Dumb delivery mission design

I've been away from Elite for a few months - I got bored of the repetitive and predictable nature of just about everything I was doing in the game - and have just come back to see if much has changed, doesn't seem like much has but my experience highlighted a rather stupid design flaw / lazy coding in the Elite delivery mission type.

I accepted an Elite delivery mission at Colonia, delivery was to a surface station in the same system. Within about 30 seconds this NPC guy Mr Kavanagh tells me the usual thing about wanting my juicy cargo, but I pull away from him easily because I'm in a Python and he's in an Anaconda... until I start to slow down for my destination, then he zooms right up and interdicts me, but fails because an Anaconda can't manouvre for toffee.

I land, I go to hand in my mission cargo, except it's not there in my hold. Slightly bemused and flumoxed, I realise I must have missed a step back at Jacques Station, so I take off again wondering why that pirate was so keen to get his hands on my empty hold. No sooner have I left the planet then there he is again, like clockwork, wanting the contents of my cargo hold... except it makes zero sense as not only have I reached my mission destination and landed safely, my hold is (still) empty - why is he chasing me? I evade his interdiction easily and land back at Jacques.

So, having clicked on the + to load the full cargo into my hold I take off again, sure enough Mr Kavanagh is waiting for me once I go to supercruice, easily evaded again, land at the destination... but again I am frustrated because my cargo hold is empty! Take off, evade Mr Kavanagh, land, and this time load the cargo AND click the extra button to.. load the cargo. Why must I click two buttons to load cargo? This is just unintuitive and poor design, my hold has enough space for the full load, there should at least be some intelligence behind the mission screen or a single button to just accept all of the cargo without having to load it manually.

I take off, easily evade Mr Kavanagh, land at the destination and finally hand in the cargo (which has to be unloaded manually, no simple 'Complete mission' as there used to be). Funnily enough, Mr Kavanagh has now decided that he has other things to do.

This experience has highlighted two things for me - the first is the very dumb way NPCs are designed / coded for this kind of mission. I could accept that maybe pirates would be able to hack the missions bulletin board system and thus know when there's a ship worth boarding, but for the same guy to always come after me even when my hold is empty? Makes zero sense. Another thing to note is that every time he appeared his ship had a different name - same guy, same ship, different ship name.
The second thing is the uninuitive mission cargo loading procedure - one would expect that simply accepting the mission with sufficient free cargo space should be enough (as it used to be originally for this kind of mission), or at least by clicking the + and 'loading' the cargo should also be sufficient, but no - one has to also click the 'load cargo' button (which doesn't actually look like a button).

I am disappointed to see that not much seems to have changed since I last played (I do now remember this being the same then, I had just forgotten the unnecessarily complicated procedure), it doesn't make me want to invest much more time playing the game when there are newer more exciting games coming out. If things like this were refined so that they work more inuitively and with a bit more randomness and depth to the AI and missions, then it might just encourage me to play more.
 
The NPC is probably part of the mission design and doesn't matter if you have the cargo or not. He's there to give you a challenge, easy or not.
 
I've been away from Elite for a few months - I got bored of the repetitive and predictable nature of just about everything I was doing in the game - and have just come back to see if much has changed, doesn't seem like much has but my experience highlighted a rather stupid design flaw / lazy coding in the Elite delivery mission type.

I accepted an Elite delivery mission at Colonia, delivery was to a surface station in the same system. Within about 30 seconds this NPC guy Mr Kavanagh tells me the usual thing about wanting my juicy cargo, but I pull away from him easily because I'm in a Python and he's in an Anaconda... until I start to slow down for my destination, then he zooms right up and interdicts me, but fails because an Anaconda can't manouvre for toffee.

I land, I go to hand in my mission cargo, except it's not there in my hold. Slightly bemused and flumoxed, I realise I must have missed a step back at Jacques Station, so I take off again wondering why that pirate was so keen to get his hands on my empty hold. No sooner have I left the planet then there he is again, like clockwork, wanting the contents of my cargo hold... except it makes zero sense as not only have I reached my mission destination and landed safely, my hold is (still) empty - why is he chasing me? I evade his interdiction easily and land back at Jacques.

So, having clicked on the + to load the full cargo into my hold I take off again, sure enough Mr Kavanagh is waiting for me once I go to supercruice, easily evaded again, land at the destination... but again I am frustrated because my cargo hold is empty! Take off, evade Mr Kavanagh, land, and this time load the cargo AND click the extra button to.. load the cargo. Why must I click two buttons to load cargo? This is just unintuitive and poor design, my hold has enough space for the full load, there should at least be some intelligence behind the mission screen or a single button to just accept all of the cargo without having to load it manually.

