Suggestion: Remove No-Fire Zone, Redundant

[sandkid]

Title says it all: I suggest we remove the no-fire zone from all aspects of the game.

• NFZ is redundant
• Fines and Bounties for friendly/illegal fire already cover the NFZ's principal penalty (could increase them to keep the credit sink in balance)
• Makes little lore sense: all other station rules are based on 'getting caught' while doing something, such as speeding and hitting, or ramming and doing damage. Elite assumes a great deal of responsibility on the commander, so why is the NFZ a thing?

There shouldn't be a penalty or response to hardpoints deployed or to weapons fire unless it is illegal in its targeting, plain and simple.

• This would instantly eliminate fiascos like the Gnosis and the current Aegis CZ penalizing commanders for defending a location legally
• It doesn't prevent crime response in any way as other triggers already exist

Thought and/or support appreciated!

 

[zombieapocalypse]

What about in lawless/anarchy systems?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Yes - the current name and implementation just causes confusion.

You already aren't allowed to shoot Clean ships, NFZ or not. The fine for shooting at wanted ships is tiny and has no meaningful deterrent to doing so in the vast majority of cases, and it isn't particularly a useful thing to deter.

However, one other thing the NFZ does implement is speeding fines/bounties for collisions - so, I'd suggest a slight modification:

1) Remove the fine for firing in the NFZ
2) Rename the NFZ "flight control zone" or "speed restricted zone" or similar
3) Keep the "Strict NFZ" inside the docking bay of rotating stations.

 

[Drelthar]

What about in lawless/anarchy systems?

What about it? Makes zero difference.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

What about it? Makes zero difference.

Fly into an anarchy/lawless jurisdiction, start attacking another ship within a station's NFZ and then see what happens.

 

[Drelthar]

Fly into an anarchy/lawless jurisdiction, start attacking another ship within a station's NFZ and then see what happens.

Doesn't matter, the suggestion is to remove the fines for firing in the no fire zone.

Punishment for actually hitting something would remain.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Doesn't matter, the suggestion is to remove the fines for firing in the no fire zone.

Punishment for actually hitting something would remain.

Not in a lawless jurisdiction because they don't have laws outside of the NFZ.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Lawless jurisdictions don't have NFZs at all, except for the one actually inside the docking bay.

You can already shoot who you like outside an Anarchy station, so long as you don't hit the station itself or any of its ships.

 

[Drelthar]

Lawless jurisdictions don't have NFZs at all, except for the one actually inside the docking bay.

You can already shoot who you like outside an Anarchy station, so long as you don't hit the station itself or any of its ships.

Cheers, I wasn't 100% sure so didn't post that. Thought that was the case though

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Lawless jurisdictions don't have NFZs at all, except for the one actually inside the docking bay.

You can already shoot who you like outside an Anarchy station, so long as you don't hit the station itself or any of its ships.

Ah okay. I stand corrected.

 

[Drelthar]

Not in a lawless jurisdiction because they don't have laws outside of the NFZ.

By the way, sweet profile pic. Mercenary from chaos engine. Nice.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

By the way, sweet profile pic. Mercenary from chaos engine. Nice.

Thanks! I still spend a lot of time playing Amiga games

 

[Drelthar]

Thanks! I still spend a lot of time playing Amiga games

Get battle squadron out.

Hm... Think I went off topic.

I actually can't see any issues with the OP's proposal, though FD probably can, not just in code, but also, they paid for that no fire zone voice acting!

Just remove the fines and leave the no fire zone in, keeps the voice acting and text, then it's just fluff (like a lot of other ATR stuff) but doesn't cause problems with cool stuff like AX combat/pirate attacks near stations/megaships.

 

[sandkid]

Fly into an anarchy/lawless jurisdiction, start attacking another ship within a station's NFZ and then see what happens.

This kind of proves my point...lol

There shouldn't be a NFZ.
Especially in a lawless/anarchy system.

Because, you know, it's lawless.

 

[GroG79]

Yes.. wait no.. This is a silly idea. So I can shoot my gun in front of the supermarket if I do not hit anybody?

 

[CMDR Junagu]

I reckon we should just have firing anywhere, even in the stations, even in your own ship, c'mon, gloves off.

 

[sandkid]

Yes.. wait no.. This is a silly idea. So I can shoot my gun in front of the supermarket if I do not hit anybody?

You can't shoot your gun in front of the supermarket but...

• You can maliciously scan cargo and systems in a "non combat zone"
• You can smuggle goods and persons from a station that doesn't bother to check them before they're already aboard
• You can speed at any speed, just don't hit (and potentially kill someone) and you're ok
• You can ram and collide with any ship so long as 1) you aren't speeding and 2) you deal no damage, paint and courtesy don't count

Point being, literally everything else regarding 'station rules' is gloves off. If you aren't doing damage, they will at best warn you and that is it. Except for hardpoints (which in and of itself isn't anything at all) and firing weapons. Firing weapons is the real issue because:

• Pirate attacking you? Better hope the Police solve that. Self Defense is illegal in a galaxy that allows individuals to own vessels capable of mass murder.
• Station under attack? Better hope the Police solve that. Samaritans are illegal even when the station begs you to help them. Must be the Police Union?
• Found an illegal vessel? Better hope the Police solve that. Good citizenship will be punished in a galaxy that regularly rewards bounty hunters.

No fire zones make absolutely no sense when considering the context of Elite Dangerous.
It's not a silly idea in the least.
No fire zones are a silly idea.

 

[varonica]

No fire zones make absolutely no sense when considering the context of Elite Dangerous.

What context would that be? I have no idea what your context is so you will need to explain that bit in more detail.

 

[Zcorruption]

Here's a question: if I'm outside the no fire zone and I shoot someone who is inside the no fire zone would I be attacked by system security for it in an anarchy system?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Here's a question: if I'm outside the no fire zone and I shoot someone who is inside the no fire zone would I be attacked by system security for it in an anarchy system?

If you're in an Anarchy system, there is no NFZ, so no, you won't be attacked (so long as you don't miss and hit the station by mistake)

If you're in a non-Anarchy system, and you're shooting a Wanted ship:
- if you're inside the NFZ (regardless of where the Wanted ship is) this is a Fine offence, and you won't get attacked by security (unless you already had a bounty from previous offences, of course)
- if you're outside the NFZ (regardless of where the Wanted ship is) this is legal

If you're in a non-Anarchy system, and you're shooting a Clean ship, you get a bounty even if both of you are 10,000 Ls from the nearest NFZ, so it makes no difference at all (unless you're in range of the station guns).