When is VOID OPAL nerf coming?

Odd that - I played it... The Krait gave you more cargo space, the FDL, as in the current game was a fighter, both could be bought - unlike the current game the player could only own a single ship...

I don't suppose you have noticed the wire-frame ships in the bobblehead range - original from elite :)

I don't think you are talking about the original, I only had a Cobra MKIII.
 
Must of been some unofficial version.
All 8-bit & 16-bit ELITEs were essentially the same.
I err - the ships were encountered in-game, along with a handful of others - the Cobra III being 'upgraded' to be proficient in coping with pirates etc.
Sorry - I had to sit and think for a while :)
(I think the failure on my part was that they were the ships I liked most!)
 
Well, they could be burning all of their credits on donations, leaving themselves constantly poor and unable to afford the Cutter in some sort of Monkey's Paw situation.

It's not like mining will just disappear, it's just going to be less insanely profitable.

Good point - I stopped being surprised at what passes for logic in some player's minds years ago.

I just did a quick calculation - even at the normal unboosted galactic average price of around 87k credits, 200 tons of painite will sell for around 17.5m credits. You can mine 200 tons in a double hotspot in about an hour and double hotspots themselves aren't getting any kind of change in this update.

17.5m per hour stacks up favourably against any rate of earning that Frontier haven't already deemed to be unintended or an exploit and nerfed. Within the context of the largest ship in the game costing around 200m credits for a stock model, it also seems to be reasonable by any standard.

Of course that won't help the void opal crew (who seem to think that void opals are the only mineable commodity in the game) because they take longer to mine but maybe one or two of them will peer outside the youtube 'go there > do that' bubble and actually discover something about the game in the process.
 
Funny, I thought you old salts consider anyone that hasn't been playing since Beta a 'new' player?
Lol. I could have chosen to take that as salty but I think I prefer dry sense of humour instead. Bit like the village I am from. My mum Moved in in 1974 but she still feels like one of those out of towners moving in stealing all the houses ;)
 
That's all true but given that a player needs to have reached Duke rank with the Empire to buy a cutter to begin with, they would have had to make a hardcore effort not to have earned the rest of those credits whilst doing it. By the time I hit the rank to buy either of the top-tier rank locked ships I wasn't even checking my credit balance any more and that was way before the current mining gold rush.
You're forgetting that the payouts for data transport missions and boom material transport missions was significantly reduced along the way.

When I finished Duke, I had 300 million, The estimated cost of my cutter, without discount, was ~690 million. Estimated rebuy was, also without discount, ~34 million.

I'm not complaining. I'm just pointing out to you that what ever was going on when you were earning the rank, wasn't going on when I was. Did I do it at lower ranks and so I made less money? Yep. But I definitely read about nerfs that had happened, so that had to figure into it as well.

You folks seem to think making money is just a matter of snapping your fingers... I'll agree to an extent, but only with experience in the game. Watching videos only goes so far and I'd rather learn by doing.

We learn more from our mistakes than our successes.
 
Wasn't what I said. Over compensating was in reference to money provided for an action being far in excess of the effort needed to acquire it, not the meaning of the term you are using. Whether or not people with tens of billions are bad at the game will vary... Though i'm willing to bet a large portion didn't acquire it by doing anything that required any use of skill or thought beyond watching the youtube video that told them how to do it. either way, having to defend it from being stolen by pirates would sepate those who fall into that group and force them to reconsider re-purchasing one.
It just sounds like you resent people with a lot of credits and you're just generalizing. Though, interesting that you said "wasn't what I said" and then immediately turned around to again paint players with lots of credits as people with no skill.

You could say it's a bad idea...but you'd be wrong.
I would be correct. There are too many reasons to even get into but let's start with the simplest: being able to just obtain a fleet carrier through NO effort whatsoever. Being able to just "give" fleet carriers to others. The entirely undefined system through which this would be handled. The idea that somebody could steal a FC containing all of somebody else's ships because they went to the bathroom.