I take off, easily evade Mr Kavanagh, land at the destination and finally hand in the cargo (which has to be unloaded manually, no simple 'Complete mission' as there used to be). Funnily enough, Mr Kavanagh has now decided that he has other things to do.

This experience has highlighted two things for me - the first is the very dumb way NPCs are designed / coded for this kind of mission. I could accept that maybe pirates would be able to hack the missions bulletin board system and thus know when there's a ship worth boarding, but for the same guy to always come after me even when my hold is empty? Makes zero sense. Another thing to note is that every time he appeared his ship had a different name - same guy, same ship, different ship name.
The second thing is the uninuitive mission cargo loading procedure - one would expect that simply accepting the mission with sufficient free cargo space should be enough (as it used to be originally for this kind of mission), or at least by clicking the + and 'loading' the cargo should also be sufficient, but no - one has to also click the 'load cargo' button (which doesn't actually look like a button).

I am disappointed to see that not much seems to have changed since I last played (I do now remember this being the same then, I had just forgotten the unnecessarily complicated procedure), it doesn't make me want to invest much more time playing the game when there are newer more exciting games coming out. If things like this were refined so that they work more inuitively and with a bit more randomness and depth to the AI and missions, then it might just encourage me to play more.
I understand what you're saying and I agree that if a little more thought were given, and an ear to feedback and 'whinging' on the forums this kind of stuff could be ruled out...
I still remember the Bandits chasing a Deer in Skyrim shouting "Skyrim's for the Nords" and this was because of the factions system or somesuch! easily rectified with a little time and patience... but they had the 11-11-11 to hit.
 
I would disagree about the loading process. If you’re only doing one mission I can see why you’d like to have it loaded automatically. But I’ve had as many as 12 missions that paid out 14M-20M each. So I like the flexibility of telling the depot how many of each item I want to load based on the systems/stations I have to deliver the various items to.
 
Honestly, like most things in ED, it's perhaps a bit confusing the first time you do it, but then it's straight forward. I suspect most people have left on a delivery mission only to find they hadn't actually loaded the cargo once or twice. I know I have, usually when tired, or something else...

But actually, the cargo depot is one of the better mechanisms that FD have introduced in quite some time. Now I can take attractive cargo missions even if I'm not in the right ship, or if I don't have the space for all of them in one go.

It's our responsibility to make sure that we actually load the cargo, know that we can do the mission, but in most cases FD hold our hands like we're helpless newborns.

As to the NPC, well, since it actually materialized that the mission would be challenged, as soon as the player gets to the target system, the game spawns the NPC to challenge. If we want to make it go away, we should destroy it, then it won't come back. If we don't, it'll keep trying to attack and thwart the mission until the mission is actually completed (or failed). Can't really have it all ways. For some the game's too difficult, for others it's too easy, but for sure NPC's are predictable, and all we need to do is learn how to deal with them. (And once a mission spawns opposition, if it actually does, that opposition always turns up. :) )
 
If you can just evade the interdiction from the NPC it won't have time to recover from FSD cooldown and you'll get to your destination safe and sound. I only engage these "mission-related" NPCs if they are high ranked enough to drop good mats when I kill them... otherwise they are just there to make you waste your time.
 
Mr Kavanagh probably assumed that the delivery ship leaving the depot and flying to the destination actually had the delivery on board and hadn't forgotten to load it. 🥴

You should see what he wrote about you in the NPC's forum 😲
 
The second thing is the uninuitive mission cargo loading procedure - one would expect that simply accepting the mission with sufficient free cargo space should be enough (as it used to be originally for this kind of mission), or at least by clicking the + and 'loading' the cargo should also be sufficient, but no - one has to also click the 'load cargo' button (which doesn't actually look like a button).

To add to this. I find it irritating when loading limpets that I have to hold the "+" until my hold is full. Why can't we have a "fill to capacity" button?
Also ignore the NCP forum. They are a bunch of whiners.
 
None of this excuses the fact that he appeared in a ship with a different name each time, nor that it was always Mr Kavanagh who appeared and not one of the other three who were apparently also after the cargo (or my head).

I stand by my assertion that this is just sloppy design and coding, and it could be so much better with a tiny bit of thought and randomness thrown in. How come no other NPCs tried to hijack my cargo? Maybe because I didn't have any for most of the trips! If they can scan me silently in supercruise then so can the 'mission' enemies, but they don't because of sloppy programming. Challenge? Nope, just annoying and pointless.
 
