I think you're confusing TRAVEL with EXPLORATION

[Kenneth McGrew]

As I said, opinions will vary, and they are all valid. In this case it is the perception of great distance I would not want to lose. Doing a standard MMO quick travel destroys that sense of great distance. I love that there are few shortcuts in Elite. But accept that others will see that as wasted time and grind.

i think sector jumping harvesting materials to jump sectors is just another way of achieving travel for those who hate the repeated jump and scoop, if for example sector jumping one at a time to beagle costing a significant amount of surface materials, it almost gives you a purpose to land, i'd also propose the sector drive should be risky tech and blowing your ship up is quite possible so its not all reward.

maybe even the outfitting options are sector drive OR shields, and you cant pre gather the materials required you can only fill after jumping, this will force you to fly shieldless and land shieldless for material refills

i just think there is a more exciting & risky ways to travel somewhere rather than staring at loading screens im not advocating we charge a sector drive and travel from sol --> Beagle in one jump that would be crazy, and yeah opinions will vary but something needs shaking up.

 

[Ozric]

Ah the age old debate.

Though I'm not really sure what your issue is. You get bored of exploring things quickly, but say you need a huge jump range so you can go really far away to explore things. But then you just have further to travel back when you get bored Not all ships have Guardian Boosters, I spent the first couple of years of this game with only a 35Ly jump range on my Asp and went to Beagle Point with it in that time, I only got a Guardian Booster when 3.4 dropped last December. Long jump ranges aren't needed for Exploration unless you want to reach the very outlying stars, especially since Synthesis was added. And Exploration isn't about getting as far as you can in a short space of time.

Exploration is pretty much what you want to get from the game to be honest. For me it's exploring systems to find interesting views, or strange planets/stars, or more recently various anomalies. You set yourself personal goals and go out to achieve them. On the first day of Gamma I dropped my weapons from my Cobra, brought a fuel scoop and left for the Pleiades Cluster, simply because it's my favourite object in the night sky. With an 11Ly jump range I had no idea how long it would take me to get there and I didn't really care, I wasn't doing it to be the first there. Just like my second journey out to the Crab Nebula, I knew I wasn't the first there but I wanted to visit and I was the first person to document the journey.

Sometimes it's something as simple as finding a system with 4 huge super bright stars in it, and one solitary planet. I thought it looked like an awesome place when I first discovered it many years ago, 42,000Ly from the bubble, the sort of place my character might retire to one day. Then when Horizons was added, the planet was landable and so I went back. Then later on it took on a more significant importance to me.

Spoiler

More recently with the addition of the Codex I thought it would be nice to get one record reported in it, just for posterity. Well I found 1, then 6, then I realised there was a gap in the White Dwarf market... Well my ship has a new tag 'White Dwarf Hunter' and I now have 110 records reported into the Codex, 77 of which are White Dwarfs

Now I am back to just meandering my way around, looking for interesting places. So many people are focused on the need for big jump ranges, but really for exploration as long as your jump range is above 30Ly you won't have any issues 95% of the time, and obviously people have done huge journeys with far less. But again, jump range is for the travelling not the exploring. They are not the same thing, neither are they mutually exclusive.

i think sector jumping harvesting materials to jump sectors is just another way of achieving travel for those who hate the repeated jump and scoop.

I hate combat, if I collect enough material can I just count it the same as having killed loads of ships?

Exploration is spotting something in the star scape, on the way and changing course to go see what it is.

Oooh yes, very much this. I have done this many times. The pain in the backside is trying to work out which direction it is in, by targeting random stars on the Galaxy Map until you find one that's in the right direction

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

I hate combat, if I collect enough material can I just count it the same as having killed loads of ships?

Planetside materials or mining - non of that manufactured nonsense thats for bubble dwellers

 

[Wrecked]

100% Agree with your assessment of distances and the arbitrary limitation on jump range.

Nothing kills my will to play like having to spend 30 minutes straight jumping to get where I want to go. It's ridiculous and a waste of time.

I can still jump 10,000LY in one jump and "explore" 100 stars within 20LY of that entry point. It's still an exploration of an area I wanted to explore, I just wasn't required to waste my time getting there.

If you just LOVE jumping 10LY at a time to go exploring then GREAT! I just think the rest of us should have an option to play our way as well.

For trade and missions within the bubble, you should be able to jump directly to your destination. Jumping 15 times to get somewhere is not gameplay. It doesn't increase risk, you can easily escape NPC interdictions, and if people want to pirate, you can still do that at popular ports.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Travel isn't exploration. Quite right. But without travel exploration loses a dimension. There are locations in the galaxy map which are hard to reach, either because it takes a long time traveling towards it, or there are few stars available at that location, so you would have to use jumponium or neutrons to be able to reach your destination.

There is quite a difference between exploring in the bubble's back yard or traveling to the core and explore there. The sense of distance from the Bubble is created by travel.

