I think you're confusing TRAVEL with EXPLORATION

[Shiro Akai]

I may be wrong but I have that nagging feeling that many CMDRs confuse travel distance with exploration and vice versa. Examples are plenty, nearest is plea to make fleet carriers jump further. Among replies we can see that increasing jump range would kill exploration, kick in the sack for those who endured old ways exploration and when exploring I want "to feel space is big". Valid opinions, all of them.

But for me travel time =/= exploration.

Long travel time is unnecessary waste of time. For what is exploration? Visiting as many star systems as possible between start and target points? If so why ALL explorer builds have the biggest A-rated FSD with G5 extended range engineering and biggest Guardian booster? You should have stock E-rate for its short jump gives you more sumps per 100 LYs.

So maybe exploration is reaching certain, remote place and sneak out there? Then you want to have the fastest ship available to make whole travel as short as possible. To get as soon as you get so you can focus on main activity instead of spending days actually going there.

Or maybe exploration is... well, what is YOUR definition of exploration. I know space is big and experiencing it's vastness is part of exploration. But it get boring very, very quickly. I've been to the center of the Galaxy, saw Sagittarius' black hole (honestly - not that impressed as I expected to be, hearing how awesome experience it is ti see it). Been to Colonia. Visited few space clouud outside the Bubble. made my share of thousands of LYs. Truly, 5k beyond the Bubble border it starts to get boring, dull and repetitive I want to quit it already. Which I did severeal times.

I like exploration, actually seeing things. But I don't have that much resilience to spend weeks doing nothing but jumping. It's far too imbalanced - effort put to get places vs enjoyment from actually seeing that place. One may say exploration isn't for me if I'm not willing to put effort toward it. Fair enough.

But for me exploration is to SEE places, not to spend ages getting there. For that I require far, and I mean FAR jumping ship. Many of you say having such a ship will kill exploration.

In what way exactly?

• getting to Beagle Point within one play session instead of weeks (regular play) or days (more dedicated)?
• reaching the farthest star at (direction) which currently is unavailable, also beating your record (which is awesome on its own)?
• seing actually more people exploring? According to last census we have explored what... 0.042 or was it 0.0042%?

My final thought - increasing jump range, even by order of magnitude wouldn't change much.
I can truly explore nearby systems while being 65k LYs away in my 500 LYs jump capable ship while you can't get to me in your 50 LYs jump ship in reasonable time.

 

[Brrokk]

Blaze your own trail CMDR. However you want to explore is the right way for you.

 

[Nasc]

I think the biggest jump being made by everyone is skipping over the part where Fleet Commanders aren't even in the game yet.
Aside from that, they'll apparently need a special resource to jump. Assuming stockpiling and repeat jumping isn't an option, it'll probably lead to yo-yoing to and fro to get mats to have it jump again.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Nice points
My main account is based in Colonia, currently I have an area of interest that covers between 4 & 8,000 Ly from my base. I can jump that distance very rapidly thanks to Neutron Stars...
Yes, I flew out to Colonia in the first place (last time in a Corvette with 30Ly jump) so still had the distance to travel, but can explore my area of interest and return to base in a single play session - going back out equally rapidly the next time I wish to 'discover' more.

I normally use a DBX with 67Ly jump for those excursions.

 

[CMDR Reaper]

In this game exploration = travel. But I agree, it is not about the distance. If you have been exploring a lot then you have to visit at least 1000 systems before you find something interesting or you haven't seen before.

 

[CMDR Serra]

If you can jump 80 light years at a time, you still have the option to jump 10 if you want.
The opposite is not true.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

you know if they just stuck a worm hole in each sector (right in the middle of each sector) so we could traverse the map a little easier rather than travelling through dead sectors for 100-200 jumps of nothingness to see that one thing 20kly away it would make alot of happy people.

The McGrew Drive (TMD because we all like TLA's in elite and its an optional module you attach to your FSD)

how it would works - galaxy is already split into sectors;

so enable jumping between sectors to a central system using some materials gathered on planets surface.

say for arguments sake...

