Newcomer / Intro Trouble completing Take Down Known Pirate missions

[Simbul]

Picked up the game for the new year, and having a blast just hanging around solo play! Starting to get a feel for the basic flight & game strategies.

I am frequently having trouble completing the "Take Down Known Pirate" flavor of combat missions though. I will frameshift into the system, find the target, and end up getting the target ship down to about 30-50% armor remaining. Then the target hits their afterburn and my ship can't close the distance to finish the job. When they get some kilometers away, I get a warning saying something like "frameshift detected." Before I can get within weapons range of the target, the ship disappears and leaves a little wake marker where they jumped out from. First time this happened, I didn't have a wake scanner. Oof, embarassing for this contract killer.

So I went out and got a wake scanner. Did a few more missions until this happened again. Scanned the wake. It points to a nearby system. So I frameshift to that system. As far as I can tell the target isn't here. No target at the main star, and FSS yields nothing. So I jump back to the original target system. Sure enough my target is right there hanging around the main star. Not even in combat mode; just floating around like I didn't just nearly shoot their ship to ribbons. What irritated me was that the target came back with full shields and armor! What?! Wish I could refuel, restock, and repair my ship just by frameshifting out of a system. Then cycle repeats. I re-engage & get the target back down to low armor, then they afterburn and frameshift out again. I jump around and find them again with full shields & armor. Ugh.

1. Is there some game mechanic that would let me prevent the target ship from frameshifting out? I saw an FSD Interdictor, but the tutorials I saw make it seem like that's for pulling ships out of super-cruise, not for corraling ships frameshifting to other systems.

2. Do I need to upgrade my ship/loadout so that I can take a ship from full armor down to dust before they even get a chance to put up distance? Or am I too overloaded and need to get my ship's speed up so that they can't put out distance?

3. How you all completing these early combat missions without having a decked out Anaconda? I upgraded my free ship to the Eagle, and am running two 1E gimbal'd beam lasers and one 1G gimbal'd multi-cannon. These are the biggest guns I've been able to find so far. I suppose I could swap out the multi-cannon for a missile launcher, but I wasn't super impressed with the damage I got from testing missiles out.

Maybe I should just stick to shuffling Biowaste between systems.

 

[Dommarraa]

Hey, welcome!

1. That module is for dragging them out of super cruise. There are some advanced weapons that can stop them jumping, but that's waaaaay in the future. I don't have them.

2/3 looks like you have a pretty decent load out. Maybe swap one of the beams for another multi canon, but that's debatable. While you certainly don't need a Conda, maybe an eagle is a little lightweight for assassination.
Have you tried targeting their powerplant ? (there are buttons for that). That's a good way of getting them to pop before they run out of hull

 

[Eliza]

Welcome in the Black, Commander!

regarding 1: get familiar with "sub-targeting" modules. Target the FSD of your opponent directly. After his shields drop you will easily destroying his FSD and preventing him to jump. After that, target the powerplant to finish him off.
regarding 2: Loadout pretty much depends on your style of flying/fighting. But a laser to put down the shields and a kinetic gun such as a multicannon should finish the job.

 

[Trotsky2112]

1. Is there some game mechanic that would let me prevent the target ship from frameshifting out? I saw an FSD Interdictor, but the tutorials I saw make it seem like that's for pulling ships out of super-cruise, not for corraling ships frameshifting to other systems.

2. Do I need to upgrade my ship/loadout so that I can take a ship from full armor down to dust before they even get a chance to put up distance? Or am I too overloaded and need to get my ship's speed up so that they can't put out distance?

3. How you all completing these early combat missions without having a decked out Anaconda? I upgraded my free ship to the Eagle, and am running two 1E gimbal'd beam lasers and one 1G gimbal'd multi-cannon. These are the biggest guns I've been able to find so far. I suppose I could swap out the multi-cannon for a missile launcher, but I wasn't super impressed with the damage I got from testing missiles out.

