A Simple Solution to Combat Logging

[galahad2069]

So are you that naïve to suggest there isn't PvE in Open? So what have I been doing in Open for the last several months? I agree there isn't PvP in Solo but to even suggest that there isn't PvE in Open just shows how utterly out of touch you are in regards to the game. Congratulations you have just made every comment you now make about Open totally irrelevant because people will quote the above !

No, ofc I didn't suggest anything like there was no PvE in Open. People can quote whatever they want out of context, what I said was that you couldn't possibly have chosen "PvE[-only] in Open", as there is no such option.

Neither the "PvE Open" nor the "PvP Solo" buttons exist, because none of these would make the slightest sense. You are a pilot in ED, not a god/ghost.

Not even in Solo are you totally on your own, you share the Galaxy with a bunch of NPC's, and you are not invulnerable to their weapon fire. The only difference in Open is that some of those rectangles are hollow.

 

[Sylveria]

Neither the "PvE Open" nor the "PvP Solo" buttons exist, because none of these would make the slightest sense. You are a pilot in ED, not a god/ghost.

Only one of these examples "wouldn't make sense". The other makes complete logical sense.

Being a pilot in ED in "PvE Open" makes complete sense- if you're not interested in engaging other players, but only NPC's.

Conversely- being a pilot in ED as "PvP Solo" indeed doesn't make sense because in order to engage another player you'd have to have another player to begin with.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

What FD should have gone with, is character slots, which are locked to the mode of your choice.
Make a CMDR for Open, and it's locked to that mode permanently (although asking support nicely might get you moved a limited number of times).
Or you can have a CMDR for solo/private, but can not enter open.

It's too late to change this now. Lol
But then with hind sight, it would have been better to create Open PvE and Open PvP modes too, again, maybe locking your CMDR to the mode you choose.

 

[M00ka]

Only one of these examples "wouldn't make sense". The other makes complete logical sense.

Being a pilot in ED in "PvE Open" makes complete sense- if you're not interested in engaging other players, but only NPC's.

Conversely- being a pilot in ED as "PvP Solo" indeed doesn't make sense because in order to engage another player you'd have to have another player to begin with.

Furthermore I would guess that the majority of players in Open are PvE not PvP. For example, all the explorers in Open - they aren't engaging in PvP are they? I can put my hand on my heart and state with absolute certainty that for the last several months of daily gameplay in Open I have ONLY engaged in PvE and I bet I am not alone in that style of play either.

 

[Sylveria]

What FD should have gone with, is character slots, which are locked to the mode of your choice.
Make a CMDR for Open, and it's locked to that mode permanently (although asking support nicely might get you moved a limited number of times).
Or you can have a CMDR for solo/private, but can not enter open.

It's too late to change this now. Lol
But then with hind sight, it would have been better to create Open PvE and Open PvP modes too, again, maybe locking your CMDR to the mode you choose.

Or at least a proper PvP/PvE flagging system so that a CMDR who wishes to engage other players knows immediately whether or not they're "fair game".

Perhaps segregated universes isn't on the menu... but a proper flagging system (with a timer to prevent abuse) which prevents players from engaging or being engaged unless they're flagged is still completely doable given the current framework. Hell, they wouldn't even have to create a different game mode for it. Sure, those who want the ability to engage anyone they wish wouldn't like it... but I'm sure they like players they can't see or engage indirectly affecting the universe even less.

 

[galahad2069]

Only one of these examples "wouldn't make sense". The other makes complete logical sense.

Being a pilot in ED in "PvE Open" makes complete sense- if you're not interested in engaging other players, but only NPC's.

Conversely- being a pilot in ED as "PvP Solo" indeed doesn't make sense because in order to engage another player you'd have to have another player to begin with.

No, being invulnerable does NOT make any sense in ED, precisely because you are playing a pilot - there are no spectators/ghosts/gods in this game universe.

Yes, some rectangles are hollow in Open, then what? Still it's only pixels. Being overly concerned about the fact that some of those pixels are controlled by real people is truly ridiculous tbh.

And you even have choices. No human-controlled pixels is your heart's desire? Pick Solo. You can even choose PG and select the individuals whom you allow to control a few pixels on your screen. EZ.

 

[Bashy81]

I'm quite sure that's what some would have others believe. Here we are years later and some are still attempting to spread misinformation about the game.

Then we come back to the original design and marketing of the game where it's explicitly stated the entire BGS was meant to be affected from any of the game modes. (Hotel California, here we come yet again...) Right, wrong or otherwise- that's the way the game was designed. Yet we have some who as self-appointed "gatekeepers" think they have some sort of authority to tell other players what they can and cannot do in the game.

