Hardware Failure => Coincident?

Bunkerkind Anni

Bunkerkind Anni
Backstory - i was a very active Elite Dangerous player until one and a half year ago.
then my System died in a blue-screen while i was playing ED.
-> main system SSD fried
got a new one, installed my system back on it and started playing again

3 month later - repeat. BSOD while playing ED, SSD controller burned,
Bios would not find it anymore, but with the help of an USB-SATA connector i could read out the Data.
thanks to that i could mirror my system onto a new one.

1 year later, today, i start Elite Dangerous again. (This time its installed via Steam on the regular HDD)
BSOD... luckily no sign of Hardware damage yet.

but what the hell is going on? are BSOD's common to ED in this itteration, or do i have to fear another SSD fail in the near future?

PS: writing this while the extended check runs.
 

jonesskill

jonesskill
Well, hardware failures like that usually happens when something is not good a hardware level.
Itsgood to check your power supply also your motherboard.
When you are playing ED or any another game your PC will be under load, maybe your PSU its not handling it, this can damage sensible parts like RAM, HDD`s and SSD`s.
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
99% hardware failures are a hardware issue.
Software has a very limited ability to actually damage hardware if the hardware is good.

If you fry your CPU it's not because some software loaded it to 100%, it's because your cooler is insufficient, caps on the power lines failed or something else. Same with drives, memory sticks, PSUs,...
The reason a certain software gets blamed for such failures is simply because we tend to do something on the PC and whatever it is we're doing when the failure occurs, gets the blame.

The fact is that when a piece of hardware is going to go, it's going to go and it's most probably going to go under load, not when idle.
So no, I don't think Elite is to blame for your SSD failure. But I also don't think that it is weird that it happened while playing Elite. Elite does load the drive and the CPU a bit more than an average game so the probability of a failure occuring is a bit higher, IMO.
 

StuartGT

StuartGT
Bunkerkind Anni said:
Backstory - i was a very active Elite Dangerous player until one and a half year ago.
then my System died in a blue-screen while i was playing ED.
-> main system SSD fried
got a new one, installed my system back on it and started playing again

3 month later - repeat. BSOD while playing ED, SSD controller burned,
Bios would not find it anymore, but with the help of an USB-SATA connector i could read out the Data.
thanks to that i could mirror my system onto a new one.

1 year later, today, i start Elite Dangerous again. (This time its installed via Steam on the regular HDD)
BSOD... luckily no sign of Hardware damage yet.

but what the hell is going on? are BSOD's common to ED in this itteration, or do i have to fear another SSD fail in the near future?

PS: writing this while the extended check runs.
Click to expand...
Sounds like your SSD controller had an escalating issue which initially killed the first SSD, then died completely.

Run BlueScreenView to determine the cause of your latest BSOD: https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
What make of SSD? I always use Samsung, and haven't had one fail yet. I personally have at least ten in constant use, but have fitted at least a hundred more to other machines.

I had a motherboard failure a couple of years ago that caused numerous crashes (but once replaced, no issues from then). I had a receiver (as in amp) failure that took out the HDMI board of my projector... So, hardware failing can have knock-on effects.

E: D won't be causing the issues (if that's what you're asking :) ). But it may well be stressing components enough so that the issues occur.
 
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Crank Larson

Crank Larson
Chris Simon said:
Well, there are pieces of malicious software that can damage your stuff. I was purposefully not absolute in my statement in case there's going to be a nitpick who points that out. :LOL:
Click to expand...

The reason I asked is that I genuinely can't think of one. I would still argue that with malicious software, if it were able to take out a piece of hardware, then it was still the hardware at fault. :)
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
I highly recommend everyone have a good-quality sine wave UPS that does power conditioning. Many places in the world have terrible power stability, and it isn't always obviously like the flickering of lights. Crappy power is a sure way to kill a PC. This also implies that you need a high-end power supply in the PC itself. Otherwise things will die.
 

Bunkerkind Anni

Bunkerkind Anni
No, i don't really think ED is responsible for the fails... but its not the only demanding Game i am playing on this machine, yet its coincidentally always the one running when i get the BSODs
Chris Simon said:
99% hardware failures are a hardware issue.
Software has a very limited ability to actually damage hardware if the hardware is good.

If you fry your CPU it's not because some software loaded it to 100%, it's because your cooler is insufficient, caps on the power lines failed or something else. Same with drives, memory sticks, PSUs,...
The reason a certain software gets blamed for such failures is simply because we tend to do something on the PC and whatever it is we're doing when the failure occurs, gets the blame.

The fact is that when a piece of hardware is going to go, it's going to go and it's most probably going to go under load, not when idle.
So no, I don't think Elite is to blame for your SSD failure. But I also don't think that it is weird that it happened while playing Elite. Elite does load the drive and the CPU a bit more than an average game so the probability of a failure occuring is a bit higher, IMO.
Click to expand...
Well, for me it wouldn't be the first time a game damaged something. The first case was a game that had a not-very-demanding login screen that gave me 600+ FPS if VSYNC was off. That literally burned out something on my GFX-Card, and i had to replace it. (Note for those who don't know: high FPS also means lots of heat generated for naught)
Same game was also very bad for early generation SSD's, due to permanent read/write access for logs (later you could deactivate that)
I have put ED on the HDD, despite slower loading times, because the DEVs didn't implement a way to write the net-logs in a user-defined folder
StuartGT said:
Sounds like your SSD controller had an escalating issue which initially killed the first SSD, then died completely.

