Powerplay Faction: Felicia Winters Powerplay Solo vs. Open
- Thread starter Mechman43
- Start date
I agree, I probably shouldve taken a 'dont feed the trolls' approach. It is good to point out their tactics every once in a while thoughThen you don't need to respond to it
Hopefully the thread isnt fully derailed and can get back on topic now eh?
..Hopefully..
I agree, I probably shouldve taken a 'dont feed the trolls' approach. It is good to point out their tactics every once in a while though
Hopefully the thread isnt fully derailed and can get back on topic now eh?
..Hopefully..
Ok cool, because for a while there i was pretty convinced you were trolling me.
I agree, I probably shouldve taken a 'dont feed the trolls' approach. It is good to point out their tactics every once in a while though
Hopefully the thread isnt fully derailed and can get back on topic now eh?
..Hopefully..
I think FDs mistake was in thinking Powerplay is a singular system, rather than seeing it as a (possible) chain that could have been broken down into tasks between modes. Imagine:
MULTI MODE: control systems issue missions that reward you in money and units of Powerplay materials (that are added to a central store)
OPEN: open players take from that central store and deliver it fighting others in a free for all PvP style
Mm, usually in the modes debates it seems both sides fervently believe theyre embodying the essence of Burke (as it were): “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good .. people .. to do nothing.” and since no manner of relayed experience or clever points will persuade either side that the other isnt some form of evil, a solution like 'nuke's that sidesteps marginalisation is probly the best way forward, since Powerplay reaally does need some kind of fix, or to be 'put down'.
Its ironic really, since Powerplay is exactly what ED needs to go above the BGS as far as confrontation, and they sit doing little with it.
As always 2020 will be the marker for the future. Lets hope FD have stored up a nice surprise.
I like the aim of it, but wouldnt a central store be very liable to 5C interference?
It would using current rules. In my head I half imagined that haulers who get destroyed or toss the cargo have a penalty- on each bad event the amount you can pick up is halved, until its a single unit for a set amount of time, a bit like a reverse notoriety (since the power does not trust you enough with any more).
It means:
Your allocation is set by your 'trust' value (starts at 10). This acts as a multiplier for your allocation.
Your allocation goes up if you deliver your cargo to capital successfully. This multiplier also acts as a money multiplier- so a full 10 is LOADSADOSH
Your allocation goes down on destruction or you trying to be clever giving it away.
Keep on being silly your trust value might trigger an auto depledging and deploy correctional officers who want to talk to you / make your limbs modular baseball bats.
Blimey- have I solved 5C fort hauling?
Huh, who woulda thunk !
Altho..
does it adequately deal with edge cases like those free console multi-accounts ? Would 20 accounts going from max rep to 0 be sufficient to drain a central pool? If not, what use is the solo/pg element of that really? if Open haulers can pretty much take it for granted there will be enough in the pool to fill their cargo bay regardless?Also, if unimpeded hauling is too well rewarded for the individual, it is likely to increase the spread of nefarious router fiddling & such. Im pretty sure the ratio of people willing to do everything within the rules to succeed in a game is a lot higher than of those willing to cheat, but incentivising cheating doesnt seem like a good move imo.
Maybe im seeing exploits everywhere this morning. Wish I knew of some for fasttracking RL spring-cleaning. Goddamn climate change. Used to be able to put ioff springcleans for months yet
Huh, who woulda thunk !
Altho..
Also, if unimpeded hauling is too well rewarded for the individual, it is likely to increase the spread of nefarious router fiddling & such. Im pretty sure the ratio of people willing to do everything within the rules to succeed in a game is a lot higher than the those willing to cheat, but incentivising cheating doesnt seem like a good move imo.
Maybe im seeing exploits everywhere this morning. Wish I knew of some for fasttracking RL spring-cleaning. Goddamn climate change. Used to be able to put ioff springcleans for months yet
No, this is robust problem solving- its no good being timid when designing idiot proof systems.
I had intended the above to be open only, with the mission / gathering part in solo (because then you can do it as much as you like, but for the big payouts (to pay for rebuys etc) you go open, and that to have a big payday you need to deliver it. So with 5C self destructing it would be self limiting because after three failed attempts you'd have an allocation of 1, and keep on doing silly things you get automatically depledged and hunted.
