster and Planet Zoo on GOG.

 

[lenna]

I wonder if you are aware that unfair terms are not legally binding.

We are not talking about unfair terms though, unfair terms would be restrictive covenants that breech your rights or overly constrain your actions beyond what could be considered reasonable.

I wonder if an indefinite delivery term for a product would be considered an unfair term?

Nope, I strongly doubt it. The fact that no delivery term nor specific content was specified means that the precedent of "Caveat Emptor" applies.

If the LEP was explicitly bounded by specific content then you might have a point, but it was not - when FD eventually terminate development of ED then there will be reasonable due cause for a postmortem analysis of the LEP and whether it was worth it or not but until that time any complaints about pace of delivery is purely unjustified.

 

[bitstorm]

does it actually make firm business sense to have a development team working for two years+ and then give the work away for free? Unlike other 'monetised' game models there is currently no viable, relaible method for the developers to ensure a large and predicatable revenue stream to pay for their work... Unless you believe we are about to embark on a 'pay-to-win' adventure too - which would surely encourage a portion of the playerbase to abandon the game...

Warframe is the obvious example? Not that I play it or play many free to play games.

There are a lot of free to play games out there monetized through micro-transactions, in fact isn't this the most financially successful game model out there right now?

Your dev team isn't working for free clearly ED is monetized currently. (coincidentally with the free expansions paid cosmetics model)

If you can bring all players to version parity (by making the 2020 update free) you can significantly reduce tech-debt and therefore dev/manpower costs going forward.

 

[Riverside]

Aye yes makes sense.

But for me I can see what they've said and I can see what I think makes most business sense.

Ultimately which path would Frontier follow?

I mean that's my view on it.

Spoiler

You're walking down a path hand in hand with David Braben and there's a fork round the corner, you ask David and he says "we will go left!".
But when you turn the corner the left path is full of stones and obstructions, while the right path looks lovely. Will David still go left?
"No Let's go right" - says David!

​

A few years ago people were talking about all future expansions might be free. As a business model, putting aside the LEP issue (or refunding the remaining value) I thought it was feasible.

 

[Riverside]

Perhaps - but to date we have been given a clear indication of the plan for 2020 and until they officially announce a change to that plan then there is no cause for complaint nor alarmist statements.

Even if the pending Premium Expansion has a further delay announced, the only time there would be cause for complaint might be if it actually gets officially cancelled.

But there is a lot more they could do to keep the community updated with progress. They used to. Only another 6-12 months to go

 

[Stigbob]

I wonder if you are aware that unfair terms are not legally binding.

I wonder if an indefinite delivery term for a product would be considered an unfair term?

No they'd just explain what "lifetime" means to you, then snigger once you left. Or maybe right to your face, depends how visibly upset about a video game you are.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Warframe is the obvious example? Not that I play it or play many free to play games.

I don't know - never either heard of, or played it.

There are a lot of free to play games out there monetized through micro-transactions, in fact isn't this the most financially successful game model out there right now?

Probably

Your dev team isn't working for free clearly ED is monetized currently.

Really? How?

If you can bring all players to version parity (by making the 2020 update free) you can significantly reduce tech-debt and therefore dev/manpower costs going forward.

Wonderful idea... and how are all of these costs, going forward, met if no revenue for development is raised by sales? I seriously doubt that the revenue raised by cosmetics will fund continuing development.

Of course, if ED could be ported to mobile phones... Although it is a bit too niche currently to attract younger players, but that, obviously, can be addressed, going forward...

 

[bitstorm]

No they'd just explain what "lifetime" means to you, then snigger once you left. Or maybe right to your face, depends how visibly upset about a video game you are.

How come your comments are always so snidey?

 

[Riverside]

How come your comments are always so snidey?

Just does it for the likes I think. 'Edgy'.

