I agree 100% with Drew here

[Stealthie]

One thing that has been glossed over during all of this teeth gnashing and chest thumping either for or against GalNet and Lore is the little fact some members of our community have the inability to separate fluff articles from the real ones. According to them, everything is 'real' if it was mentioned on GalNet.

Case in point: remember a while ago there were a series of articles about two competing companies racing to release wearable computers. Mildly entertaining fluff for most, but for enough members of the community it was real. For them these wearable computers were sure signs that Elite Feet was just about to be released otherwise why even mention them. There were lengthy posts discussing the pros and cons of each device and how it would work in the game by the players. Notice the change, one moment harmless fluff, next moment it is a tool within the game that will foreshadow the imminent release of Space Legs. And then there was the wailing and crying when the stories wound down and nothing happened. They community was betrayed they cried, they told us these computers were coming, there were stories about it, it must be true. Oh the game is doomed ...

Maybe FD need to have some indicator on each article so everyone knows whether that specific story is part of game, i.e. can be visited or interacted with, or just harmless fluff to fill the page!

Or, they could just have writers who understand how thoroughly players investigate any sniff of a narrative development and then write "fluff" articles that avoid causing confusion.

Let's face it, when you write an article all about, say, how a giant cybernetic mining robot has just gone missing during a field-test on Blobbiwob 4, you shouldn't be surprised when people travel to the Blobbiwob system and then moan that Blobbiwob 4 isn't even a landable planet, and neither are any of the other planets in the Blobbiwob system.

If somebody at FDev wants to flex their creative-writing muscles (and all power to anybody who does), it seems like the safest way to do it would be to look at the stuff that IS happening - either changes driven by players or the BGS - and then just embelish those events rather than creating entirely intangible things.

 

[The Lawful]

I think you'll probably just complain about anything they do, or don't do, or you think they should have done .

Petitio principii?

O7,

 

[Layne Vakarian]

Petitio principii?

O7,

 

[Valorin]

Its not that I'm OK with the lore explanation, its more that I'm not bothered about it either way and treat lore as valid while I'm listening to it if I listen to it. Its all gameplay handwavium, the lore as it started was handwavium based on a different game now its changed to fit the current game.



I've still got a bag of dice and a load of rule books somewhere but that's a different type of entertainment.

With telepresence that was to allow us to crew up with each other no matter where we are in game right across the galaxy, the alternative would be meet in game first which could take a couple of weeks depending where you are. That wouldn't really work from a fun perspective.

Multicrew isn't that popular since manning turrets is very dull (as it is in every game that features it) but people did ask for it repeatedly so I can see why FDEV did it the telepresence way as that's handwavium to make it possible, it also neatly explains not dying with a disposable SLF.

Okay... Once again. And maybe this time you read the whole sentences:

I don't mind features like multicrewing without meeting up as a gameplay mechanic. I don't like the Lore explanation because it completely breaks the gameworld.
I don't mind being able to reproduce fighters as a gameplay feature much. I don't like the Lore explanation because it again affects the whole gameworld a lot.

My whole point is not about these two things, but about the way lore is handled and used. If you don't care about lore consistency we will keep having a different opinion on that, and there is no need to discuss it at all.

 

[Stigbob]

Telepresence wasn't what allowed that. A game play compromise is what allowed that.

This game play compromise, instant multicrew, absolutely did not need to be explained via lore, anymore than instant rebuy, instant repairs, instant cargo loading, instant modifications, or any other instant game play compromises in this game that nobody ever complains about not having a lore explanation for. While I may think instant multicrew is a poor game play mechanic, and would've preferred being able to crew a ship serially (assuming I trusted either the Commander or the other crew), but once such a compromise is made, for whatever reason, it's far better not to explain it in lore at all, and allow players to create their own headcanon, rather that go the route Frontier did.

Which was, quite frankly, to introduce a novel technology to the setting: extremely long range, high bandwidth, and low latency FTL communications technology. This technology should've radically changed the face of this game's setting, obviating the very thing which allows for existence of the Pilots' Federation in the first place. We're expected to swallow the idea that such radical technology won't be used in finance, transportation, and industry to make tons of money, but for remotely control turrets only. We're expected to ignore the potential this technology has to revolutionize the face of politics, espionage, and combat, but only use them to remotely pilot small, ship-launched drones. We're expected to not question why we have to physically transport exploration data, combat bonds, and bounties, as well as get paid to physically carry routine communications between the two parties, when something orders of magnitude better actually exists.