1. There is only one way to prevent a target from jumping away, and that is to cause a module malfunction. This can be done in several ways:
- Directly damage the module with your weapons (use sub-targets panel).
- Engineer for scramble spectrum (you will need to use pulses or bursts, rather than beams)
- Use a Grom Bomb. More specifically, a Containment Missile. Avaiable from Yuri Grom (powerplay). It forces the target's FSD to reboot, cancelling their jump. It's dumbfire though, so it requires skill to aim.

2. Upgrading is an excellent option. It takes a little work to unlock even one of the starter engineers. You'll need to stock up on materials, but the improvement is vast, even in the early stages. You could improve your weapons to reduce their hull faster, or your engines to catch up to them.

3. I can't really offer an opinion on this. If you have a low combat rank and not much experience, you may want to do deliveries or somesuch until you can afford a more powerful vessel (the Cobra MkIII springs to mind). The Eagle is a respectable ship, and an excellent option for newcomers, but lacks slightly in firepower, and is not ideal for bounty hunting. A good strategy is to hang around in supercruise and let the pirate interdict you (they normally will if you've taken a mission against them). Turn on "report crimes against me" in your right-hand window. This means that, as long as the other pilot hits you first, the police will turn up and help you.

Hope this helped, and good luck Commander!

 

[Slange Lands]

1. Always subtarget the FSD.
2. Yes, the pirates always reappear at full health.
3. Learn to use rail guns. It is the best sniping weapon. They are a fixed weapon and not easy to use, however, they are essential for more advanced combat so you might as well start now. Rail guns are much easier to use on the mouse.
4. The assassinate X missions are not easy. For me, the least frustrating way to learn combat was to bounty hunt in a high resource site. Those NPCs are not so quick to run away as the assassination targets. And security also helps you if you have crimes on in the right hand panel in the ship tab.

 

[Factabulous]

Those missions are going to be difficult in a small ship, your damage per second will be to low to take out the target before it jumps. Also worrying if you can't keep close to the target, eagles are known for their speed.

Personally I don't use anything less than a fer de Lance or mamba (both engineered) for those missions, because with my limited combat skills those are the ships that can deal damage and take a beating.

Or you can "git gud" in your eagle, which might take a while, but would leave you a combat God (eventually)

 

[d8veh]

Yup, you need a larger combat ship to take down those pirates. basically, you need more fire power and high damage weapons. A good technique, though could be called cheating, is to ram the pirate a few times before opening fire. They're not clever enough to respond to ramming. To ram, you need at least a medium-sized ship to have enough mass to do damage. It's not going to work with an Eagle.

 

[Eliza]

Yup, you need a larger combat ship to take down those pirates. basically, you need more fire power and high damage weapons. A good technique, though could be called cheating, is to ram the pirate a few times before opening fire. They're not clever enough to respond to ramming. To ram, you need at least a medium-sized ship to have enough mass to do damage. It's not going to work with an Eagle.

I can calm you, ramming is absolutly valid.☺

 

[Maenden]

The behaviour where a NPC reappears within seconds with with full shields and armour is stupid. It also happens when they interdict you on a mission.

The closer you get the more effective your weapons.
When your computer says 'surge detected' it means that they've stowed their weapons, so you can get really close without damage - if you're quick.

Gimballed weapons cause less damage per shot than the fixed versions.
You might want to consider using a 1F fixed multi-cannon. Leave the others gimballed to give you a target point.

Have you been using your boosters - normally the Tab key on a PC I believe - to stay close to them ?

As others said target the modules.

Crashing into things also helps if your shields are up.
I wouldn't recommend doing it with shields down in an Eagle.
I've crashed into lots of opponents (and other things) purely by accident and I've got to Elite in combat.

(Some people call it ramming, so they can pretend they did it on purpose.)

Have fun.