There used to be an enjoyment I got out of traveling the galaxy, namely checking out systems I passed through, noticing noticable things and checking them out. The distractions that were thrown on my path made the journey worth it. Because it was often indeed the journey that made the trip memorable, not the destination. Now the FSS is introduced, I really don't care about the journey anymore, since it became a chore. And thus, exploration is no longer enjoyable for me.

Take Beagle Point for instance. Place the exact same system 100LY from the Bubble and it becomes a regular, run of the mill, cookie cutter system. No one would look at it twice. But ... factor in the 80 KLY journey, complete with finding (and losing) my way through the Abyss, it becomes an epic journey.

So ... I wonder. Why would the OP want to go to Beagle Point? There's not much to SEE there.

 

[Earthshine]

Long jump ranges aren't needed for Exploration unless you want to reach the very outlying stars, especially since Synthesis was added.

I don't think alot of the objections are really about jump ranges, I think they are about what's involved in getting somewhere. Greater jump ranges are a means to an end - namely reducing monotony.

As an occasional player I play for maybe 30 - 60 minutes at a time, maybe averaging 4-5 times a month. I'd like to visit some of the far-reaching locations in the game but I can't face the journey to get there because I know it will take me a very long time and I won't enjoy it. Is it my problem? Sure. But I don't think it unreasonable to aspire to an alternative system that permits players like me to visit places without undertaking what to many is a repetitive and monotonous series of actions.

I have no problem with replacing that "grind" with another one. Everyone has things that they like doing and don't mind repeating. I can happily drive around in the SRV for hours on one planet shooting rocks for example. So I'm kind of an advocate for alternatives without compromising on the amount of effort required to achieve the same result.

And Exploration isn't about getting as far as you can in a short space of time.

Exploration is pretty much what you want to get from the game to be honest.

Isn't that a bit contradictory? I'm sure there's been people who have raced their way around the galactic rim, pretty sure they cared about jump distance! But I can sort of see that you could consider such players as not being explorers and more travellers, so maybe you are right.

 

[Wrecked]

Personally I like the long distances and travel times. It gives going to remote places across the galaxy seem like an epic journey that needs planning and patience. Indeed I would love to see more resource planning added, like food and water supplied on your ship....

See the beauty of allowing people to play their way is that you could still jump 20LY at a time and experience what you perceive as scale. Those of us that perceive this activity as a waste of time could get on with what we actually want to do in the game.

Jumping around the galaxy is the lynchpin of the whole game. It should offer more flexibility to the player to give greater access to content. Right now, the need to spend large amounts of time jumping around presents a major barrier to content.

I'd love to have gone and fought thargoids 600LYs from the bubble, but the barrier of travel in a combat build prevented me from doing it. Even if it was 18 jumps. It just wasn't worth it to me. Let's get to the content.... staring at a loading 18 times in a row is not content.
I'd love to experience the Colonia content, but the massive timesink barrier of travel time is preventing me from doing it.

Some people like the journey and others like playing the game.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

Having a carrier or a ship that can jump extremely long distances, doesn't mean one HAS to jump extremely long distances. Though my modified explorer built conda can acheive up to 60ly's, I only utilize it for bubble hopping in which case the distances are rarely more than 25. That said, It's nice being able to have the extra distance available if and when I choose for instance to gather materials in an area some 1700 ly's from Shinrarta.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Insta win button yeah....

 

[Wrecked]

Australia is 15,201Km away and a ~24hr flight with a stop over

Australia is still 15,201Km away but would take 153 hours or ~6 days in a car to drive there (without stopping, and of course a ferry across the shortest bits of sea)

Australia is sill 15,201Km away but would take 56 days to sail there (without stopping & weather dependent)

Australia is still 15,201Km away but took this guy 5 years 3 months and one day to walk there.

Meet the man who walked 25,000 kilometres from the UK to Australia

It took British Indian adventurer Arjun Singh Bhogal five years to walk from the UK to Australia, trekking over 25,000 kilometres on foot for the charity WaterAid. Now he's about to embark on another project in Australia.

www.sbs.com.au

point is; regardless of how you get there its still 15,201Km away even if you teleport there in 2 seconds, no-one enjoys sitting in a metal tube for 24hrs much like no-one enjoys jump honking 65kly, otherwise you would have a stock E class FSD or walk to Australia like the other millions of people who walk there each year... oh wait.... they dont.

and the best thing about it is... you wouldn't even have to fit this "optional" device

EXCELLENT Example of the OPs point! Well done!

This also highlights the beauty of options. What those who think so linearly about this issue do not seem to comprehend is that having the ability to hop on an airplane does not take away your ability to walk there if that is what you chose.

 

[Ozric]

I can still jump 10,000LY in one jump and "explore" 100 stars within 20LY of that entry point. It's still an exploration of an area I wanted to explore, I just wasn't required to waste my time getting there.

What's the point? What's the difference between exploring 100 stars 100Ly from the bubble and 100 stars 10,000Ly from the bubble?