Applying just a little tiny bit of thought makes that idea fall to pieces.
 
Though I'm still thankful we didn't got this nonsensical optional quick dock button (a big disappointment in my eyes) that circumvented all potential difficulties and risks, like in some(?) of the later 16 bit versions (I'm sure it was on Atari, not sure about Amiga or Acorn). Maybe a necessary bow to today's casual players...
I'd rather make out with a cheese grater than dock the Type-9.
 
The use for "that much money" is to never have to think about money. Something gets released, I buy it. I was guessing fleet carriers would be 10 bil for base, then 2-6 bil for the specialty. But I seriously doubt they will cost that much now because of the vast number of lazy folks that won't put in the time to get that much bank.
Besides, you don't get to decide how much is too much.
Mining is fun, and the fact that there was an appropriate reward for time and effort spent mining made it not a grind.

The thing I call a nerf is when a change to the game results in something being not as good, or not as profitable. If you read and understood, what I wrote was "intended or unintended". They may not "intend" to nerf, but the changes made break / result in there being no demand, or demand so rare as to make it no longer profitable, etc... Look at what happened during the patches over the last year and a half and I rest my case.

My hope is that fleet carriers are 10's of billions to buy, so I can sit back and wait for the tear posts of how they are too much and there is no way to get that kind of cash. THEN, "that much money" that I have, I will just go and buy one (two if they allowed it) just because I could.
FD have been nerfing the value of credits since launch then ;). Look I can agree with you that for those who don't want to think about credits then making them meaningless is a good thing

But can you also concede that those who DO want an economy in the game and who want credits to mean something may not like the current meta?

Neither view is right but if we can all at least admit that what we want out of the the game is different, but that we all have a point then all we can do is pass on our views to FD and see what they can do.
A poster above made an interesting observation. Apparently in the original game it was possible to go from a base.rated.cobra to a kitted out one in 6 hrs (way way faster than I managed it). His conclusion proved to me you can use any statistics you want to make your point... Because I would actually agree that is not that terrible.

If I was to use my Kickstarter pledge to start with a cobra then 6 hrs to spec it out is not that bad..(assuming that is using every trick in the book)... But we have 30 odd other ships now in the mix and we DONT generally start in the cobra any more ;)
 
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I'm glad you lot weren't about a few minutes ago when I landed my FDL (in VR) using my new HOTAS - on a pad that has a huge beam above it... More practise in pancake needed yet, it was probably the biggest dog's dinner I've made of landing since the n00b days :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
The odd part is what time does to our memories. I also was questioning your former statement where you said you were flying the Krait. But then I also was so sure I didn't start with the Cobra Mk3 (I thought it was the Mk1) but after browsing some old pages including the original manual (that I never had back in the days ) I had to realize I obviously was wrong: Only the Cobra Mk3 was playable and nothing else.
...
It is odd, I know anacondas were in the game, and quite a few other ships, but the only ones that stayed in my mind for 30-odd years were the Krait and FDL, hence the confusion, it was only 'winding back the clock' that I realised my memory was the lair so admitted the error :)

Now I'll have to play the original as it is 'free' from Frontier... If I can find the time!
 
Not so much what we folks are thinking but rather what you are impressively demonstrating - if you really started playing in August 2019 like your forum join date would suggest. ;)
1700 hours of game play boss. Doing a large variety of things. Why am I still laser mining?

It kills 3 birds with 1 stone.

1) I gain g1 and g2 engineering mats. The more often i go, the more I get to trade up or 'down' at a 6-1 'loss', but between that and spending time picking up manufactured mats, I can always g3 when I want to.
2) I had to restart the game once because I didn't have enough rebuy, darned if I'm willing to do that again. So the cha-ching is deeply satisfying and keeps me from getting nervous.
3) Why not? I'm well practiced at it, but it took game time to get good at it and it's a low stress way to burn time.

