General Remove "likelihood" feature, it is unnecessary in the current version of the FSS

[muroko]

There are 2 kind of players regarding surface signals, one is looking for them the other is not. Likelihood was introduced in the beta, where the option to resolve surface signals was removed and we NEEDED the likelihood information to decide if we are gonna fly out to a body to map it or not. Since in the current version of the FSS it's again possible to fully determine if the body has surface signals or not, the likelihood information is totally irrelevant.

If I'm not looking for surface signals, i can skip the scan (which seems to stop from doing it in the background) and i can just move on. It works great now, no stutters if you are speed scanning.

If I'm looking for surface signals, i will definitely wait for it to resolve in the FSS, because it is entirely possible that i find signals even if it's "Unlikely" and at the same time it is possible that i will find nothing even if it's "Likely" or above.

Again, we needed it in the beta, because it was necessary to decide which body we had to visit and map.

I have spoken.

 

[varonica]

The other thing is, it doesn't seem to make any difference, I have scanned volcanic bodies with highly likely, likely and highly unlikely and every single one has features, the highly unlikely bodies seemed to have almost as many features as the highly likely, so in effect this change seems to be utterly meaningless, we already knew that from the spinning circle. If the spinning circle appeared when you zoomed in there was 99.999% chance they had volcanics. I have come across maybe half a dozen with the spinning circle that didn't, so the new probability tags really convey no more information than we already had.

The new layout of the information is probably the best thing to come out of this FSS update, the lack of processing in the background the worst, oh well I guess that does show it's not always worth pursuing player suggestions even if they seem reasonable at first glance.

 

[Para Handy]

........
Again, we needed it in the beta, because it was necessary to decide which body we had to visit and map.

I have spoken.

You overlook the fact that this probability notification was specifically introduced because of the time it takes to complete the scan when there are surface features.

From the patch notes (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/january-update-patch-notes.535051/post-8233677):

Exploration

• Implemented an alternative solution to help mitigate the long delay when scanning planets with geological sites.:
  • As it currently stands, in order for the geological/biological sites to be placed on the surface, the entire stellar body must be fully generated (we then know the topography and can place sites where they will be accessible), which can take tens of seconds.
  • As part of the January Update, we aim to address this with an alternative process. We have run tests on thousands of in-game planetary bodies and by using this data, we're able to extrapolate the likelihood of geological/biologic sites being present on similar stellar bodies. We then use this data, and indicate if the planet is ‘Unlikely’, ‘Likely’, or ‘Very Likely’ to have a geological/biological sites.
  • It is not 100% guaranteed that there will be a geological/biological site on the planetary body, but does give commanders a much faster indication of probability. This will enable commanders to quickly ascertain if the planet's worth a visit.
  • If the commander wants to have a definitive answer without travelling to the body they can still wait for the scan to complete in FSS. This data is also now shown in the body details on the system map.
  • Thargoid, Guardian or Human sites will show up instantaneously. These results have moved to the stellar body details shown on the right in the zoomed in FSS view.

So "you have spoken" but really maybe you shouldn't have.

 

[MK Regular]

There are 2 kind of players regarding surface signals, one is looking for them the other is not. Likelihood was introduced in the beta, where the option to resolve surface signals was removed and we NEEDED the likelihood information to decide if we are gonna fly out to a body to map it or not. Since in the current version of the FSS it's again possible to fully determine if the body has surface signals or not, the likelihood information is totally irrelevant.

If I'm not looking for surface signals, i can skip the scan (which seems to stop from doing it in the background) and i can just move on. It works great now, no stutters if you are speed scanning.

If I'm looking for surface signals, i will definitely wait for it to resolve in the FSS, because it is entirely possible that i find signals even if it's "Unlikely" and at the same time it is possible that i will find nothing even if it's "Likely" or above.

Again, we needed it in the beta, because it was necessary to decide which body we had to visit and map.

But why should it be removed? Like you say, we still get the same data that we did before the patch so the probability readout isn't replacing anything, so why should the new feature be removed?

The idea behind the probability readout was to give the player more information than they would previously get while the geological POIs were generating. In this respect, they are useful as they can allow a player to make semi-informed decisions earlier than they otherwise would. I fail to see why this feature should be removed.

I have spoken.

The quote "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" comes to mind.

 

[varonica]

But why should it be removed? Like you say, we still get the same data that we did before the patch so the probability readout isn't replacing anything, so why should the new feature be removed?

Personally for myself I don't think it should be removed, it does add info for those who want a quick but not necessarily accurate estimate of features, but I am dissapointed that it now takes longer for players who want to have full resolution while in the FSS, since it no longer processes in the background we can't zoom out and check back after starting processing on the rest of the moons of a gas giant. If this had been tested properly in the beta, with the removal of all background processing I think it would have got the thumbs down from the explorers who were testing the beta. The point of the beta was to see if this new feature was suitable and what we wanted, changing it after the beta ended and making it behave differently than it did in the beta really makes running the beta entirely pointless.