Ugh...

Its not a big deal as its obviously just a method of allowing us to play together without meeting up first. Whatever the official 'lore' is doesn't really matter since the important thing is a gameplay facilitation method which trumps whatever the fan-fic says.

Okay... Once again. And maybe this time you read the whole sentences:

I don't mind features like multicrewing without meeting up as a gameplay mechanic. I don't like the Lore explanation because it completely breaks the gameworld.
I don't mind being able to reproduce fighters as a gameplay feature much. I don't like the Lore explanation because it again affects the whole gameworld a lot.

My whole point is not about these two things, but about the way lore is handled and used. If you don't care about lore consistency we will keep having a different opinion on that, and there is no need to discuss it at all.

It might for you it doesn't for me, its a video game with bullets that stop at 3km's (unmodded) if you can suspend disbelief for that you can cope with multicrew or instant refuelling at station which again is a gameplay thing.

Stuff 'lore' getting in the way of fun its just a sprinkling of unnecessary fluff on top of the gameplay.

WarHammer 40K

Another example from W40K, those dudes have no reloads.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Elite - Every planet with a station had a race inhabiting it.
Elite Dangerous - 1,000's of inhabited planets but we are never told who by.

The lore was dumped on during the design phase of the game.

Now poor planning has led to some fluff being left out of the game and that's what worries me the most - Poor planning.
No idea who the PM is these days but I'd say they need to pull their finger out of their ears and start building contingencies into their timeline to accommodate current features and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Games die through bad planning.
Don't let this game die.

 

[Stigbob]

Elite - Every planet with a station had a race inhabiting it.
Elite Dangerous - 1,000's of inhabited planets but we are never told who by.

The lore was dumped on during the design phase of the game.

Now poor planning has led to some fluff being left out of the game and that's what worries me the most - Poor planning.
No idea who the PM is these days but I'd say they need to pull their finger out of their ears and start building contingencies into their timeline to accommodate current features and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Games die through bad planning.
Don't let this game die.

Any game with an incoming free expansion followed by paid DLC isn't in the dying category.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Which was, quite frankly, to introduce a novel technology to the setting:

From https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/governments-and-politics-in-elite-dangerous.225156/ - (Jan 2016)

· Where is the Senate located? Is it in a named building, in a particular city?
Historically it used to always physically sit in the Senate House on Capitol (Achenar 6d). It is near to the Imperial Palace. Technically it still does sit there, but in practice most Senators ‘sit’ virtually by remote projection – though by tradition there are a number of events (like the accession of a new Emperor, and on ‘Empire Day’ (January 2nd) where it is considered ‘proper and polite’ to attend physically, where a party atmosphere descends on Capitol as the entourages of each Senator arrive in their finery.

· Where, and in what manner, are each Alliance member system represented politically?
By their Council Member(s) in Parliament. Parliament is virtual, but run from Turner’s World in Alioth.

Now, you could argue that in the initial Lore construction pre-release they didn't think through the full implications of telepresence (just as they didn't for the FSD), but the technology was there in lore long before we got to use it as pilots.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Any game with an incoming free expansion followed by paid DLC isn't in the dying category.

Didn't say it was...
Just pointed out that bad planning can kill games regardless of any DLC or expansion plans.

Remember Star Wars Galaxies?
Poor planning for an unwanted expansion created a game no-one wanted to play anymore.

Games die through bad planning.
Don't let this game die.

You might want to take the time to understand a post before responding.

 

[Badmiker]

This game will die unless something changes.

It cannot become a museum piece, just keeping a dwindling number of hardcore players happy; it needs to attract new players, needs to come up with new elements, it needs to change. Recycled joke; the lore musn't be law, rather the lore needs to support the game. The lore was only created in the first place to add depth to the game but, over time, it has become such an involved and studied thing that, for many, it's become too precious to allow to change or evolve.

FDev are trying to keep Elite viable but it seems like this community is part of the problem; the level of criticism on here is incredible, I can understand why FDev do not engage on here when they are subject to such unremitting criticism. Even after the recent charity event, the first post on here about it was critical. Incredible.

