New Limpet Module Idea

[Red Zephyr]

Limpet ideas are making the rounds again, and I believe I have one that is novel. So, my suggestion to revamp the whole limpet game, stop me if you've heard this one:

Model limpet controllers after SLF Hangars

--Each module will contain limpet slots for selecting limpet types. For example, a 5A may have three slots, which means I could plug in a prospector and two collectors.
--Each module has an ammo count, and limpets will be reprinted as they are deployed (destroyed for collector limpets)
--Each module can be refilled by synthesis.
--Limpets, once deployed, cannot be reclaimed into your ship.

Each module can be mapped to a trigger in a fire group, as they are now. Firing will release all of the limpets in the module fired.
Example: My 5A from earlier, when I click, will fire a prospector at my target while also releasing two collectors that will wait. The prospector will immediately reprint, and my next click will fire another one, while the two collectors are already deployed.

I think this could have a few advantages. Forgetting to buy limpets will no longer be a concern. More limpet variety on fewer modules, but miners will still want more modules for more limpets. Pirating a mining ship means you can always have your prey dumping the good stuff instead of spare limpets.

Thoughts?

 

[M00ka]

Umm okay, just a few questions:

1. Why bother with an ammo count or synthesis if replacement limpets are automatically printed when deployed?
2. How will the system know that after you have fired a prospector and two collectors, the next one will be a prospector?
3. So lets say you take a 7A limpet controller that can have three different modes, for example prospector, collector and repair. But you don't need repair so how do you tell the controller that you only want prospectors one at a time, and the rest collectors?

Apart from that, not a bad idea, better than most that get posted

 

[Red Zephyr]

Umm okay, just a few questions:

1. Why bother with an ammo count or synthesis if replacement limpets are automatically printed when deployed?
2. How will the system know that after you have fired a prospector and two collectors, the next one will be a prospector?
3. So lets say you take a 7A limpet controller that can have three different modes, for example prospector, collector and repair. But you don't need repair so how do you tell the controller that you only want prospectors one at a time, and the rest collectors?

Apart from that, not a bad idea, better than most that get posted

Cheers!

1) Ammo count would be the number of reprints you get.
2) same way a fighter hangar knows which fighter to print. Each plugin within the module will track whether it needs a reprint. Collectors reprint when destroyed, like a fighter, all others reprint when fired.
3) In your example with three slots, I would suggest that the repair limpet should occupy a separate controller module (with one slot, say, or a two-slot paired with a fuel limpet) and would be wasted when paired with mining gear.

My purpose was not to try and make one controller module do everything, but to make them a little more efficient and streamlined without eliminating the need to take multiple modules for some tasks.

Another clarification on ammo: while fighter hangars have an ammo count per fighter slot, I think limpet modules should have a shared pool. I'm open to criticism though.

 

[Red Zephyr]

Just as a quick example for limpet ammo, let's say a 5A controller has 64 "ammo."

You will get a total of 64 limpets out of it. The ammo count will decrease each time a limpet is printed. A reprint will be made as a slot is empties, exactly like a fighter hanger.
For a prospector, fuel, repair, or hatchbreaker limpet a reprint will be made when one is fired. A collector limpet will be made when one is destroyed.

Tentatively, I'm thinking the following for modules:

Spoiler: Limpet Controllers

1A, 1 limpet plugin, 4 ammo
3A, 2 limpet plugins, 16 ammo
5A, 3 limpet plugins, 64 ammo
7A, 4 limpet plugins, 256 ammo

I don't think B, C, D, E modules are necessary, but they could modify the ammo count and integrity if they must be preserved.

 

[Atol]

What ship are you trying to add a Repair module to? So you can have a Mini Cooper that can hold a cord of wood.

 

[Red Zephyr]

What ship are you trying to add a Repair module to? So you can have a Mini Cooper that can hold a cord of wood.

Uh, what?

 

[Atol]

Uh, what?