How it used to go, for instance is if I came across a GG with 9 moons, 7 active (not an unusual number for large systems), I could quickly zoom in and out on each one in order, no more than a second per moon to get them all processing in the background, say ten seconds, then I could flick back to the first one and check them all in order since they aere all done by that time, again a second per moon for seven moons, so 16 seconds to check them all.

Now I have to sit and wait on every active moon until it resolves, say seven to ten seconds per active moon, so a quick scan that used to take me 16 seconds even at the best possibility now takes me four to five times as long.

 

[muroko]

You overlook the fact that this probability notification was specifically introduced because of the time take to complete the scan when there are surface features.

and how does this information shortens the scan times?

the probability readout isn't replacing anything

it did replace the LOCATIONS (Human, Guardian, Thargoid) which are now shown on the right side panel, where it's way harder to see them

they are useful as they can allow a player to make semi-informed decisions earlier than they otherwise would.

elaborate on what kind of decision you are planning to make based on that probability information.

 

[muroko]

But it does! Maybe not always or under certain conditions (unsure, still some work in progress from my side), but I already did this: zooming out in an unfinished scan situation, went to the local map and saw the scanning still in action and completing there. So in my case certainly not a "must have" but useful for focused scanning if you want to go to a surface with POIs as soon as possible. Though why we can't wait these few seconds is beyond me, but then I also don't get those explorers who are in a rush. They could probably appreciate it.

the scan doesn't work in the background. once you go to the system map and select a body which has probably a location, the scan starts there and finishes. here is a video on it.

 

[varonica]

But it does! Maybe not always or under certain conditions (unsure, still some work in progress from my side), but I already did this: zooming out in an unfinished scan situation, went to the local map and saw the scanning still in action and completing there. So in my case certainly not a "must have" but useful for focused scanning if you want to go to a surface with POIs as soon as possible. Though why we can't wait these few seconds is beyond me, but then I also don't get those explorers who are in a rush. They could probably appreciate it.

If you exit to the system map it finishes the processing in the background, but if you zoom out in the FSS it doesn't, I can verify this because I zoomed out, waited 1 minute, then zoomed back in and still had to wait for 7+seconds for it to finish. Exiting the FSS and entering the system map to make it finish processing in the background isn't a suitable solution.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There are 2 kind of players regarding surface signals, one is looking for them the other is not. Likelihood was introduced in the beta, where the option to resolve surface signals was removed and we NEEDED the likelihood information to decide if we are gonna fly out to a body to map it or not. Since in the current version of the FSS it's again possible to fully determine if the body has surface signals or not, the likelihood information is totally irrelevant.

If I'm not looking for surface signals, i can skip the scan (which seems to stop from doing it in the background) and i can just move on. It works great now, no stutters if you are speed scanning.

If I'm looking for surface signals, i will definitely wait for it to resolve in the FSS, because it is entirely possible that i find signals even if it's "Unlikely" and at the same time it is possible that i will find nothing even if it's "Likely" or above.

Again, we needed it in the beta, because it was necessary to decide which body we had to visit and map.

I have spoken.

I look for surface signals and want the probability in and will use it. I do not want it removed.

 

[Florenus]

First of all I like that Locations are shown instantaneously. When looking for aliens or anything out of ordinary, this is great.
Maybe exact probability information on scanned features isn't exactly necessary - i'm more interested in simply knowing whether there might also be biological POIs on the planet or not. Until now I had to wait for the whole scan to resolve, even if in the end there were only geological features - never a surprise if planet has volcanic activity.

 

[varonica]

Somewhat surprising outcome, as I didn't expect or understand why it scans in the background in the local map but not in the FSS.

It was the background scanning in the FSS that was causing the stuttering for some people, so I guess the only way to fix that was to remove the background scanning in the FSS altogether. I must admit I did quite like it when the background scanning ran as you entered the system even though that was a bug, for me it was over well before I finished fuel scooping and then all signals were available instantly, but I do believe it was a bigger problem for people with slower hardware and in areas where there were a lot more signals.

First of all I like that Locations are shown instantaneously. When looking for aliens or anything out of ordinary, this is great.
Maybe exact probability information on scanned features isn't exactly necessary - i'm more interested in simply knowing whether there might also be biological POIs on the planet or not. Until now I had to wait for the whole scan to resolve, even if in the end there were only geological features - never a surprise if planet has volcanic activity.

It was always an issue that they tied the bio and other signals to the geo scanning, I think that annoyed people a lot. A body with bio and alien signals but no geo finished resolving instantly, but throw in geo and you had delays and stuttering. The way it works I don't think they are ever going to satisfy everyone, perhaps if they had tools that just scanned for bio and/or human/alien signals, or maybe a switch in the FSS that said to just ignore geo, I don't know, we'll just have to see what happens.