Since I am actually new to the game, I know I didn't just snap my fingers and the coins rolled in. That's disingenuous at best.
 
What happened? Let me guess... you hit that beam (never dared that to be honest, so I have no idea what would happen then) and station control was not amused? ;)
And what was the issue, your new HOTAS, VR or FA Off?
I've just replaced my (broken) X52 with an X56, so thrusters are now on a tiny joystick - and I haven't quite got accurate on up/down/left/right... I bounced the back end of the FDL off the beam a little bit, so went off course... I did correctl it by pointing my nose straight down, but the throttle is still very stiff... It wasn't elegant 😿

I did finally get landed on the pad, VR should have made it easier, but the comedy of errors because of unfamiliar controls was hilarious!
ETA: I put FA-on after the beam flipped me a little ;)
 
1700 hours of game play boss.
....
Since I am actually new to the game
There seems to be a disconnect in logic, here.

Speaking of which, you seem to have no problem saying that others snap their fingers and make money appear, but appear pretty offended that the same accusation could possibly be turned on you.
 
^^ And this is the big, fat issue of mining being so imbalanced. Everything starts to become costed against a singular, excessively large income source activity, rather than the outputs of standard gameplay

Agreed. I'm all for an more realistic economy, I'd love to see the game do much more in this area.

As for mining, well, I haven't done a mining mission since 3.4 dropped. Why mine 40 tons for 8M CR when 8 tons of LTDs will get me 9.6M? Those missions right now are wasted space on the mission board. Personally I'd reduce the chances of core mining rocks inside the bubble and increase the chances outside, in order to encourage deep space mining.
 
1700 hours of game play boss. Doing a large variety of things. Why am I still laser mining?

It kills 3 birds with 1 stone.

1) I gain g1 and g2 engineering mats. The more often i go, the more I get to trade up or 'down' at a 6-1 'loss', but between that and spending time picking up manufactured mats, I can always g3 when I want to.
2) I had to restart the game once because I didn't have enough rebuy, darned if I'm willing to do that again. So the cha-ching is deeply satisfying and keeps me from getting nervous.
3) Why not? I'm well practiced at it, but it took game time to get good at it and it's a low stress way to burn time.

Since I am actually new to the game, I know I didn't just snap my fingers and the coins rolled in. That's disingenuous at best.
Mining mats is my go-to relax method. No one bugs you if you have only limpets for cargo.
 
You're forgetting that the payouts for data transport missions and boom material transport missions was significantly reduced along the way.

When I finished Duke, I had 300 million, The estimated cost of my cutter, without discount, was ~690 million. Estimated rebuy was, also without discount, ~34 million.

I'm not complaining. I'm just pointing out to you that what ever was going on when you were earning the rank, wasn't going on when I was. Did I do it at lower ranks and so I made less money? Yep. But I definitely read about nerfs that had happened, so that had to figure into it as well.

You folks seem to think making money is just a matter of snapping your fingers... I'll agree to an extent, but only with experience in the game. Watching videos only goes so far and I'd rather learn by doing.

We learn more from our mistakes than our successes.

Your last line, I agree with completely.

As for what was going on whilst I was earning the ranks though, well all sorts of madness really. We've had quite a few nerfs of short-lived gold rushes in the past, all of which were things that FDev clearly never intended to represent the earning level available to players which is why they were nerfed to begin with.

None of those would give you the answer to what was different in my case though, because although I certainly sampled a couple of them, specifically Robigo smuggling (which involved a 800+LY round trip with cargo whilst being pursued by anything up to 10 or more separate npc pirates for the entire journey, so hardly noob territory) and long distance passenger missions (which involved doing passenger runs to stations almost as distant from the star as Hutton Orbital, i.e. takes about an hour to fly there) I never tore the Arxe out of any of them precisely because I had no interest in trying to win the game in a fortnight. Disregarding exploits and unintended consequences, credits fall into your hold these days compared to at any point since I started playing. Really.