 

[Simbul]

Thanks all for the replies! I will figure out how to subtarget modules; that sounds like the biggest thing I am missing. Thank you for suggesting!

I have been boosting to try to catch up, but the target ships always seem to put out a higher speed than my Eagle. I have not been close enough to ram the target when they're trying to escape, but interesting to know that's a tactic! I know I've done this accidentally when close dogfighting -- I didn't catch what kind of damage it did.

After running courier & transport missions in my hauler rig for a couple days, I have a bunch of credits to spend on some better wings & weapons. So I'll try hunting around for ship & weapon upgrades too.

Thanks all!

 

[Slange Lands]

If you are into small ships like the eagle, viper and courier, these are an absolute must: https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Enhanced_Performance_Thrusters. NO ONE will be able to outrun you if they are engineered to Grade 5 Dirty Drives. My courier boosts at 885 m/s with three seeker missile racks. They are special thrusters only for small ships and are usually referred to as EPT's. When I first heard the acronym, I thought Early Pregnancy Test?!!!! I was politely informed otherwise.

 

[Ashnak]

Are you still in the starter zone, or have you already ventured out into the Galaxy? A lot of the stuff mentioned here (enhanced thrusters, bigger ships, better weapons, engineers, PowerPlay) will not be available in the starter zone (and Engineers, which include the Enhanced Thrusters, are only available in Horizons). I don't know if the "kill pirate" missions are. Out in the Galaxy, those pirates (at least the ones I encounter) fly anything from a Python upwards - not exactly what I'd take on in an Eagle, so I'd guess you're still in the starter zone, and the pirates there are scaled down to match.

What I do to keep them from running is to shoot them fast enough. No finessing like killing their thrusters or FSDs, just raw and brutal firepower. Of course that doesn't work if that firepower isn't available to you. So yes, you'll need to kill either their thrusters, FSD or powerplant. Best weapon for that is supposedly a railgun - unfortunately, that's also one of the hardest weapons to master in this game.

Checking the ship stats in Coriolis, there are a lot of ships that are faster than the baseline Eagle - still, try to catch up with 4 pips in ENG and two to WEP (you won't need shields if your target is already running), and boost. Yes, you can upgrade the Eagle to be one of the faster ships in the game, but that requires access to better modules (for the base version), which reportedly aren't all available in the starter zone. The fastest ship in basic configuration would be the Viper Mk.III (and she continues to be the fastest even with introduction of Engineers, as long as you don't weigh her down).

 

[Simbul]

I'm out of the starter zone. Not too far away though, I don't think. I've been doing missions around/in the Ehecatl system. I do have Horizons!

Have not figured out the Engineering stuff yet! I'll start reading up on that. Also how to allocate pips to systems... I haven't played with that either.

Thanks!

 

[Eliza]

I'm out of the starter zone. Not too far away though, I don't think. I've been doing missions around/in the Ehecatl system. I do have Horizons!

Have not figured out the Engineering stuff yet! I'll start reading up on that. Also how to allocate pips to systems... I haven't played with that either.

Thanks!

Do you play via keyboard/Mouse? Then you can allocate your "Power" to "Systems", "Engines" and "Weapons" via the arrow-keys.
Up-key: Engines
Left-Key: Systems (Shields)
Right-Key: Weapons
Down-Key: Reset

 

[Maolagin]

Lots of good advice in this thread, although I think a good deal of it is maybe premature for a player just starting out.

If the OP is managing to almost defeat pirates in an Eagle, we're still looking at fairly low-ranking NPC opponents. I'd say OP is fine sticking with gimbal weapons for now, especially if adding module subtargeting to the mix. If wanting to experiment with fixed weapons (to improve DPS or counter chaff), I'd start with fixed hitscan weapons like lasers, not a ballistic weapon where you have to manage leading the target. My inclination would also be to move into a ship with 2-2 hardpoints - a Viper 3 or Cobra can be had for not much more outlay, and are quite a bit easier to get value from than an Eagle.

