Feedback on FA OFF learning

[Just Paul]

I use a steam controller and having lateral and vertical thrusters on the same pad is awesome. Took me the better of 2 months to lose the muscle memory for that change. I still find myself sometimes trying to use lateral thrusters as yaw during landing.
I found that then I started FAoff training that I could fly relatively easily FAoff then I'm alone, even in rings. But once I try to fight somebody the muscle memory for FAon takes over and I overdue the inputs, making me look like I'm flying drunk. I'm still fighting the controls sometimes but it gets better with every fight.

The steam controller has a gyro which I use as a mouse substitute, that helps a lot with fine tuning the aim for hitscan weapons. To the same time I find myself sometimes countering the mouse input with the pad and stick inputs. It just takes lots of practice to get better and to train the muscle memory that small input changes are better. The pip and weapons management feels easier with FAoff as I can move my finger from the little stick for that time and the ship still follows the given vector.

Another plus is I have a relative mouse from the gyro for FAoff and normal pad inputs for FAon, no toggle needed. But a toggle would be nice then I could drift around in SC too.

 

[space voyager]

I've been planning to learn FA off for some time now. If it wasn't for an expedition I joined, I'd be learning that. So, right after this. Thanks for the tips, OP!

 

[Krash]

I've been using mouse and keyboard for 30 years no interest in hotas. The only thing stopping things from being 10/10 is relative mouse toggle or fa off entered relative mouse on auto toggle.

I can tweak perfect settings for fa off. I can tweak perfect settings for fa on, but not both. I dont like having to change my config everytime I go from combat to super cruise. So I use a middle ground that's not perfect for either and leaves me frustrated.

My compromise is to turn FAoff only when needed, which is only in combat and only in the turns to get a quicker target lock for my weps. I even have a macro for that function. I call it the combat turn macro. Boost, FAoff, thrust down (2 secs), FAon. I only have to concern myself with pip management to have enough juice for the boost.

 

[Iron Golem]

I can only use M&K for certain games - namely strategy point & click etc. Even FPS games I prefer to play with a pad even if it's less accurate, but it's just more comfortable to me despite sitting at a desk, especially during longer sessions. Maybe it's the fact it reminds me too much of being 'at work' lol who knows.

Its just my medium. I am institutionalized .

My compromise is to turn FAoff only when needed, which is only in combat and only in the turns to get a quicker target lock for my weps. I even have a macro for that function. I call it the combat turn macro. Boost, FAoff, thrust down (2 secs), FAon. I only have to concern myself with pip management to have enough juice for the boost.

Curious to learn, what is gained by turning down thrust while doing the fa off boost?

 

[Krash]

Its just my medium. I am institutionalized .


Curious to learn, what is gained by turning down thrust while doing the fa off boost?

Because I use that function when pitching up in the turn. thrusting down speeds that up, even with FAon, but dramatically faster in FAoff.

 

[Iron Golem]

Because I use that function when pitching up in the turn. thrusting down speeds that up, even with FAon, but dramatically faster in FAoff.

I am sure my lack of knowledge about mechanics and fa off is making the statement confusing for me to understand. If your boosting that puts your ship at optimal maneuverability rating (Blue zone perfect equivlent for duration of boost?) but if you have active thrust from throttle in addition that makes the turn slower?

 

[Krash]

I am sure my lack of knowledge about mechanics and fa off is making the statement confusing for me to understand. If your boosting that puts your ship at optimal maneuverability rating (Blue zone perfect equivlent for duration of boost?) but if you have active thrust from throttle in addition that makes the turn slower?

I don't understand the mechanics behind this effect. Morbad is the pro at explaining stuff. In practice, thrust down + pitch up results in a faster 180 degree turn. Boost + FAoff simply magnifies the effect; reduces the turn radius maybe?

 

[Iron Golem]

I don't understand the mechanics behind this effect. Morbad is the pro at explaining stuff. In practice, thrust down + pitch up results in a faster 180 degree turn. Boost + FAoff simply magnifies the effect; reduces the turn radius maybe?

Yeah I love Morbads posts. Ive learned a lot from threads from them over the years as I search for info.

 

[the100thmonkey]

If somebody could me understanding this : trying to land on a 2.1g planet, dropped from SC at high altitude (too fast), and then decided to engage SC again to reach my destination on ground. So I headed at zenith (90°, escape vector) but FSD never engaged, because ... I was falling. Vertically. I could even perfectly see my own contrails in front of me, as an evidence, if needed, I was rapidly falling. If there was contrails, then the main thruster was working (4 pips ENG, of course). So I tried to switch back to FA ON, to see if it could be different. As soon as FA was activated, the falling got slower, the contrails began to freeze, then disappeared. I was going up again (and still heading zenith). So, it looked like the main thruster was more powerful with FA ON than with FA OFF (enough to win against gravity). Where am I wrong ?

In FA-off, you can exceed the maximum speed of your ship. Counterthrust won't slow you down. To slow down, you can deploy landing gear, open the cargo hatch or turn FA-on.

I thought it was a bug that would get squished eventually, but it's been in the game for years now.

 

[Krash]

Yeah I love Morbads posts. Ive learned a lot from threads from them over the years as I search for info.

Starting at 55 secs, you can observe the first combat turn macro in action. It feels like the turn completes twice as fast when you're in it.