Please read your Suggestion and understand what you are trying to do. Smaller ships Can't do it all. why? Because they are small ships. It like a buyer asking the Dealer hay can this mini Cooper hold a cord of wood. Knowing space matters it. Or this guy and his family trying to put a couch in his car and don't grasp small car and a love seat don't mix.

 

[Red Zephyr]

I suggest you read the post and read out of it more than you read into it. This change wouldn't make small ships "do it all." Far from it. Nor is anyone asking for that.

It would benefit small explorers, maybe, but you won't have any powerhouse smalls taking on your corvette any more than you do now. Don't worry.

 

[Atol]

I suggest you read the post and read out of it more than you read into it. This change wouldn't make small ships "do it all." Far from it.

It would benefit small explorers, maybe, but you won't have any powerhouse smalls taking on your corvette any more than you do now. Don't worry.

Let break your idea down.

Limpet ideas are making the rounds again, and I believe I have one that is novel. So, my suggestion to revamp the whole limpet game, stop me if you've heard this one:

Model limpet controllers after SLF Hangars

--Each module will contain limpet slots for selecting limpet types. For example, a 5A may have three slots, which means I could plug in a prospector and two collectors.

Which frees up space for ships. Which eliminates the need for you to use your brain when you are building a ship.

--Each module has an ammo count, and limpets will be reprinted as they are deployed (destroyed for collector limpets)

Another idea of yours of you don't have to use your brain to building a ship. When Cargo and controllers work well right now. See here what you are ignoring. Part of the game is understanding ships can't do it all. Kinda like that dude asking the Dealer if the mini cooper can hold a cord of wood. Which logic would of answer that question with a resounding NO. Or that Family trying to shove that Love seat into car.

--Limpets no longer expire over time, but can be destroyed by other usual means

Another I don't have to think to play the game idea. Part of the fun managing your ship and guess how many Limpets you need for mining or combat. Oh please note. If you practice really well. You don't need collectors or Limpets to collect Minerals.

Here what you and other people ignore. With all the different modules is to not have Everything shove into a ship. That including Collectors and Limpets. It not like World of Warcraft when a NPC can hold more than Superman can lift.

 

[Red Zephyr]

It must really burn you that FDev added new optional slots on all ships when they introduced the new explorer modules and cruise assist. Requiring more modules doesn't rack the brain at all.

The point is this: limpets and controllers are one of the clunkiest aspects of the game currently. We often see suggestion posts calling for a "master controller" that will fit all limpets into one module.

I wanted to propose an idea that will partially consolidate the modules, but still necessitate multiple controllers for certain tasks. This hardly lets any ship do "everything," as you put it rather obtusely.

I believe my proposal does not make ship outfitting any less purposeful an exercise, and may actually open up a few new possibilities for viable builds.

Regarding limpets not expiring over time, I was on the fence about it as I wrote it. That's probably not a good idea.

 

[MK Regular]

Which frees up space for ships. Which eliminates the need for you to use your brain when you are building a ship.

Conversely, I would argue that increasing the number of options available to players would actually make them think more not less.

Let's use the example OP gave in post you quoted. In the current system, if I want 1 prospector limpet and 2 collector limpets, I mount a size 1 prospector and a size 3 collector OR a size 1 prospector and two size 1 collectors. Essentially, there are 2 options that result in the basic question of "do I want to sacrifice a bit of capacity or do I want to sacrifice an extra slot?" which in most cases becomes "do I want to sacrifice a bit of capacity or do I want to sacrifice an extra slot and even more capacity?" due to how the ships' module slots are laid out.

If something like the system OP suggested was used instead, there would now be additional options. As such, the question would become "how much capacity am I willing to sacrifice for an extra slot?" and "how many slots am I willing to sacrifice to increase capacity?". More open-ended questions means more thinking is involved, which requires players to engage their brains a little bit more.