The reason I had the credits to not worry about the cost of a Cutter is that it was over a year after I started playing that I earned the Empire rank for one, because I didn't immediately try to grind that rank from day one to the exclusion of anything else. I earned the rank and the credits by just playing the game, doing whatever activity took my fancy. I just didn't try to do it all in three weeks.

That's the point really I guess - when I play games I usually want to have the experience that the game designers intended and it's clear as day that they do not intend for people to be earning a billion credits over a weekend and jumping into top tier ships after a couple of weeks. Any personal value judgement I (or any other player) might make about the topic is ultimately irrelevant, because it's not me that gets to decide what's reasonable and what isn't - it's the game designers. The fact that they have stomped on every single high-credit exploit, unintended consequence or whatever other non-pejorative term you care to use indicates pretty clearly that these are not things that are in their design for the game and that's why I'm fine with it. David Braben himself has said that his vision for the game is one where players do a bit of everything and that he can't really engage with the mentality of people who just grind out the same thing over and over again.

If people want to play the game like a race, I can't stop them. FDev can though and they've been consistent in trying to do that since the day I started playing. It shouldn't be a surprise to anybody by now.

Fun fact: As I've already said I own a Cutter, Corvettte and three Anacondas. Out of those, one Anaconda is a dedicated miner that I've owned for ages but hardly use because I hate flying the lumbering beast around asteroid fields. One is a heavily engineered exploration ship with a 75LY jump range which I have spent a decent proportion of my game time in, mainly because when you're heading 40,000 LY or more outside the bubble, spending a lot of time in a ship kind of comes with the deal. I last flew the Cutter (total cost around 1.5 billion) over a year ago and the Corvette was about the same time. I've spent at least 75% of my time in the bubble flying a Python - cost 55m stock and about 350m fully A-rated - and still do now, with my assets of over 6.5 billion and 1.7 billion cash. Having that kind of money doesn't make the gameplay any different. There's no in-game activity that you can't do in a Cobra Mk3, or a Keelback if you want to fly a SLF.


I know people think fleet carriers will be a massive cash sink. I'd be amazed if the stock cost is more than about 750m credits but I'm hoping that equipping one will increase that significantly precisely because it will give me a reason to actually care about making credits again. I still think a lot of people that have spent ages grinding out billions from mining are going to be in for a shock though because historically FDev don't gate content with credits to begin with. Carriers are almost certain to use novel materials for fuel and possibly for other aspects of their operation and the scarcity of those will be how carriers are gated so that owning and using one is non-trivial.

Obviously there will be yet another outcry about that when they're released, followed by someone discovering an exploit to get around it because that's what always happens :D
 
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I'd rather make out with a cheese grater than dock the Type-9.

I have docking computers (standard ones) on exactly two ships, my exploration Anaconda and my T-9. The Anaconda is because after three months or more not having to dock at all, I'm not losing all my exploration data from derping it into the slot. The T-9 has one because I only really use it for short, repetitive trade runs and although it's one of the easiest large ships to dock in the game (slap bang in the middle of the slot every time) flying it 7km from where I drop out of SC to my docking pad 9 or 10 times in an hour makes me want to strangle puppies 😁

1700 hours of game play boss. Doing a large variety of things. Why am I still laser mining?

It kills 3 birds with 1 stone.

1) I gain g1 and g2 engineering mats. The more often i go, the more I get to trade up or 'down' at a 6-1 'loss', but between that and spending time picking up manufactured mats, I can always g3 when I want to.
2) I had to restart the game once because I didn't have enough rebuy, darned if I'm willing to do that again. So the cha-ching is deeply satisfying and keeps me from getting nervous.
3) Why not? I'm well practiced at it, but it took game time to get good at it and it's a low stress way to burn time.