That's exactly why Frontier hasn't changed anything- and why they won't. Some expected EVE 2.0 and they didn't get it, which is why they're still salty.

They started with PowerPlay... then tried to encompass the BGS... and when Frontier realized what was happening, they put the kibosh on it all. Oops.

They might have gotten away with PowerPlay- had they not gotten so greedy.

(P.S. you forgot the /sarcasm tags, but I do know your posts well enough to know it's implied sarcasm. )

Nice conspiracy theory. Im glad life isnt that simple though. Lots of people have different opinions, some moderate, some extreme. Just because you might equate people who disagree with you into one group, doesnt mean they have a group agenda or plot against you. That's paranoia.

I can’t believe this is still going. Maybe people should just play the game and spend less time arguing over a situation that is never going to change? Just a thought.

Seal-clubbing was never going to be addressed, its an eternal part of the game and nothing can be done except OpenPvE. Oh, right, Starter Systems.
ED is a space sim game thing under continuing if glacial development. Things can and do change, so people discuss the merits of possible changes they like/loathe.

 

[Theodrid]

Round and round it goes and where it will stop nobody knows......

This is and always was a silly discussion, Frontier's actions and words, the design of the game and the choice of infrastructure used speaks far louder than any 'opinion' on these boards ever will.

Some of you simply cannot have it both ways, when you, (if you chose to do so), blow up somebody's ship for whatever reason and they get cheesed off about it the usual suspects are and have been the first to say 'man up, it doesn't matter it's only pretend space pixels'. But if those very same pretend space pixels vanish on you then suddenly it is an unmitigated disaster, a gaming tragedy and a huge deal. Some of you are asking players to deal with losing potentially months of exploration data, or millions of credits, (I know creds aren't worth loads these days but still), of cargo and not say a word while at the same time declaring it is your absolute right to bleat about having x amount of your time 'wasted'.

Either they are pretend space pixels that don't matter or they are not, make your bloody minds up.

 

[Stinja]

Being a pilot in ED in "PvE Open" makes complete sense- if you're not interested in engaging other players, but only NPC's.

Ever heard of the Fuel Rats?
They engage with other players in a non-PvP manner, in Open, as Open makes the most sense to achieve that.

The idea that players engage each other only for PvP pewpew is ridiculous. As above emergent content delivery via fuel limpets; some of my early wing bounty hunting RES sites was with complete randoms; I've done mining, material and guardian stuff all with randoms - while in Open.
Chance encounters, look at their loadout, a friendly text "oh hey are you doing X? want to X together?".

In many ways PvP makes more sense in Private Groups: easier to meet up; every hollow-square you meet is a combat-fitted and willing player; guaranteed instancing with non-PvE and non-Cloggers.

 

[Sylveria]

Nice conspiracy theory. Im glad life isnt that simple though. Lots of people have different opinions, some moderate, some extreme. Just because you might equate people who disagree with you into one group, doesnt mean they have a group agenda or plot against you. That's paranoia.

Nice try. That's the best you can do- a dismissive reply claiming it's all "conspiracy theory"? A quick and simple search of the forums would prove your assertion absolutely false, here. That's not "paranoia" that's fact.

This game was indeed designed to be affected by any of the "modes" regardless of playstyle. It's also a fact that an attempt to "coup" the game as Open-only was made, starting with the Open-only PowerPlay discussions. I could create a timeline for you- but as you were part of those discussions being intellectually dishonest isn't going to help you here.

You can attempt to rewrite history- but it's all still available in plain text for anyone who wishes to read it.

Round and round it goes and where it will stop nobody knows......

This is and always was a silly discussion, Frontier's actions and words, the design of the game and the choice of infrastructure used speaks far louder than any 'opinion' on these boards ever will.

Some of you simply cannot have it both ways, when you, (if you chose to do so), blow up somebody's ship for whatever reason and they get cheesed off about it the usual suspects are and have been the first to say 'man up, it doesn't matter it's only pretend space pixels'. But if those very same pretend space pixels vanish on you then suddenly it is an unmitigated disaster, a gaming tragedy and a huge deal. Some of you are asking players to deal with losing potentially months of exploration data, or millions of credits, (I know creds aren't worth loads these days but still), of cargo and not say a word while at the same time declaring it is your absolute right to bleat about having x amount of your time 'wasted'.

Either they are pretend space pixels that don't matter or they are not, make your bloody minds up.

Exactly. Semantics can be used to define context both ways. If it's going to be addressed as a "serious issue" then the entirety of it needs to be addressed as such, not just cherry-picking by those who insist that they're being "cheated" out of something. Luckily, it's "just a video game and space pixels" to those who dismiss the idea that people haven't lost anything by having their ships blown up, etc. eh?