You can't over deliver because at 100% (unless mega UM) the payout is 0. So you can't farm it either.
The only way to make it 3 modes safe is to put in seriously powerful NPCs to hunt you. But we all know where that goes....
Huh, who woulda thunk !
Altho..
Also, if unimpeded hauling is too well rewarded for the individual, it is likely to increase the spread of nefarious router fiddling & such. Im pretty sure the ratio of people willing to do everything within the rules to succeed in a game is a lot higher than of those willing to cheat, but incentivising cheating doesnt seem like a good move imo.
Maybe im seeing exploits everywhere this morning. Wish I knew of some for fasttracking RL spring-cleaning. Goddamn climate change. Used to be able to put ioff springcleans for months yet
I'm going to rewrite my proposal with this in, its too good not to
If a new pledge had to contribute say 750 merits to the pool first to activate their trust rating & losing your collection quota to 1 meant you had to replenish the Pool yourself by the equivalent amount to regain the allowance.. that deals with 5C merit-pool wastage sufficiently imo.
Plus it produces more meaningful blockade actions as well. It means a lost hauler results in only hauling say half (?) the amount on the next run. Thats a real economic efficiency impact, plus a few rebuys without success means you gotta get back to missions to get a decent PP hauling total back.
(As a beneficial side effect, if you have a hauling ship destroyed by the enemy, it encourages using a tankier ship for the purpose as well next time around, since you can only load so much cargo so may as well fit HRPs etc, which is a prod in the right direction for a player in that situation)
On another note, what measures in this proposal would deal with potential botting ? Any new strategy mechanics cant be blind to that issue ofc..
I'll post it here when I've finished writing it- so far its magnificent.
Here is what I'm heading for:
This is a V.2 of my multi mode concept to take into account more ideas and round out everything and add more anti 5C measures.
Problem: Powerplay does not function well across the three modes, with antagonism between solo / PG and Open players being a drag on progress. The following offers Powerplay to both groups.
Idea: Powerplay is split into two halves: one half is Solo /PG, the other Open only. The Solo/ PG part is mission based and contributes to accumulating fort materials for the Open only half to deliver. So, rather than make all modes try to do the same things you provide each mode with specific jobs that amplify that modes potential.
This outline uses all of Sandros ideas plus a few more based on the 3.x BGS rework.
-----------------
General (shared across all modes)
Both sets of players share ranks and perks as they are now.
Merits are split as a concept. Players have the value Trust (see later) cargo in the game or combat merits (from killing PP NPCs).
Solo and PG players can vote as normal, thus they have an equal say in a powers choices.
The allocation increment between ranks is removed. It starts at a flat 10 and multiplied by your Trust value (see below). Important: allocations are not time dependent but instead dependent on delivery- i.e. you get a fixed amount to move at the time of collection and no more until its delivered.
Perks are unlocked based on your trust value (see below).
Trust
Powerplay players have a new variable to manage- 'Trust'. It acts similar to rep with factions and replaces personal merits. The more positive outcomes you have doing tasks across all modes, the higher this value gets. It acts as a multiplier for rewards, as well as your allocation (see later sections for details).
The trust value ranges from 10 (maximum) to -9 (no trust) depending on activity. At full trust (10) all personal perks are unlocked in a similar way to rank 5 currently.
But, if your trust gets too low through failing certain tasks repeatedly, you are automatically unpledged and treated as a defector- i.e. that power sends assassins after you.
Automatic unpledging occurs after 2 BGS 'ticks' at -9. This is an anti 5C measure, so that positive actions reward, while being 5C gets you kicked out and punished.
New pledges have to undergo a mission to prove their loyalty, and once complete get a message from your glorious leader allowing them to be a pledge. You start with a low trust score, and must work to improve it. Missions might be to stock a control systems depot (see below) or kill x amount of rival PP players / NPCs.
Note, trust will decay slowly over time. However this is gradual (and not as harsh as it is now- it would be 10% each week, not 50%.) Please note also that regaining trust points is free and as easy as doing missions or delivering cargo (which is free).
Pledging / Unpledging
You can unpledge at any time. You must wait 7 BGS ticks before you can repledge again, and you start with a neutral trust value.