Another idea of yours of you don't have to use your brain to building a ship. When Cargo and controllers work well right now. See here what you are ignoring. Part of the game is understanding ships can't do it all. Kinda like that dude asking the Dealer if the mini cooper can hold a cord of wood. Which logic would of answer that question with a resounding NO. Or that Family trying to shove that Love seat into car.

Apples and oranges. Logic would dictate that you can't put a couch or cord of wood into a Mini, but the same does not hold true with our ships. Sure, a size 1 limpet controller might not have the space to store extra limpets that can be reprinted, but size 3, 5 and 7 limpet controllers certainly would (what is that 160 tons of 7B limpet controller used for anyways?).

Ships in ED will never be able to do everything with the same build. Sure, you might be able to build a ship that can do many things, but the ship won't be very good at it. I don't see how consolidating limpet controllers would suddenly make ships capable of doing a wide variety of tasks (some of which require ship builds that are polar opposites of each other) more effectively than something like a purpose-built Cobra or Viper. If you feel I'm wrong, I challenge you to theorycraft a multi-role Anaconda that can do literally everything using the limpet controller system proposed by OP.

Another I don't have to think to play the game idea. Part of the fun managing your ship and guess how many Limpets you need for mining or combat. Oh please note. If you practice really well. You don't need collectors or Limpets to collect Minerals.

What some people see as fun other people see as tedious. I figured out how many limpets I needed for mining after about 5 runs (I typically take about 1/3 of my maximum cargo capacity) after which the "fun" feature became a mildly annoying feature due to it being hidden behind several menus and needing to be completed every time I decided to go mining.

I have no issue with limpet expiring over time, but I'm not exactly a fan of the current limpet resupply method.

Here what you and other people ignore. With all the different modules is to not have Everything shove into a ship. That including Collectors and Limpets. It not like World of Warcraft when a NPC can hold more than Superman can lift.

There are currently 25 types of optional internal modules, not counting fuel tanks (each ship already has one) and the various module / hull / shield reinforcement packages. What OP is proposing would reduce that number to 18. Assuming that a player manages to get a limpet controller that can perform every function (it would take at least 2 controllers in reality), that player would not be able to mount one of every module in their ship. Assuming that they did manage to accomplish such a feat, they now have a ship with some combination of weak shields, poor jump range, low cargo capacity, low passenger capacity, an undersized fuel scoop, and so on such that they would likely be better off owning a fleet of less expensive ships that could collectively perform all of the same tasks, but more efficiently.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Limpet ideas are making the rounds again, and I believe I have one that is novel. So, my suggestion to revamp the whole limpet game, stop me if you've heard this one:

Model limpet controllers after SLF Hangars

--Each module will contain limpet slots for selecting limpet types. For example, a 5A may have three slots, which means I could plug in a prospector and two collectors.
--Each module has an ammo count, and limpets will be reprinted as they are deployed (destroyed for collector limpets)
--Each module can be refilled by synthesis.
--Limpets, once deployed, cannot be reclaimed into your ship.

Each module can be mapped to a trigger in a fire group, as they are now. Firing will release all of the limpets in the module fired.
Example: My 5A from earlier, when I click, will fire a prospector at my target while also releasing two collectors that will wait. The prospector will immediately reprint, and my next click will fire another one, while the two collectors are already deployed.

I think this could have a few advantages. Forgetting to buy limpets will no longer be a concern. More limpet variety on fewer modules, but miners will still want more modules for more limpets. Pirating a mining ship means you can always have your prey dumping the good stuff instead of spare limpets.

Thoughts?

I would expect all limpet controllers you have inserted into your limpet modules to show up independently in the fire groups config. This would allow us, just like today, to select to only fire one limpet of a specific type, even if I have more than one such limpet controllers fitted.

I would expect the new slotted limpet controllers, to have similar stats regarding how long a limpet can be active and range as the current ones.
And following this, then the number of slots would be equal to how many limpets the current limpet controllers can control.