Agree with you on all that by the way. I've never understood the obsession with core mining, sure blowing stuff up is fun but laser mining is quicker, easier, chilled out as far as gaming goes and ultimately earns you broadly the same amount, plus as you say I almost never have to gather raw materials. I had to do a few 100% boosted jumps to cross a very sparse area of space on my current exploration trip - checked my synthesis menu to see how many I had the mats for and was like 'oh 150, yeah that should do it' lol
 
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It just sounds like you resent people with a lot of credits and you're just generalizing. Though, interesting that you said "wasn't what I said" and then immediately turned around to again paint players with lots of credits as people with no skill.

The players who got their credits and aren't just youtube get-rich-quick followers wouldn't have anything to worry about and aren't who i'm talking about... and are absolutely a minority amongst the billionaires in the game. It's not me that is painting this picture. It's anyone with eyes who have read this forum and seen maybe a tiny bit of youtube videos can see that the ease of gaining tons of credits favors activities that require no skill and because people are in general lazy ...the vast majority of people who have acquired billionaire level of wealth went that route to get there.

They're gross generalizations, but they're based in solid reality. Most players are going to pick the easiest way to make the most money.

I would be correct. There are too many reasons to even get into but let's start with the simplest: being able to just obtain a fleet carrier through NO effort whatsoever. Being able to just "give" fleet carriers to others. The entirely undefined system through which this would be handled. The idea that somebody could steal a FC containing all of somebody else's ships because they went to the bathroom.

Applying just a little tiny bit of thought makes that idea fall to pieces.

Good. I want them to lose their entire fleet while going afk while leaving the game on (it's not like their fleet carrier would stay in-game for anyone to instance with while being logged off). That level of risk and chaos is what would force fdev to make them even harder to acquire, and would make the legal ramifications of having a stolen one even more dangerous. It would make re-thinking credits and their infinite supply a priority if players have so much money and can make so much more so easily that they dont care about just giving away carriers to others.

The idea that credits == effort is laughable. Even 10 billion credits... it means nothing and is worth nothing except that you spent a week repeating the same mining run over and over .... Why would that be a good measure of being given a reward you apparently really value like a fleet carrier? It's not. It's barely a barrier at all anymore. So if credits are the only barrier you want to see then you might as well not have any and just let people steal them....as that would actually add something interesting to the game, where as just a credit wall will not.

I would rather see fleet carries managed by community crafting based around a player based economy of ever increasingly complex parts that need to be crafted together and transported to specific stations placed throughout the bubble. With the base raw materials being the current simple unlimited random supply (so we're not building a whole new and better game) but all of the intermediate parts are finite and totally player created and consumed. Allowing entire player based economic mechanics to emerge, giving importance to squadrons and working together and apart and hijacking parts (for those players with a spine who transport the items in open) from opposing squads ... where building a fleet carrier would take months for an individual , and shorter amounts of time for a larger group to help someone build one.

edit: bonus, it would buy fdev more time to debug the carriers themselves by first introducing only the aspect of crafting the parts to make it. The build process can be made so long that it would be inconceivable for anyone (even in a group) to have crafted enough of the parts to actually build one in a couple months.
Now with that level of effort needed to build one, I would say theft can be left out .
 
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I never tore the Arxe out of any of them precisely because I had no interest in trying to win the game in a fortnight.

So here's what I don't get. Why do the anti-money people think getting enough cash to buy whatever you want is "winning" the game? From my perspective, that's the exact point when you actually get to START playing. You can finally tinker with the incredibly deep ship customization to your hearts content. You can focus on the BGS without having to worry about what missions or systems or activities pay the most. You can engage in PvP and actually up your fighting skill without having to stress about rebuys.

Having cash unlocks the full potential of the game, and its dumb to lock that potential behind a series of torturously repetitive tasks.

I made my money back in the good old days of Quince passenger missions, so this while mining thing doesnt affect me personally, but I really feel for the folks hurt by it.
 
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