You can also defect instantly- however your trust value with your new power is set very low at -8 since you are traitorous untustworthy scum, and your old power will hunt you for 7 days with G5 assassins, as well as having your marker show up in Open as a traitor for the same amount of time. In short, defecting is dangerous. If you are auto unpledged for being at -9 trust for 2 BGS ticks, you are hunted for 14 BGS ticks and subject to the same caveats as defectors (visible in map etc).
Note, it would therefore be in a players own interests if they are not active in Powerplay to depledge rather than let it lapse
Voting
Along with Sandros weighting a pledge can only vote if their trust value is 9 or 10. This makes 5C have to improve the power to be able to vote. A regular player who is delivering, running missions etc will always have a high trust value.
Your vote also counts towards trust. The lower the CC of the system you are voting for, the more your trust is knocked. So vote for a wildly negative one, and prepare to take the hit. This is in addition to the weighting Sandro suggested.
Solo/ PG tasks (this fleshes out Sandros 'missions / favours' he went into).
A power who owns a 'bubble' (i.e. a control system and its surrounding exploited systems) will generate missions for that bubble. Each mission has three rewards (as now) but with an important difference- as well as money / mats you also have a Powerplay cargo reward based on difficulty (this replaces the INF reward). When complete, this adds that amount to a central depot in that bubbles control system automatically. Each + equals 10, so a reward of +++++ = 50 cargo added to the depots total.
PP themed missions would consist of the following, and would be biased in generation depending on power ethos (i.e. a power that is all hauling would have mainly hauling tasks, while a power that has violent ethos traits would have more combat missions). So covert = spy / steal missions, combat = combat, social = positive delivery missions, economic = hauling etc.
Some ideas:
Spy recovery: your power tasks you in recovering a captured VIP on a surface base or defended location. Use your SRV and break them out!
Kidnap: wipe out a visiting dignitary's escorts and steal his escape pod.
Protect: protect a Powers megaship from waves of scum sent by your enemies!
Courier: you must deliver important data that enemies want to prevent being seen.
Kill: a rival Powers ace pilot has been spotted- kill them for a propaganda coup.
Data thief: steal data from a rivals surface data point/ megaship / instillation without getting caught
Passenger (A): a VIP power dignitary wishes to tour your powers control systems. Make sure they come out alive
Passenger (B): Saboteur- smuggle these illegal passengers into rival control systems to lower their CG. If you are scanned you will be fired on.
Haul: some powers who move slaves / dissidents might have missions where you move these unfortunates, with mission wrinkles being other powers trying to convince you what you are doing is 'wrong'.
Wing missions could be harder versions of the above, or provide more of a challenge to solo players.
These missions could also have more of your Powers 'flavour' to them- for example Archon Delaine might have more organised crime themed missions, Zemina Torval more mining based, and so on- aspects that are glossed over and forgotten. They could also be good RP windows into your power, showing what its like rounding up Utopian crimethink dissidents, or corporate officespeak with Li Yong Rui.
Solo PG also has the task of BGS upkeep (as it is now).
As these are completed the amount of power supplies increases, and the available supplies are visible on the Power map.
Open tasks:
In this proposal, all tasks that are done today are done in Open only here. So fortifying, prepping, UM, expansions are done on a level playing field (or as near to one as you can get technology wise).
Expansions
Expansions by combat now use the 'new' CZ mechanics. Although this does mean more hopping between zones it does stop AFK (away from keyboard) players farming merits in tough turret based ships that use heal beams (as demonstrated in the Healies 4 Feelies videos). Each intensity (low,med high) also reward more merits based on difficulty chosen. Being killed does not reduce trust, but killing someone who holds merits or Powerplay cargo massively increases trust.
Fortifying
Fortifying is all inbound, and can only take place if enough supplies are in the control systems depot. Allocations are based on your trust value. You must deliver successfully to keep your high allocation.
If you fail at delivery (i.e. the cargo is destroyed or ejected and left to expire) your trust value goes down. This in turn affects your allocation multiplier which can go from 10 to -9 depending on activity, but is weighted to go down faster (almost x2 as fast) while it takes twice as long to raise the trust value in positive actions.
All of Sandros suggestions in the link at the top of the thread would be used (weighting, prep votes etc) and would hopefully make 5C more manageable. Along with CZ changes it would limit exploitation. Being realistic it will not wipe out all problems but thats down to P2P in the end. All powers are inbound fortifiers, 'uncapped' undermining (which dovetails well into solo players increasing allocations to help), BGS footprints now in capitals / control systems only (so only these systems need to be aligned to lower fortification) and so on.