 

[lenna]

But there is a lot more they could do to keep the community updated with progress. They used to. Only another 6-12 months to go

It was a different set of circumstances then, we were in a period of running updates to the existing product where as now we are clearly in the closing stages of the ramp up for the next Premium Expansion and we will hear more when things are ready to be announced.

There may be some kind of update regarding ED as a whole towards the end of this month at the absolute earliest but as stated before - I would not expect to be any updates of substance till FD are much closer to the release of the relevant content. To expect otherwise is not realistic and is (at best) questionable in terms of being a justifiable expectation.

 

[Stigbob]

How come your comments are always so snidey?

Fact checking the uninformed isn't snidey.

 

[Stigbob]

@Riverside Do let us know how you get on with that refund from support.

Just a guess, but the reason he's always telling us he wants one is because they just laughed.

 

[bitstorm]

I don't know - never either heard of, or played it.

Well maybe Fortnite then? You have heard of this?

I don't play either, but both are very successful financially based on giving the game away for free. The point is the model works right?

Really? How?

I am confused?? Cosmetics right? Players buy Cosmetics (now through Arx). ie https://arx.elitedangerous.com/

Wonderful idea... and how are all of these costs, going forward, met if no revenue for development is raised by sales? I seriously doubt that the revenue raised by cosmetics will fund continuing development.

Well I cited games that are very successful with this model which surely shows it's possible.

But here it is in David's own words :

 

[babelfisch]

You're saying you think it would have made good business sense to charge for Beyond?

After Horizons I think we both know it would not have been a good move for Frontier.

Being penny pinching does not mean you have to ruin your business.

The best business move would be to transform the game into free to play and sell boosters on the online shop.
+100 ly jumprange for the next 10 jumps: 5€
10 in system jumps: 5€
100 materials: 10€
etc.

Braben would be a billionaire by now. But he decided against it, probably because Elite is his baby and he actually wants the best for the game.

 

[bitstorm]

Fact checking the uninformed isn't snidey.

It's true that plenty of people manage it without the snide.

 

[bitstorm]

The best business move would be to transform the game into free to play and sell boosters on the online shop.
+100 ly jumprange for the next 10 jumps: 5€
10 in system jumps: 5€
100 materials: 10€
etc.

Braben would be a billionaire by now. But he decided against it, probably because Elite is his baby and he actually wants the best for the game.

Maybe, I don't agree.
I think you'd lose your core fanbase within a week.

 

[Stigbob]

It's true that plenty of people manage it without the snide.

Do you not think that's a pretty snidey thing to say.

 

[bitstorm]

Do you not think that's a pretty snidey thing to say.

You're going to start calling everything snide now because someone called you out on it?
No I don't think that's snidey, I think you are comparing two different things, fact checking and snide aren't interchangeable, you can fact check and be snidey, you can fact check and not be snidey.
Your statement is pretty obvious and everyone would agree that yes "Fact checking isn't snidey" but plenty of people do manage to fact check without the snide hence my comment : "It's true that plenty of people manage it without the snide."
If you read between the lines it's me saying "sure but you can fact check without the snide".

 

[Red Anders]

Don't forget that the majority that are labelled a White Knight aren't really White Knights. All they did was disagree with someone having a rant or a whinge, nothing more, nothing less.

I remember maybe 18 months ago I was called a shill for the devs in a reply to one post, then about half an hour later accused of relentless negativity or something similar in a reply to another. In truth neither post was particularly extreme, other than in the mind of the person reading and replying to it.

Frankly I stopped giving a toss about anybody's opinion of anything I might have to say online back in the 90s because you're always going to be dealing with people at both extremes of any topic in an online discussion. It's particularly true on gaming forums though because rabid fans and rabid haters are disproportionately represented.

 

[Red Anders]

I've never been a fan of the bbc kids presenters they recruit for community management but I do miss the devs who would be quite honest in their interactions who have been exiled from the forums by Frontier or the toxic elements of the forum.

Yeah I miss Mike too