 

[Iron Golem]

Starting at 55 secs, you can observe the first combat turn macro in action. It feels like the turn completes twice as fast when you're in it.

Good stuff, those Imperial Hammers look great. I wonder if FDL can handle running 4 of them. Its my next pp module I'm going for. I will send you a pm about some questions do I don't bog down the thread any further.

 

[Shir]

I keep relative mouse on and just use numpad keys to roll and turn up down when in supercruise, especially with less agile ships. The one aspect where FA off is worse than FA on is decelerating, it takes longer. With some ships this is a bigger problem than with others. The best results are with a mixture of on and off flying, but all FA off is severyly fun!

The best advice i can give is go easy on everything, thrusters, brakes, speed, etc.. A little can go a long way. Watching your speed is as close as we get to having an accelerometer.

 

[Iron Golem]

I keep relative mouse on and just use numpad keys to roll and turn up down when in supercruise, especially with less agile ships. The one aspect where FA off is worse than FA on is decelerating, it takes longer. With some ships this is a bigger problem than with others. The best results are with a mixture of on and off flying, but all FA off is severyly fun!

The best advice i can give is go easy on everything, thrusters, brakes, speed, etc.. A little can go a long way. Watching your speed is as close as we get to having an accelerometer.

I've seen this mentioned repeatedly. I will have to try that mapping for super cruise and see if it helps.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

If somebody could me understanding this : trying to land on a 2.1g planet, dropped from SC at high altitude (too fast), and then decided to engage SC again to reach my destination on ground. So I headed at zenith (90°, escape vector) but FSD never engaged, because ... I was falling. Vertically. I could even perfectly see my own contrails in front of me, as an evidence, if needed, I was rapidly falling. If there was contrails, then the main thruster was working (4 pips ENG, of course). So I tried to switch back to FA ON, to see if it could be different. As soon as FA was activated, the falling got slower, the contrails began to freeze, then disappeared. I was going up again (and still heading zenith). So, it looked like the main thruster was more powerful with FA ON than with FA OFF (enough to win against gravity). Where am I wrong ?

Throttle is useless FAoff. You need to map thrust forward and keep the button pushed. Boosting too. Lateral vertical and main thrusters are your tool for vector control. Not your nose direction nor the throttle. Contrails is a graphical cue for your actual vector and is indépendant of your nose direction.

 

[galahad2069]

I have the same exact issues your having. I have tried many different settings and still leaves fa on and super cruise sluggish to get fa off just right.

Relative mouse auto toggle to on when fa off is engaged would be my ideal solution. If anyone has had these problems and has overcome them please pm me your secrets...

I agree on the ideal solution thing.

But there are workarounds. The easier one is secondary pitch up bind on spacebar. It completely solves the supercruise problem (even the interdiction minigame will be OK if you keep rolling). Also, it makes FAon+relative mouse viable for basic tasks like docking, scooping etc. However, it's not precise enough for longer FAon maneuvers during combat, so you'll need to fly full FAoff (at least with pitch and yaw on mouse - maybe it's better if you use pitch and roll on mouse, but that in itself is pretty hard to learn IMO).

The more sophisticated workaround some ppl use is virtual joystick.

 

[Iron Golem]

I agree on the ideal solution thing.

But there are workarounds. The easier one is secondary pitch up bind on spacebar. It completely solves the supercruise problem (even the interdiction minigame will be OK if you keep rolling). Also, it makes FAon+relative mouse viable for basic tasks like docking, scooping etc. However, it's not precise enough for longer FAon maneuvers during combat, so you'll need to fly full FAoff (at least with pitch and yaw on mouse - maybe it's better if you use pitch and roll on mouse, but that in itself is pretty hard to learn IMO).

The more sophisticated workaround some ppl use is virtual joystick.

I tend to rock full fa off for combat, the exceptions being sometimes with FDL / Courier aiming fixed hit scan like rails or beams I need the extra stability of fa on (Especially at long range when trying to utilize microgimble effect), I also made a second mouse sensitivity to switch in the moment that is lower than normal that helps some.

My main problem is really supercruise. I literally have to roll the mouse my full surface area, pick it up, put it all the way up and roll all the way towards me over and over to make complete turns unless im in something like courier. The realtive mouse I need to stabalize fa off just makes super cruise an utter nightmare.

 

[Madrax573]

I think it's time for an Open Letter about that relative mouse toggle.

I'm not even joking. I mean, I am, but if that would mean we might get that option, I would never make fun of Open Letters again.

I stopped using relative mouse... don't like going back to it now... completely 100% assist off now (well as much as you can be in ED )

I do think there should be an in game toggle option though for those who are not as crazy as I am to have better access to control methods etc.

 

[Good Whiskey]

How I learned "FA off": I turned FA off and flew around until I got it.

I wish there was more to it, but there isn't.

 

[Madrax573]

How I learned "FA off": I turned FA off and flew around until I got it.

I wish there was more to it, but there isn't.

While we do try to give hints and tips to people this is more often the best way to 'learn' it...

 

[Deleted member 182079]

How I learned "FA off": I turned FA off and flew around until I got it.

I wish there was more to it, but there isn't.

The one bit to add (even if it's kinda obvious) for the absolute beginner is to pay attention to the direction of travel of space dust. But yeah, other than that get a Sidey, no pips to engines, and mess about to your liking.