Ever heard of the Fuel Rats?
They engage with other players in a non-PvP manner, in Open, as Open makes the most sense to achieve that.

The idea that players engage each other only for PvP pewpew is ridiculous. As above emergent content delivery via fuel limpets; some of my early wing bounty hunting RES sites was with complete randoms; I've done mining, material and guardian stuff all with randoms - while in Open.

Now you're playing semantics games. You know exactly what I meant by "engaging" other players- in combat.

Yes, I do indeed know who the Fuel Rats are. I also participated in quite a few discussions among them in Hotel California as well. But you already knew that, because you were there, too.

 

[Hossi]

I just had a thought.

Does anyone has some idea how many cloggers there actually are?
I mean 'real' cloggers.

I'm not talking about some noob who panics and pulls the plug. Noobs don't even know what they are doing, thats why they are noobs. And no amount of anti clogging measures will affect this, since they are not doing that deliberate. You can't stop someone from doing something if this someone doesn't even know what he is doing.

I mean, how many 'habitual' cloggers are there even? How many people start up elite, click on 'open', and think to themself :"If I get interdicted, I'm just gonna pull the plug".
Do we have any number there?
I mean, I've never met any clogger in several thousand hours in game, but since we are on page 30 now there must be some people who do this, right?
How many of these people do you know? How many do you meet?

 

[M00ka]

I just had a thought.

Does anyone has some idea how many cloggers there actually are?
I mean 'real' cloggers.

I'm not talking about some noob who panics and pulls the plug. Noobs don't even know what they are doing, thats why they are noobs. And no amount of anti clogging measures will affect this, since they are not doing that deliberate. You can't stop someone from doing something if this someone doesn't even know what he is doing.

I mean, how many 'habitual' cloggers are there even? How many people start up elite, click on 'open', and think to themself :"If I get interdicted, I'm just gonna pull the plug".
Do we have any number there?
I mean, I've never met any clogger in several thousand hours in game, but since we are on page 30 now there must be some people who do this, right?
How many of these people do you know? How many do you meet?

Well I would guess that there are as many CLOGers out there as there are griefers/gankers/seal clubbers - in other words considerably less that some here allude to!

 

[Rat Catcher]

I just had a thought.

Does anyone has some idea how many cloggers there actually are?
I mean 'real' cloggers.
...

Think of a number 1 less than the total player base, that is how many are perceived /s

But, less flippant, I know of none.

 

[Sylveria]

I just had a thought.

Does anyone has some idea how many cloggers there actually are?
I mean 'real' cloggers.

I'm not talking about some noob who panics and pulls the plug. Noobs don't even know what they are doing, thats why they are noobs. And no amount of anti clogging measures will affect this, since they are not doing that deliberate. You can't stop someone from doing something if this someone doesn't even know what he is doing.

I mean, how many 'habitual' cloggers are there even? How many people start up elite, click on 'open', and think to themself :"If I get interdicted, I'm just gonna pull the plug".
Do we have any number there?
I mean, I've never met any clogger in several thousand hours in game, but since we are on page 30 now there must be some people who do this, right?
How many of these people do you know? How many do you meet?

And that's the problem... innit? I mean, Frontier doesn't even know for certain. I doubt they log each player's activity to parse them and see how many times they've disconnected from the game- let alone for what reason.

If they had that sort of ability- all they'd need to do is investigate the account that got reported, and if it's a miniscule number disregard the report. If it's a large number, apply penalties to that account.

I don't abide "cheating" at all... but I also don't abide pigeonholing other players based on speculation and assertion rather than facts. The latter of which is problematic because the Court of Public Opinion rules above logic.

 

[Bashy81]

Nice try. That's the best you can do- a dismissive reply claiming it's all "conspiracy theory"? A quick and simple search of the forums would prove your assertion absolutely false, here. That's not "paranoia" that's fact.

This game was indeed designed to be affected by any of the "modes" regardless of playstyle. It's also a fact that an attempt to "coup" the game as Open-only was made, starting with the Open-only PowerPlay discussions. I could create a timeline for you- but as you were part of those discussions being intellectually dishonest isn't going to help you here.

You can attempt to rewrite history- but it's all still available in plain text for anyone who wishes to read it.

^ That is nonsense, not facts. You said:

"Some expected EVE 2.0 and they didn't get it, which is why they're still salty.

They started with PowerPlay... then tried to encompass the BGS... and when Frontier realized what was happening, they put the kibosh on it all. Oops.

They might have gotten away with PowerPlay- had they not gotten so greedy."