Blocking
Pledges cannot block other pledges, only censor messages. Its illogical to block a player for killing you in a feature thats about conflict.
Power Module
Players have two ways to get a module: a tech broker at that powers capital (no pledge required), or have a trust value above 8. Drop below that value, the module is unavailable.
Last edited:
Here is what I'm heading for:
This is a V.2 of my multi mode concept to take into account more ideas and round out everything and add more anti 5C measures.
Problem: Powerplay does not function well across the three modes, with antagonism between solo / PG and Open players being a drag on progress. The following offers Powerplay to both groups.
Idea: Powerplay is split into two halves: one half is Solo /PG, the other Open only. The Solo/ PG part is mission based and contributes to accumulating fort materials for the Open only half to deliver. So, rather than make all modes try to do the same things you provide each mode with specific jobs that amplify that modes potential.
This outline uses all of Sandros ideas plus a few more based on the 3.x BGS rework.
-----------------
General (shared across all modes)
Both sets of players share ranks and perks as they are now.
Merits are split as a concept. Players have the value Trust (see later) cargo in the game or combat merits (from killing PP NPCs).
Solo and PG players can vote as normal, thus they have an equal say in a powers choices.
The allocation increment between ranks is removed. It starts at a flat 10 and multiplied by your Trust value (see below). Important: allocations are not time dependent but instead dependent on delivery- i.e. you get a fixed amount to move at the time of collection and no more until its delivered.
Perks are unlocked based on your trust value (see below).
Trust
Powerplay players have a new variable to manage- 'Trust'. It acts similar to rep with factions and replaces personal merits. The more positive outcomes you have doing tasks across all modes, the higher this value gets. It acts as a multiplier for rewards, as well as your allocation (see later sections for details).
The trust value ranges from 10 (maximum) to -9 (no trust) depending on activity. At full trust (10) all personal perks are unlocked in a similar way to rank 5 currently.
But, if your trust gets too low through failing certain tasks repeatedly, you are automatically unpledged and treated as a defector- i.e. that power sends assassins after you.
Automatic unpledging occurs after 2 BGS 'ticks' at -9. This is an anti 5C measure, so that positive actions reward, while being 5C gets you kicked out and punished.
New pledges have to undergo a mission to prove their loyalty, and once complete get a message from your glorious leader allowing them to be a pledge. You start with a low trust score, and must work to improve it. Missions might be to stock a control systems depot (see below) or kill x amount of rival PP players / NPCs.
Note, trust will decay slowly over time. However this is gradual (and not as harsh as it is now- it would be 10% each week, not 50%.) Please note also that regaining trust points is free and as easy as doing missions or delivering cargo (which is free).
Pledging / Unpledging
You can unpledge at any time. You must wait 7 BGS ticks before you can repledge again, and you start with a neutral trust value.
You can also defect instantly- however your trust value with your new power is set very low at -8 since you are traitorous untustworthy scum, and your old power will hunt you for 7 days with G5 assassins, as well as having your marker show up in Open as a traitor for the same amount of time. In short, defecting is dangerous. If you are auto unpledged for being at -9 trust for 2 BGS ticks, you are hunted for 14 BGS ticks and subject to the same caveats as defectors (visible in map etc).
Note, it would therefore be in a players own interests if they are not active in Powerplay to depledge rather than let it lapse
Voting
Along with Sandros weighting a pledge can only vote if their trust value is 9 or 10. This makes 5C have to improve the power to be able to vote. A regular player who is delivering, running missions etc will always have a high trust value.
Solo/ PG tasks (this fleshes out Sandros 'missions / favours' he went into).
A power who owns a 'bubble' (i.e. a control system and its surrounding exploited systems) will generate missions for that bubble. Each mission has three rewards (as now) but with an important difference- as well as money / mats you also have a Powerplay cargo reward based on difficulty (this replaces the INF reward). When complete, this adds that amount to a central depot in that bubbles control system automatically. Each + equals 10, so a reward of +++++ = 50 cargo added to the depots total.
PP themed missions would consist of the following, and would be biased in generation depending on power ethos (i.e. a power that is all hauling would have mainly hauling tasks, while a power that has violent ethos traits would have more combat missions). So covert = spy / steal missions, combat = combat, social = positive delivery missions, economic = hauling etc.