Size 1 - 1 slot/1 limpet
Size 3 - 2 slots/2 limpets
Size 5 - 3 slots/3 limpets
Size 7 - 4 slots/4 limpets

So this would not change how many limpets we can controll, but allow players to have some more options on what kind of limpet controllers to fit to their limpet modules, and the max number of limpets would still be the same.




I wonder if this is not the what FDev have hinted about what they would like todo with the limpet controllers, they have atleast acknowledged that the current system needs to be changed..

 

[Red Zephyr]

I would expect all limpet controllers you have inserted into your limpet modules to show up independently in the fire groups config. This would allow us, just like today, to select to only fire one limpet of a specific type, even if I have more than one such limpet controllers fitted.

That was my initial leaning too. I had posted that kind of configuration as a reply to other threads about limpet redesigns.

The reason I'm now switched to having the module set to a fire group as a whole is that I think it better preserves some balance with the cargo space no longer being needed for most limpet types. Plus it might be easier to implement for FDev(?).

What would I use? Prospecter + 2 Collectors, repair + decontamination, or repair + fuel.

What would be prevented by my proposal but useable in your alteration would be the recon + (other). If in a 5A you had recon + hatchbreaker + collector, for example.

Either way I think is a clean improvement over current limpets, but I prefer the single trigger module just a little bit.

Did FDev say they would redesign limpets?

 

[Exeider]

Im gonna just drop this right here.


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ontrol-system-and-drone-system-revamp.510640/

 

[Lestat]

I stick with my post on Exeider topic. You know we already got an extra module slot. So like my Mining Python, I could add anything of my choosing without affecting my current build. So no on the idea.

 

[Red Zephyr]

I stick with my post on Exeider topic. You know we already got an extra module slot. So like my Mining Python, I could add anything of my choosing without affecting my current build. So no on the idea.

Although new builds would result, that's not the primary goal of this or any proposal on limpets. Limpets as they function now are just clunky. There are seven different limpet modules, and then a cargo rack is needed for limpets. How often are research or recon limpets even used? Consolidating things a little is not a bad thing.

Recon limpets could probably be done away with altogether, and that function could be moved to the data link scanner available on every ship.

 

[MK Regular]

I stick with my post on Exeider topic. You know we already got an extra module slot. So like my Mining Python, I could add anything of my choosing without affecting my current build. So no on the idea.

My take is that consolidating limpets is less about making ships more capable than improving limpets from their current implementation where they have functionality buried behind several layers of menus (limpet resupply) and make very little sense (a 7A collector limpet controller is 64 times heavier than a 1A, but only gets an extra 3 limpets to control and 840m of additional range) among other things. If I'm going to install a size 7 limpet controller I want to get my money's worth out of it, not the "4 size 1 controllers but slightly better" that we have now.

If consolidating limpets just so happens to allow ships to be more survivable and/or capable I have no issue with it since the improvements would largely go to PvE builds and would help close the gap between PvE and PvP builds.

Although new builds would result, that's not the primary goal of this or any proposal on limpets. Limpets as they function now are just clunky. There are seven different limpet modules, and then a cargo rack is needed for limpets. How often are research or recon limpets even used? Consolidating things a little is not a bad thing.

Recon limpets could probably be done away with altogether, and that function could be moved to the data link scanner available on every ship.

There are actually 8 different types of limpet controllers, but that just makes the situation worse.

 

[Fullo111]

How many more lives will be lost by those stranded pilots out in the black?
If not for us, do it for them.
It'd be nice to assign at least one controller to refuel and occasionally help out that NPC for a little rep or influence increase. Has anyone ever done a purely search and rescue build and stuck it out? No, me neither.
It does open up the game to other roles even if minor.

 

[Qualityoflife]

How about a limpet where different modules where when obtained are loaded in like a .38 revolver each chamber like added function...destructible but can be engineered to be more resistant to damage. Also with a manual control option and camera view from limpet?
....problem solved...next