Run BlueScreenView to determine the cause of your latest BSOD: https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html
Click to expand...
sadly, todays BSOD didn't generate a minidump and i was to fast to reset to read the error message
 

JazzyTech

JazzyTech
I've been playing ED since the Kickstarter days and have been using only Samsung SSDs (840,850,860 - all of which are still functioning fine). Upgraded my OS twice(win7/8/10), upgraded GPUs twice (960, then 2x960 SLI, then 2070super). Motherboard and power supply being the only original components not exchanged. (650W PSU and Sabertooth 990FX MB)
I have never experience a BSOD with E.D. The only issue encountered was the graphic driver crashing due to overclocking my GPUs, but that's been a few years now. I doubt that the SSD failure is due to a software issue.

E.D. will push you GPU harder than most games if allowed to run at max FPS (when V-Sync is disabled) as Bunkerkind Anni mentioned. This will increase the internal temp of your machine which might lead to other components getting too hot (if your cooling system is overwhelmed).
 
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Ashnak

Ashnak
Crank Larson said:
The reason I asked is that I genuinely can't think of one. I would still argue that with malicious software, if it were able to take out a piece of hardware, then it was still the hardware at fault. :)
Click to expand...
We're going way off the charts here, but there was a time, long ago (as far as computers go), when displays held CRTs. Those displays had transformers in them to create high voltages and other moderate to high power circuitry. They also were supposed to be run only at one single frequency, which determined the refresh rate and the resolution.
Some time later, people weren't satisfied with 40 lines of 80 characters each (or 640 x 480 pixels), and monitors (still CRTs) came up with larger resolutions, which required a different frequency to run. Some clever people thought up a solution that would use a few so far unused pins in the most common display connector and, through their wiring, tell the computer what the correct frequency for that display should be.
Still some time later, monitors that could work at multiple discrete resolutions (and therefore, frequencies) came to the market. Those were usually good - and very expensive, and allowed switching the frequency in software on the computer. ny time you chaged the resolution, the monitor would emit a loud "clonk" as it adjusted to the new frequency - and create a small power surge.
Now, just as a pure thought experiment, imagine a piece of malicious software that would switch the frequency rapidly...

Yes, that scenario had been resurrected as a minor plotline in Cryptonomicon - and I don't know if such a piece of software had ever been written and/or released into the wild. But, during the time of those fixed frequency monitors, some people also made small adapters with a bank of DIP switches in them, so you could plug any uncoded monitor into a PC and, through those switches, set the frequency/resolution that monitor should run. Do it right, and you'd get a picture. Do it wrong, and your monitor might survive.
 

GJ51

GJ51
Have you looked at device manager for Problems?

Most BSOD's are driver issues.

You can also remove and re-seat components that may have dust or corrosion on contacts that might be cured by removal, a shot of electronics compressed gas, and a good blowdown of each component, and then re-seating everything. Remove ram, video card, SSD, and anything else short of the CPU that has a connector or is seated on the PCI bus.

Surprising how often this can fix things. I'd also be a bit suspect of the power supply and include removing and re-seating all those connectors as well.

After that, if you're still getting indications of drive failure, it's likely a bad controller. For $50 or less you can get a card that plugs into the PCI bus that allows you to connect an SSD directly into an open PCI slot. That will also significantly improve performance.

HTH
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
I'd consider replacing your PSU to begin with, if it's old(ish).

A failing PSU can cause damage without you ever knowing, until something gives.

Next culprit is your motherboard, I don't actually know how to test this, but if you can afford it, replace them both.

Other components are less likely to cause damage, so that would be my starting point.

Only problem is, you don't know what other damage is already in your system. Lol

Buy a whole new PC, only way to be safe!
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Bunkerkind Anni said:
Well, for me it wouldn't be the first time a game damaged something. The first case was a game that had a not-very-demanding login screen that gave me 600+ FPS if VSYNC was off. That literally burned out something on my GFX-Card, and i had to replace it. (Note for those who don't know: high FPS also means lots of heat generated for naught)
Click to expand...
Sorry but I don't think that's how it happened.

PS
To clarify:
GPUs don't overheat because of too many FPS but because of too much load and insufficient cooling. Most (if not all) modern GPUs throttle down automatically similar to CPUs. So you apparently had two issues: your cooling was bad (a GPU shouldn't go above maximum heat threshold under 100% load) and it didn't throttle down. Or something completely different and unrelated to heat. In any case it wasn't the game that killed your GPU, it was faulty hardware.
 
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LordDagon

LordDagon
Causation and correlation are two different things. Just because something happened when you were doing something, doesn’t necessarily mean the thing you are doing caused it. As some people have alluded to, power irregularities are frequently the cause of hardware failure. Using a quality power supply that isn’t strained by your system (and is in good working order), and a line conditioner (or use an UPS as a poor man’s line conditioner), and make sure you aren’t trying to run too many appliances from a single outlet/circuit. That said, if something was causing an extraordinary number of read/write operations, it could wear out an SSD. SSDs have a finite number of reads/write and the controller, type of memory, and level of redundancy greatly affect the expected time to failure. This is why some types of SSDs are more expensive than others. But even with a cheap drive, I doubt a video game would wear it out in such a short period. As mentioned BSODs can many times be caused by driver issues. Another issue that can cause BSODs is failing RAM (or too low of RAM voltages). And if you have multiple hardware failures, we are back to likely being power related issues. When you game, or do other demanding taskings, your power requirements go up as well. So, it wouldn’t be odd for this to be the time when issues arise.

TL;DR : No, the game isn’t at fault, even if that is when your hardware fails.
 
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