You have no idea what you're going to find in either one. If it's the area in particular then you are wanting to explore a specific place without doing any work to achieve that. I imagine you also think there's no need to permit lock systems, as if you want to get to Sol why can't you just get there without having to waste your time getting the permit.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Australia is sill 15,201Km away but would take 56 days to sail there (without stopping & weather dependent)


point is; regardless of how you get there its still 15,201Km away even if you teleport there in 2 seconds, no-one enjoys sitting in a metal tube for 24hrs much like no-one enjoys jump honking 65kly, otherwise you would have a stock E class FSD or walk to Australia like the other millions of people who walk there each year... oh wait.... they dont.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I own a couple boats, and I very much happen to LOVE driving them, sitting at the helm, rolling on the open sea, nothing to see for miles in any direction except more open sea (or the occasional freighter or another yacht coming or going). 56 days you say? Sounds absolutely delightful to me. Probably would sound just as good to anyone else with salt in their veins. I just wish I could take a 160-day vacation from work, to sail to Australia - 112 days sailing time, plus time to see the place, catch a show at the Sydney Opera House, tour about a bit, resupply, refuel and get back.

That would be amazing to me.

Sailors? Captains? Back me up here.

There really is something to be said for the phrase: "It's all about the journey, not the destination." that you either understand or you don't.

 

[Earthshine]

There really is something to be said for the phrase: "It's all about the journey, not the destination." that you either understand or you don't.

I think that's his point.

Some of us don't understand it, but it doesn't mean we can't take a plane instead.

 

[Marklar_]

You don't need much range to do actual exploration, but you still need to get to the area that you want to explore and back to the bubble again so the more range the better.

 

[Wrecked]

What's the point? What's the difference between exploring 100 stars 100Ly from the bubble and 100 stars 10,000Ly from the bubble?

Thank you, my point exactly. Why have an arbitrary limitation on jump distance if it's all the same?

You have no idea what you're going to find in either one. If it's the area in particular then you are wanting to explore a specific place without doing any work to achieve that. I imagine you also think there's no need to permit lock systems, as if you want to get to Sol why can't you just get there without having to waste your time getting the permit.

You're correct. Permit locking is laziness in game design. Giving you a grind wall before you can go experience Sol!?!? Why?

Why can't you go into a permit locked system illegally? Give you a way to play as a real smuggler to unscrupulous outposts in systems in which you should not be. Constantly avoiding the law. That would have been awesome. There were so many ways to make this a more engaging system, but no, they chose the standard tool.... GRIND

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Thats like having fast travel option in say Euro Trucking simulator....

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

EXCELLENT Example of the OPs point! Well done!

This also highlights the beauty of options. What those who think so linearly about this issue do not seem to comprehend is that having the ability to hop on an airplane does not take away your ability to walk there if that is what you chose.

Which one would a tourist interested in spending two weeks pay for a one week vacation there take. Which one would a retired adventure who has nothing but time and money take. Well on occasion they may both play ED. And I'd assume that they would play similar to their actual life styles.

 

[IamMe]

For me best exploration gameplay would be not jump range or distance traveled but things and places to find with dangers and survival aspects on that journey.

But since there are no atmo landings (basic lifeless atmos, earth likes or water worlds) i don't find it encouraging enough to be dedicated explorer.
Variety and diversity of enviroment and challenges they provide is the key exploration feature imo.

Also to make exploration exciting some survival aspects to be implemented, such as random scavanger/goid attacks that would make you run and dangers from space phenomena that would damage your ship so you'll be forced to find and land on planets to gather and produce repair material.
If we ever get basic atmos and water worlds exploration for sure will be my main occupation.
Ahh and space legs for sure will benefit in that regard!

 

[Good Whiskey]

Exploration is not about the time it took to get there, or the process of scanning planets, or the setting up of screenshots, or the views from the cockpit, or putting your name on a system or a planet, or sustaining yourself in the void with your AFMU and repair limpets, or skimming the surface of distant worlds in a fighter, or doing it alone, or with friends, or the feeling you get from being somewhere that few or none have been before.

It's all of those things.

20ly. 50ly. 80ly. 500ly. These numbers are all ultimately irrelevant unless we are determined to apply some timesink metric to the profession, which is in my opinion is silly. As @Brrokk said on page 1, "However you want to explore is the right way for you." At some point, we're just going to have to be happy with that notion, and go with it.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I think that's his point.

Some of us don't understand it, but it doesn't mean we can't take a plane instead.

I've only ever flown a plane.. well, twice. Not a licensed pilot, but I can say that it simply doesn't compare. It's short-cutting the journey for the destination.

I'm not saying anyone is "doing it wrong", if they're jumping 100 light years at a time, or 10 light years at a time. There are plenty of people who seek out and scan only systems with 5 or more planets, where the 3rd planet is an ammonia world with a retrograde orbit. Whatever. My point is that they won't know if they've missed 99 such systems in their 100 system jump, because they've missed those other 99 systems.