But actually, the cargo depot is one of the better mechanisms that FD have introduced in quite some time. Now I can take attractive cargo missions even if I'm not in the right ship, or if I don't have the space for all of them in one go.

It's our responsibility to make sure that we actually load the cargo, know that we can do the mission, but in most cases FD hold our hands like we're helpless newborns.

I get that it's a good feature to be able to take as much or as little of the cargo as you want, but how about a simple 'Accept and Load Cargo' button on the mission screen that lights up if I have the available cargo space, it took me about 5 seconds to think of that just now, it would save a heck of a lot of time and messing about for everyone. There can also be a simple 'Accept' button as well.
 
None of this excuses the fact that he appeared in a ship with a different name each time, nor that it was always Mr Kavanagh who appeared and not one of the other three who were apparently also after the cargo (or my head).

I stand by my assertion that this is just sloppy design and coding, and it could be so much better with a tiny bit of thought and randomness thrown in. How come no other NPCs tried to hijack my cargo? Maybe because I didn't have any for most of the trips! If they can scan me silently in supercruise then so can the 'mission' enemies, but they don't because of sloppy programming. Challenge? Nope, just annoying and pointless.

I'm not really making excuses for it, it's simply a consequence of NPC's having no persistence. Once you accept that they have no persistence (and it doesn't seem as though they are likely to any time soon), then you can become much less put out by how they behave.

Mr Kavanagh was one of three NPC 'pirates' generated because you had that particular mission. That's why their name stays the same. The ship type and rank are determined by the rank of the mission, but there's a bit of give there. Always the same ship type, but rank can generally go up or down one level. Each time Mr Kavanagh spawned, he was a brand new NPC, not the same one, hence why the ship name changes, and on many occasions the NPC's rank will be different too.

The reason it was always Mr Kavanagh who spawned, not one of the other two is that they spawn in order, one after the other, and since you didn't destroy Mr Kavanagh that is why he kept respawning (and will continue to do so until the mission is completed / failed or he is destroyed). Had you destroyed him, the second mission generated pirate would have spawned.

Finally, they are programmed to spawn when you arrive in the mission's destination system. They don't scan you for cargo because it is assumed that you have the mission cargo, because the mission is active and you are in the delivery system. It's also why they spawn right on your tail ready to interdict, because they are specific to that mission. Other random pirates might well attack, but they will sometimes spawn some way from you and need to 'chase' you. They are not mission generated, and it's not unheard of to be interdicted by a pirate even though you have no cargo, mission or otherwise. If they do that, they scan you in normal space then fly away (or you can shoot them, because they are wanted).

Like I said, I'm not making excuses for it, and over the years I've been playing this game have made a number of suggestions about how I think it could be improved, but it is what it is. It's not (IMO of course) sloppy or lazy programming, more likely a limitation in how complex or real they can make NPC's.

Oh, and you mention throwing a bit of randomness in? Unfortunately, it's all random, and that's part of the problem. A delivery mission might, or might not be opposed, it's random, and a generic pirate might or might not spawn, it's random. This game has a huge amount of RNG in order to make it work on the scale it does.

Sadly, IMHO, the randomness is in the wrong place. I've long suggested that a mission should either be opposed or not, not might be opposed, and that when they are opposed, it should be different types of ships that attack, not always the same, pretty much the opposite of what we have now. But it doesn't seem like that will ever happen, so I try not to let it wind me up. :)
 
its probably cause I don't do missions? just trade, mine, ex an fight
haven't done missions in years honestly could not tell you last time I checked the mission board
nice to be back in the bubble where they are an option mind you
(obviously just referring to npc interdictions only)
 
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cant say I have ever been interdicted with 0 cargo in my hold in over 5 years of play
very odd?

Obviously, if you have an active mission that has triggered incoming enemies, they will interdict (and very probably attack also) even if you've forgotten the cargo.

Random interdictions (i.e. nothing to do with any missions) despite the fact you have no cargo are certainly infrequent, but they do happen. It happened to me only a few days ago returning to my home system. A random pirate interdicted, initially I assumed it was system authority doing a random pull over, but no, it was a wanted pirate. When it realized I had no cargo it retracted hardpoints and was going to jump away. I destroyed it instead.
 
I must be lucky it may have happened i just don't remember...……………………………...
but yea when I did do missions years ago I was interdicted all the time
 
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