And yes, definitely start doing pip management. That right there is probably why OP can't keep up with fleeing targets. 4 pips to engines for speed!

 

[Eliza]

Lots of good advice in this thread, although I think a good deal of it is maybe premature for a player just starting out.

If the OP is managing to almost defeat pirates in an Eagle, we're still looking at fairly low-ranking NPC opponents. I'd say OP is fine sticking with gimbal weapons for now, especially if adding module subtargeting to the mix. If wanting to experiment with fixed weapons (to improve DPS or counter chaff), I'd start with fixed hitscan weapons like lasers, not a ballistic weapon where you have to manage leading the target. My inclination would also be to move into a ship with 2-2 hardpoints - a Viper 3 or Cobra can be had for not much more outlay, and are quite a bit easier to get value from than an Eagle.

And yes, definitely start doing pip management. That right there is probably why OP can't keep up with fleeing targets. 4 pips to engines for speed!

Well he had a bunch of questions. Who are we to doubt OP's comprehension abilities? We're only here to help out as good as we can. ☺

 

[Ashnak]

Ok, you'll need to learn about pips.
And you may want to upgrade your Eagle's systems. If you still fly in the default loadout, it's little wonder a lot of ships can run from you - those E-rated modules are cheap and heavy, that's all. And one of the problems with the Eagle (and the Viper) is that the naked Hull is already pretty heavy, so throwing on more heavy modules makes the ship only slower.

 

[d8veh]

Thanks all for the replies! I will figure out how to subtarget modules; that sounds like the biggest thing I am missing. Thank you for suggesting!

I have been boosting to try to catch up, but the target ships always seem to put out a higher speed than my Eagle. I have not been close enough to ram the target when they're trying to escape, but interesting to know that's a tactic! I know I've done this accidentally when close dogfighting -- I didn't catch what kind of damage it did.

After running courier & transport missions in my hauler rig for a couple days, I have a bunch of credits to spend on some better wings & weapons. So I'll try hunting around for ship & weapon upgrades too.

Thanks all!

A couple of things. Targeting modules and doing enough damage to them with an Eagle is not going to be very effective. Maybe if you have engineered high damage weapons, like fixed cannons or rail guns, you can get some advantage.

Next, the advantage of ramming is that the NPC don't know you're doing it, so when they come face to face to scan you, you can ram them, then they come back again facing you to try and scan you again, so you can ram them again and repeat until they blow up without them firing a single shot. A heavy ship with strong shields (plus 4 pips to shields) is all you need.

 

[SargonX]

I'm a bit confused. I've read in several places, that the Eagle is a great combat ship at the beginning. But according to this thread, the Eagle is not even capable of doing "take down known pirate" missions one gets at the beginning of a commanders career. So in what combat-related scenario would it even make sense to use an Eagle?

 

[Ashnak]

I'm a bit confused. I've read in several places, that the Eagle is a great combat ship at the beginning. But according to this thread, the Eagle is not even capable of doing "take down known pirate" missions one gets at the beginning of a commanders career. So in what combat-related scenario would it even make sense to use an Eagle?

The Eagle is the cheapest small combat ship. As such, it had its place for new pilots who wanted to focus on combat. But with the credit inflation, a Viper is just as easily obtainable and would offer a much tougher and harder hitting vessel. You don't even need to go Void Opal mining for that - simply scanning a few systems that are not yet in your nav computer, then travelling 20 ly and selling the scan data will make you a few hundred kCr (and a few million, if you scan the right systems and can get a surface scan of an Earthlike or Terraformable) - enough to buy and outfit a Viper.
As to where you could (or I would) take a basic Eagle for combat - any place with heavy system security presence and low level criminals. That would usually be Nav Beacons or Low RES. Upgrading the basic Eagle with better modules would help somewhat, too. So the Eagle (like the Sidewinder or the Hauler) might also be a good ship to learn about modules and upgrading.