"scan the system for alien life Mr Spock"

"Nothing found Captain"

"Well then get us the heck out of there Mr Sulu, this place is as boring as disneyland!"

 

[muroko]

I look for surface signals and want the probability in and will use it. I do not want it removed.

Can you elaborate on what exactly will you be using the probability information for? You will skip a 10 second scan for an "Unlikely" Biological signal, just because it's unlikely?

First of all I like that Locations are shown instantaneously. When looking for aliens or anything out of ordinary, this is great.
Maybe exact probability information on scanned features isn't exactly necessary - i'm more interested in simply knowing whether there might also be biological POIs on the planet or not. Until now I had to wait for the whole scan to resolve, even if in the end there were only geological features - never a surprise if planet has volcanic activity.

The Locations were instant showing before the patch too. Nothing has changed there, except now it's shown in a location which is easier to miss.

The BIO and GEO scan is still the same thing. If a body has 48 Geo signals and it also has 3 Bio, you still have to wait for the full scan to finish.

 

[muroko]

I got 2 insults and 0 reasonable explanations so far on how the probability information is useful at the moment.

 

[Thatchinho]

There are 2 kind of players regarding surface signals, one is looking for them the other is not. Likelihood was introduced in the beta, where the option to resolve surface signals was removed and we NEEDED the likelihood information to decide if we are gonna fly out to a body to map it or not. Since in the current version of the FSS it's again possible to fully determine if the body has surface signals or not, the likelihood information is totally irrelevant.

If I'm not looking for surface signals, i can skip the scan (which seems to stop from doing it in the background) and i can just move on. It works great now, no stutters if you are speed scanning.

If I'm looking for surface signals, i will definitely wait for it to resolve in the FSS, because it is entirely possible that i find signals even if it's "Unlikely" and at the same time it is possible that i will find nothing even if it's "Likely" or above.

Again, we needed it in the beta, because it was necessary to decide which body we had to visit and map.

I have spoken.

Counter suggestion:

Disregard OP’s suggestion as OP doesn’t know what the funk they’re talking about.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Can you elaborate on what exactly will you be using the probability information for? You will skip a 10 second scan for an "Unlikely" Biological signal, just because it's unlikely?

For me it's longer then 10 seconds a planet with POI. So far I have not come across an unlikely that doesn't have POI's. So for me I use it to see if there are any POI on the planet and have no wish to wait 10-20 seconds for each planet.

The Locations were instant showing before the patch too. Nothing has changed there, except now it's shown in a location which is easier to miss.

Not sure what that's got to do with it.

The BIO and GEO scan is still the same thing. If a body has 48 Geo signals and it also has 3 Bio, you still have to wait for the full scan to finish.

Only to see the exact number. I don't care about that and happy to see numbers when I use the DSS.

 

[Para Handy]

I got 2 insults and 0 reasonable explanations so far on how the probability information is useful at the moment.

No, what you got was people telling you that you completely ignore the fact that it is a feature specifically introduced by the developers. You assert that it was something added in the beta just to overcome a beta issue whereas it totally was not. I even quoted you the section from the patch notes which explains why the feature was implemented.

@Thatchinho is quite correct and I just can't make a further comment about your inability to accept your error without me getting an infraction.

 

[Factabulous]

Only to see the exact number. I don't care about that and happy to see numbers when I use the DSS.

That is a really good point!

With the estimates we don't need the POI to resolve, if they took out the estimates we'd be back to waiting (20 secs in my case) for the POI. And now the POI don't resolve in the background that would be a nerf.

Seems the OP is (somewhat bizarrely) arguing that the estimates should be removed, while also in other threads arguing that the background scanning should not be re-instated. We need one or the other (though I liked both!).

 

[Old Duck]

and how does this information shortens the scan times?

I don't understand you people at all. Why do you CARE if a planet has geological or biological POIs UNLESS you plan to fly there and map the planet? That is how this new "likelihood" feature greatly shortens scan times - as soon as I see a planet has the likelihood for having biologicals, I can target it and fly over there to map it. Before I would have to wait 30-60 seconds to learn IF it had any biological signals or not (usually not). Now I know immediately and can do something about it.

You get no extra bonus for scanning a planet from FSS long enough to tell you whether or not it has these POIs, and so far every "likely" I've gotten has been true, so it greatly speeds up things for me and the rest of us who understand exploration.

 

[Old Duck]

I got 2 insults and 0 reasonable explanations so far on how the probability information is useful at the moment.

You are right, this is terrible. You deserve way more than just two insults

 

[Ezren]

"I won't use this feature, so remove it."

Come on now.