10 polonium
20 arsenic

to enable you to traverse the galaxy as so;

blue dots denote other routes, but you can only jump from one sector to the neighboring one at a time, with a cost of materials.

for those who want expanse and a huge time sync and all that jazz, the great thing about the McGrew drive is... you dont have to use it.

Edit*
the other beautiful thing about this system is that it wont effect edge jumping since you can only travel from one sector to another, from set locations, therefore distance is irrelevant and no you cant jump 5kly to that star above the galactic plain because its not the dedicated sector jump point.

in addition perhaps to use the sector jump gates (or drive whatever) perhaps outfitting options are sector drive OR shields, and you cant pre gather the materials required you can only fill after jumping, this will force you to fly shieldless and land shieldless for material refills

i think sector jumping harvesting materials to jump sectors is just another way of achieving travel for those who hate the repeated jump and scoop, if for example sector jumping one at a time to beagle costing a significant amount of surface materials, it almost gives you a purpose to land, i'd also propose the sector drive should be risky tech and damaging your ship greatly with each jump depending on a skill game of some description.

and for passenger mission then using the sector drive will fail the mission much like a scan fails certain passenger mission, if could also open up a new passenger mission for sector travel economy class who of course pay less for the mission

 

[Rubbernuke]

I suppose another way to look at it is to look at the various phases of exploration on Earth- do you want it:

Early, where everything is dark and full of unknowns. You go out and can vanish without trace and no help can come.

Mid, where its a matter of perseverance. Rescue is possible but slow.

Late /now, where you can visit any spot on Earth easily, and its a matter of how you get there that defines things. For example, we can fly over the Arctic but also trek there by foot. Rescue is easy and a matter of days.

Exploration: is visiting systems exploring? If a FC jumps in, do you still have to physically get out and look for things? Looking at it this way, I'd say ED 'exploration' is the third (late) option- or will be with FC. You can go the slow way (legs / low jumping ship) or go via FC up to the system and then get out and do your thing.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Exploration for me is essentially sightseeing.
I need a good range to get to the sights quickly.
But between these destinations, I'll actually have a look what's around to break up the monotony of travel. I usually use neutron stars to hop around the top of bottom of the galaxy. There's loads, and can lead to some difficult navigation, or a dead end. Lol

 

[Shiro Akai]

If you can jump 80 light years at a time, you still have the option to jump 10 if you want.
The opposite is not true.

Exactly my point.

The McGrew Drive (TMD because we all like TLA's in elite and its an optional module you attach to your FSD)

Been thinking about something similar as well. Speed A-B transport, then low jump range exploring.

Other solution is to make jumps more entertaining and skill based.

Idea:
Explorationships have no range limit per se. You pick a destination and enter hyper space. But instead of linear tunnel you have interdiction-like mini game. Your target escapes, you try to stay on target. The longer you stay on target, the further you finally jump. The longer final jump is, the longer your nav comp calculates your location (sort of CD). Less skilled CMDR will make lots of jumps, more skilled will travel far.

Probably impossible to implement since jumping is mere loading screen. But at least exploration would require some effort.

 

[Earthshine]

It's tricky I suppose. I know that 50LY is alot farther than 5LY, but these scales are so beyond my comprehension that I don't really understand them. I'd imagine alot of people are the same. So instead they are expressed in terms of how long it takes to get there. I get that, but at the same time I think that all journeys are either ones you undertake to get somewhere or ones you undertake for the journey itself.

The problem comes when both of those journey types share the same restriction: travel time. If you're doing the former type then travel time is bad, hence the neutron star boost; increasing FSD ranges since the games release etc. If you're doing the latter type then it isn't so bad, you're ambling around the galaxy checking things out as you go, and that's fine. But I seriously doubt most of the journeys undertaken in this game are the latter type.

If jump ranges were increased significantly I would be pleased. I wouldn't mind having to put more effort into collecting fuel, or whatever restrictive mechanic could be made up, because I believe that it's important that there are restrictions because they inform the choices you make. My fortitude for repeating the same few actions just seems a bit of a...cheap...restriction. Additionally, I reckon it should be easy to travel around the bubble, and out of the bubble, but more difficult thereafter.