Some ideas:
Spy recovery: your power tasks you in recovering a captured VIP on a surface base or defended location. Use your SRV and break them out!
Kidnap: wipe out a visiting dignitary's escorts and steal his escape pod.
Protect: protect a Powers megaship from waves of scum sent by your enemies!
Courier: you must deliver important data that enemies want to prevent being seen.
Kill: a rival Powers ace pilot has been spotted- kill them for a propaganda coup.
Data thief: steal data from a rivals surface data point/ megaship / instillation without getting caught
Passenger (A): a VIP power dignitary wishes to tour your powers control systems. Make sure they come out alive
Passenger (B): Saboteur- smuggle these illegal passengers into rival control systems to lower their CG. If you are scanned you will be fired on.
Haul: some powers who move slaves / dissidents might have missions where you move these unfortunates, with mission wrinkles being other powers trying to convince you what you are doing is 'wrong'.
Wing missions could be harder versions of the above, or provide more of a challenge to solo players.
These missions could also have more of your Powers 'flavour' to them- for example Archon Delaine might have more organised crime themed missions, Zemina Torval more mining based, and so on- aspects that are glossed over and forgotten. They could also be good RP windows into your power, showing what its like rounding up Utopian crimethink dissidents, or corporate officespeak with Li Yong Rui.
Solo PG also has the task of BGS upkeep (as it is now).
As these are completed the amount of power supplies increases, and the available supplies are visible on the Power map.
Open tasks:
In this proposal, all tasks that are done today are done in Open only here. So fortifying, prepping, UM, expansions are done on a level playing field (or as near to one as you can get technology wise).
Expansions
Expansions by combat now use the 'new' CZ mechanics. Although this does mean more hopping between zones it does stop AFK (away from keyboard) players farming merits in tough turret based ships that use heal beams (as demonstrated in the Healies 4 Feelies videos). Each intensity (low,med high) also reward more merits based on difficulty chosen. Being killed does not reduce trust, but killing someone who holds merits or Powerplay cargo massively increases trust.
Fortifying
Fortifying is all inbound, and can only take place if enough supplies are in the control systems depot. Allocations are based on your trust value. You must deliver successfully to keep your high allocation.
If you fail at delivery (i.e. the cargo is destroyed or ejected and left to expire) your trust value goes down. This in turn affects your allocation multiplier which can go from 10 to -9 depending on activity, but is weighted to go down faster (almost x2 as fast) while it takes twice as long to raise the trust value in positive actions.
All of Sandros suggestions in the link at the top of the thread would be used (weighting, prep votes etc) and would hopefully make 5C more manageable. Along with CZ changes it would limit exploitation. Being realistic it will not wipe out all problems but thats down to P2P in the end. All powers are inbound fortifiers, 'uncapped' undermining (which dovetails well into solo players increasing allocations to help), BGS footprints now in capitals / control systems only (so only these systems need to be aligned to lower fortification) and so on.
Blocking
Pledges cannot block other pledges, only censor messages. Its illogical to block a player for killing you in a feature thats about conflict.
Power Module
Players have two ways to get a module: a tech broker at that powers capital (no pledge required), or have a trust value above 8. Drop below that value, the module is unavailable.
ok yeah that is pretty awesome
I think it's worth looking at in detail for sure, which I will do when i get a mo.One 'quick' query tho.. Combining the biggest risks together I don't see what there is to stop, say, botters using port-blocking to haul cargo relentlessly while never instancing with opposition?
One thing that surprised me about Sandro's Flash Topic feedback was the few comments from BGS/PMF focused players about the ethos changes (which are included above). This is huge thing for a lot of PMFs. It releases literally thousands of systems from having any effect on the Powerplay economy, and ends Powers' interests in whichever minor faction runs them. It creates greater legitimacy for Powerplay BGS work (at the moment, frankly, Powers are very system-greedy by necessity of PP mechanics) and simplified understanding for PMFs when they know any control systems will be a heavy battle to say the least, and the rest are usually fair-game. This in turn creates a lot of new space for PMF additions, which come in never ending batches causing some degree of strife for all concerned.
ok yeah that is pretty awesome
One 'quick' query tho.. Combining the biggest risks together I don't see what there is to stop, say, botters using port-blocking to haul cargo relentlessly while never instancing with opposition?