That's a fantasy narrative, and you talk about facts? Sure, it sounds jokey enough, but you go on to claim you've got facts? about the developer's thoughts & motives?, and an invented "They" who started with Powerplay (no, that was Powerplayers trying to fix their broken feature) then went on to make moves on the BGS. Ofc some others tried to pin OpenOnlyEverything onto the coattails of the OOPP discussion, just as others at the other extreme tried to pin on the fear of encroaching OpenOnly-ness into other areas (ie. the Slippery Slope) .

It is fundamentally a bunch of individuals with different views & reasons, who naturally fall on one side or the other over a polarising issue. That's it. No whiff of a conspiracy; that is all in your head.

A substantial search of the forums (there were thousands of posts on the OOPP Flash Topics alone) would show you this:

A minority opposed the Open-Only Powerplay Flash Topic. A majority supported it. A few on the fringe called for Open-Only BGS, or open-only-everything, or whatever slant they had on it, and were roundly opposed.

Thats how it was, thats the facts, no matter how you try to measure them from all the sources from back then. Im not going to accuse you of dishonesty of any kind, but I do think you're being genuinely deluded.

Anyway, must be off now, ive got an important meeting with an ex-Soviet rogue in his evil lair. I imagine he'll be in his swivel chair stroking his fluffy white cat as usual, talking maniacally about "Open-ing New Opportunities" and other such euphemisms for an underlying agenda for mayhem and murder. We'll probably go seal-clubbing after canapes.

 

[Misty_Dark]

I give up
Whatever makes you happy...

give up? so you do not care about bad solutions to a minor problem? that only aims to solve part of the reported issue? ie cherry picking when the solution is to be used... but I digress. anyone who do not care to actually read what they respond too, is seldom very interested in what was actually said...

 

[Rat Catcher]

give up? so you do not care about bad solutions to a minor problem? that only aims to solve part of the reported issue? ie cherry picking when the solution is to be used... but I digress. anyone who do not care to actually read what they respond too, is seldom very interested in what was actually said...

Precisely that which I was implying about your good self - apparently a distinct lack of comprehension in the written word. Have fun, I certainly did

As far as solutions to a minor problem - read, comprehend, you may be enlightened...

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

given how bad 5C screws with powerplay I don't understand why anybody argues for keeping PowerPlay accessible to Solo in the name of supporting all playstyles or some crap. OOPP would enable PP to be the endgame thing some want it to be. Or it wouldn't affect anybody anyway because honestly, who really cares about PowerPlay in Solo?

 

[Jack Schitt]

These threads are awesome.

Be warned that the lustre starts to wear off after the first four-and-a-half years or so.

What FD should have gone with, is character slots, which are locked to the mode of your choice.

An idea much discussed back in the DDDay if memory serves, but of course that would have meant FD deciding very early on to offer every PC player multiple character slots, which was something spoken about only in the vaguest of terms. Once the game was launched and people started purchasing second and third accounts to work around other issues with the game -- most notably combining long-duration exploration with more immediate bubble activities -- I suspect it was the final nail in that particular coffin. No sane company offers for free what customers are paying money for.

But then with hind sight, it would have been better to create Open PvE and Open PvP modes too, again, maybe locking your CMDR to the mode you choose.

Also discussed IIRC, but ignored in part because of the whole "rare and meaningful" narrative that coalesced around the idea that the game's rules and the community itself would police any griefing problems.

The implication seemed to be that the game didn't need traditional PVP/PVE modes/flags/servers because of its unique design, and to be fair that's largely true from a technical perspective. The Modes, when applied as a sledgehammer to the nuts so to speak, do allow players to choose between PVE and PVP-oriented gameplay. What FD hadn't counted on is the psychological perspective, where some PVE players feel that they're being short changed on the full immersive experience of sharing the galaxy with the maximum number of like-minded players, while other players feel that they're being denied the full PVP experience because opponents can "escape" to modes other than Open.

I mean, how many 'habitual' cloggers are there even? How many people start up elite, click on 'open', and think to themself :"If I get interdicted, I'm just gonna pull the plug".

I've seen a few posts on the forums from players claiming to do exactly that, although it's impossible to know whether or not they were merely pulling the plonkers of the players who don't.

[Edited: got my PVPs and PVEs mixed up]​

 

[Misty_Dark]

given how bad 5C screws with powerplay I don't understand why anybody argues for keeping PowerPlay accessible to Solo in the name of supporting all playstyles or some crap. OOPP would enable PP to be the endgame thing some want it to be. Or it wouldn't affect anybody anyway because honestly, who really cares about PowerPlay in Solo?

So what about PC, Xbox and Playstation? Timezones? What do you intend to do about those?

Should PP only be allowed to on ONE platform? I mean the other two are just hidden away from you....
Should PP only be allowed to be played between for example 16:00 and 22:00 time UTC time, so that everyone doing PP are doing it at the same time, so that nobody is doing their bits at a time when you do not play....