 

[Lunchmoney]

why ALL explorer builds have the biggest A-rated FSD with G5 extended range engineering and biggest Guardian booster? You should have stock E-rate for its short jump gives you more sumps per 100 LYs.

I jump small distances when exploring, and I go a long way.
But when I've had enough and just want to get home then a large fsd distance is nice to have.

 

[Florenus]

I'm against increasing the range of Fleet Carriers not because it has something to do with exploration. It has nothing to do with that.

I want to feel that the galaxy is huge - increasing jump ranges reduces that feeling. That's it.

This is a game - game world is virtual. All distances are actually zero. The only way to make some place "feel distant" is to make getting there take some time. The more time it requires, the bigger distance "feel".

 

[Vandaahl]

Long travel time is unnecessary waste of time.

I disagree with that. Whether you like long travel time or not is pretty subjective, but long travel could be the means to justify a cause. It could give a sense of achievement, it could cause a mission reward to be higher, it could be the reason why you skip a mission because you don't have time for it. The reason to have long travel time is as valid as having the need for x chemical distilleries to engineer stuff.

I see you mention you find things boring because you seen it before. Being bored should be an incentive to do something else, instead of removing the things you deem boring. If you start creating shortcuts things start to get messy imo.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

The journey should be the destination. How long it takes doesn't matter so much. What matters is that enough should happen on the journey so it's a compelling one to tell about. If it's just pressing "J" key 500 times - that may be hard to achieve.

 

[Earthshine]

Idea:
Explorationships have no range limit per se. You pick a destination and enter hyper space. But instead of linear tunnel you have interdiction-like mini game. Your target escapes, you try to stay on target. The longer you stay on target, the further you finally jump. The longer final jump is, the longer your nav comp calculates your location (sort of CD). Less skilled CMDR will make lots of jumps, more skilled will travel far.

Probably impossible to implement since jumping is mere loading screen. But at least exploration would require some effort.

Hmmmmmm. I kind of feel that the ability to perform well at a minigame isn't the kind of mechanic that fits the ethos that has been established thus far for travelling/exploration gameplay. Skill and combat makes sense and is fine; reactions; rapid decision making etc. However, I feel that when it comes to travel/exploration it should be preparation and careful consideration that wins the day (Of course I'm aware of loadouts etc. affecting combat, but that isn't the heart of it I don't think).

I still play FE2....and what strikes me as a contrast is how difficult it is to travel around in it. You really need to plan, and figure out if that mission is even doable before you accept it. Not because you don't have time because of real life, but because of where you need to go, how you can get there and what ship and equipment you have. I like that, and I prefer that over EDs approach. ED has made it easy to travel long distances in terms of game mechanics, it's only hard because you have to endure actually doing it!

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

As an explorer, I need a big jump range to reach remote, otherwise unexplorable locations, or to get to the region of space I want to explore quick so I can explore what I was actually planning to explore. Big jump range also means less fuel usage on short jumps. I simply cannot relate to the point of view "more jump range kills exploration" and frankly I plain don't understand it. An explorer will want to own a ship that is reliable, self-sustaining and repairing and that gets him everywhere he wants to go as well as stay out in the black as long as possible. Saying improvements in jump range kills exploration is like saying... well it's like frowning upon any technological advancement, and looking like an old fart mumbling "back in my time we didn't have this or that, and we did just fine, if not better!!"

Noone will be able to do anything against the fact the galaxy will feel smaller and smaller with technological improvement, as little as any IRL explorer before could do anything against the fact that earth became smaller and smaller to mankind. Eventually, perhaps even in this game, this will enable us to reach other galaxies, just like IRL developments may enable us to reach other planets.