One thing that surprised me about Sandro's Flash Topic feedback was the few comments from BGS/PMF focused players about the ethos changes (which are included above). This is huge thing for a lot of PMFs. It releases literally thousands of systems from having any effect on the Powerplay economy, and ends Powers' interests in whichever minor faction runs them. It creates greater legitimacy for Powerplay BGS work (at the moment, frankly, Powers are very system-greedy by necessity of PP mechanics) and simplified understanding for PMFs when they know any control systems will be a heavy battle to say the least, and the rest are usually fair-game. This in turn creates a lot of new space for PMF additions, which come in never ending batches causing some degree of strife for all concerned.
Which reminds me to add: in my grand Powerplay scheme, a control systems flip status would be based on the happiness of a system. This then separates gov type from PMF, and makes Powerplay a real popularity contest (i.e. unhappy people = high fort values, happy people = contented people and low upkeep). This has the knock on effect of more for the solo PG mission people to do. Powers would get a small boost towards being flipped if they align- Imp to Imp, Fed to Fed, Indy to Indy and Alliance to vegetable.
Regards to botters: I edited the voting aspect so that you must vote for the most profitable system or take a trust hit. This would work with weighting as a double anti 5C blast. AFK botting is reduced by the new 3.X CZ mechanics.
What to do with bot haulers though? Spitballing time:
Solution A: move the station drop distances (so ships drop further away) and populate this gap with intruder PP NPCs. Bots would need to be able to handle mild combat, but some forum goers would squeal. See here for my detailed proposal: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ces-and-other-c-p-tweaks.527185/#post-8101523
Solution B: involve the NAV in a capital- if a fortifier has to drop to the NAV to get some sort of lore fluff password data packet before docking. It could be an idea place for open players to catch lazy botters, but also put an extra step to do that throws bot programs.
Solution C: Each fortification delivery is given a random destination. Rather than send all fort materials to capital, each time you have a location you must deliver them to (and everything is added up later). Can bots read? If not then its game over for them.
Now that sounds like a massive grind to me. Also is heavily loaded as usual to the ones who want to attack players and no thought about the ones who don't, they just get to be targets who will lose trust and have to grind twice as hard. haulers will have to play your game and fit the HRPs you say they should, they can no longer play the game they want.
Apart from that, doesn't matter what you do somebody will find an exploit. 99.9% of PP videos show how to buy 750 tons on the last day, maybe blame them for just shortcutting it and not showing how it should have been approached, but then most people just want the modules, no modules no point doing PP at all.
If someone wants to play solo or PG only yet unlock every engineer and PP item and use them on NPCs for their own fun and later join Open and use them there why do you have the right to interfere with that? They paid their money for the entire game, not just the bits you deem they should be allowed access to under whatever rules you apply.
I play PP in Open on XB for 5 weeks now, I havent even seen another Cmdr in any Control system I attack or on the way back and forth to my own Control or in my own Control systems. I am in Open in your Control system attacking your NPCs so that should maybe suggest how I feel, but forcing my feelings onto others is not the way forwards.
Apart from that, doesn't matter what you do somebody will find an exploit. 99.9% of PP videos show how to buy 750 tons on the last day, maybe blame them for just shortcutting it and not showing how it should have been approached, but then most people just want the modules, no modules no point doing PP at all.
If someone wants to play solo or PG only yet unlock every engineer and PP item and use them on NPCs for their own fun and later join Open and use them there why do you have the right to interfere with that? They paid their money for the entire game, not just the bits you deem they should be allowed access to under whatever rules you apply.
I play PP in Open on XB for 5 weeks now, I havent even seen another Cmdr in any Control system I attack or on the way back and forth to my own Control or in my own Control systems. I am in Open in your Control system attacking your NPCs so that should maybe suggest how I feel, but forcing my feelings onto others is not the way forwards.
So youre not interested in the strategy part of it. That's fine.
The above is so people with no interest in the strategy or teamplay can get the modules via techbroker unlocks. Wouldn't you prefer that instead of having to pledge to different powers for a year to get all the modules?
See the section below for Solo/PG tasks. If someone doesnt fancy (for example) risking the open hauling or flying cover to defend haulers, then there are plenty of logistic activities they can do to get their perks and help their power.