I agree though that some confuse travel with exploration. But that is what the game itself does in the first place. You get rank increase and money for exploration just by jumping from A to B. I make a few millions a week just by saving and refueling stranded commanders. I totally agree that THIS is not exploration. When I explore, I pick destinations, I scan thoroughly, I land and drive etc... But wether I scan or not on the way there doesn't change anything to the fact I am exploring.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I still play FE2....and what strikes me as a contrast is how difficult it is to travel around in it. You really need to plan, and figure out if that mission is even doable before you accept it. Not because you don't have time because of real life, but because of where you need to go, how you can get there and what ship and equipment you have. I like that, and I prefer that over EDs approach. ED has made it easy to travel long distances in terms of game mechanics, it's only hard because you have to endure actually doing it!

Yes, this is definitely one thing that has changed a lot as the series has gone on.

Elite 1: you carry enough fuel for one jump, refuelling requires a long in-system trip to a station or star during which things can happen. Crossing from one end of the (tiny, by the standards of the sequels) map to the other therefore takes hours in-game, most of which has stuff happening to you (pirates, etc.)

FE2/FFE: you can carry enough fuel for several jumps (tens, in the bigger ships), though once that's out you need to take a trip in-system to a station (if available) or a gas giant or star, which takes a few days of accelerated time, and the jumps take a week of accelerated time. After a year without servicing, your hyperdrive breaks, putting a definite - and fairly small - upper limit on exploration distances. Military drives allow quicker in-bubble travel at the cost of being useless for exploration (the Class 4 aside, of course). Crossing inhabited space takes several months of in-game time and probably still a few hours of out-of-game time.

Elite Dangerous: you can carry enough fuel for several jumps (hundreds, if you fill a big ship with extra fuel tanks). You arrive conveniently next to the star for scooping up more fuel, which is a fast process. Jump ranges are large enough to cross the entirety of inhabited space in ten minutes with a fast ship, or to reach the far galactic rim in eight hours.


I think the big problem with travel is that in the previous games, you spent most of your travel time in-system, looking for refuelling opportunities, getting up close to stars (risky!) or gas giants to scoop fuel in uninhabited systems, or fighting off pirates (far more common and aggressive than in Elite Dangerous) in inhabited systems. You spent a few seconds now and then looking at loading screens. So travel was itself interesting. And sure, you still took the fastest ship you could if you were going a long way.

In Elite Dangerous you can travel easier and faster and further than ever before by several orders of magnitude, to the extent that if the bubble only had 100 systems the gameplay basically wouldn't change much apart from meeting other players more often. But because you can scoop up all the fuel you need for the next jump as you go around the star and your drive cools, you spend over half this travel time especially on long-distance trips just staring at the loading screens. Similarly supercruise means that most of the time in-system you won't be attacked, or if you do, probably only once (which isn't really an 'attack' if you can beat the easy NPC interdictions). So travel has gone from "the game" to "that boring bit between the rare game"

It's far too late now, but if travel was way slower and tougher people would probably complain less about it. Explorers would be jumping uncertain as to whether the next system would have a gas giant to scoop from or if they'd have to risk sun-scooping and the inevitable heat damage. They'd spend more time appreciating the systems they were in because they might not see another one (exploration payouts would need to be instant rather than "on return", of course). Meanwhile in the bubble, people would be too busy being shot at to complain about sitting in supercruise being boring. Obviously the rest of the game would need rebalancing a lot to make it not just really difficult and have the per-trip profit much higher since you'd be making a couple of trips an hour rather than getting most of the way to Colonia in that time.

 

[The Nephilim]

I think I see myself more as a carographer than an explorer. I map every unexplored system I go to but never go off to view the objects in the system.

 

[Earthshine]

It's far too late now, but if travel was way slower and tougher people would probably complain less about it. Explorers would be jumping uncertain as to whether the next system would have a gas giant to scoop from or if they'd have to risk sun-scooping and the inevitable heat damage. They'd spend more time appreciating the systems they were in because they might not see another one (exploration payouts would need to be instant rather than "on return", of course). Meanwhile in the bubble, people would be too busy being shot at to complain about sitting in supercruise being boring. Obviously the rest of the game would need rebalancing a lot to make it not just really difficult and have the per-trip profit much higher since you'd be making a couple of trips an hour rather than getting most of the way to Colonia in that time.

That's exactly what I hoped for when ED was announced. So close!