I applaud FDev, this game is fabulous, the Galaxy is amazing and some of the reaction to it is inspiring; Inara, Sag.Eye, Galnet Digest, Distant Worlds. What an incredible creation it is that allows such works to be built on it? What an incredible thing it is that incites the Galnet Open Letter, Drew's stream? Whilst the lore and the history and the ownership of this game is deeply valued; at the end of the day this game has to change, it cannot be bound by the past if that's preventing it's future. Are you so precious about ED that you'd see it become a relic like Oolite rather than evolving into something which is going to attract new players, present new challenges, give new inspiration?

I want to know what's next, I want to know what FDev are cooking up. Believe me; as a noob just out of the grind, seeing an empty, silent Galaxy I am filled with frustration but the level of sour negativity here is incredible. This isnt abandonware; there are committed people working their asses off on this; dont disrespect them.

What is coming? What are the plans? I'd love FDev to give us some hint, some pointers, some teasers of what is planned, how this amazing piece of work is going to evolve.

o7

 

[Stigbob]

This game will die unless something changes.

People have been saying the games doomed since 2014.

It cannot become a museum piece, just keeping a dwindling number of hardcore players happy; it needs to attract new players, needs to come up with new elements, it needs to change. Recycled joke; the lore musn't be law, rather the lore needs to support the game. The lore was only created in the first place to add depth to the game but, over time, it has become such an involved and studied thing that, for many, it's become too precious to allow to change or evolve.

Exactly like DLC ?, great news they've got you covered on that already.

Fed are trying to keep Elite viable but it seems like this community is part of the problem; the level of criticism on here is incredible, I can understand why FDev do not engage on here when they are subject to such unremitting criticism. Even after the recent charity event, the first post on here about it was critical. Incredible.

This forums been full of it since pre-launch it went full on hostile to positive posters around late 2015 and has been ever since. 99% of the time its just people who confuse being an end-user with being the CEO.

I applaud FDev, this game is fabulous, the Galaxy is amazing and some of the reaction to it is inspiring; Inara, Sag.Eye, Galnet Digest, Distant Worlds. What an incredible creation it is that allows such works to be built on it? What an incredible thing it is that incites the Galnet Open Letter, Drew's stream?

Open letters have been a running joke for a while.

I want to know what's next, I want to know what FDev are cooking up. Believe me; as a noob just out of the grind, seeing an empty, silent Galaxy I am filled with frustration but this isnt abandonware. What is coming? What are the plans? I'd love FDev to give us some hint, some pointers, some teasers of what is planned, how this amazing piece of work is going to evolve.

o7

Which is exactly my point. The game isnt dying we all know it, the game isn't doomed we all know it and nobody really cares that much about gal-net. People are just impatient for news and try to force FDEV's hand with unlikely prophecies of doom.

They'll tell us when marketing say so since they make money from unit sales and they need to carefully balance the hype.

This thread is just effort free DLC hype for them.

 

[Badmiker]

@Stigbob
Your version of the Galaxy is isolated, lore-less and anarchic. The wonder of this game is that it's big enough to accomodate diverse play styles but you are just as quick to disparage and deny other play styles.

Plenty of people care about Galnet; or what Galnet represents/communicates. By dismissing it you are as guilty as anyone of dissing FDev's work.

 

[askavir]

Watch video for what OP agrees with.
Drew Wagar is a community member and author of the official Elite Dangerous novels Reclamation and Premonition.

Which apparently denies him the right to participate in the forum and have an opinion.

 

[Stigbob]

@Stigbob
Your version of the Galaxy is isolated, lore-less and anarchic. The wonder of this game is that it's big enough to accomodate diverse play styles but you are just as quick to disparage and deny other play styles.

Plenty of people care about Galnet; or what Galnet represents/communicates. By dismissing it you are as guilty as anyone of dissing FDev's work.

People have always moaned about gal-net. I like it though, both of which are recurring themes.

Which apparently denies him the right to participate in the forum and have an opinion.

Does it ? nobodies said that.

 

[zimms]

[...]
That's based on my experience of some people being in a permanent state of massive shrieking wobbler since roughly late 2015 when the forum became openly hostile to positive people .

What a coincidence, isn't that also the time when the forum became openly hostile to constructive criticism?

You are indeed entitled to your own opinions and I, for one, do not doubt of your intentions. Although the fact you have a clearly vested interest in self promotion and a personal business directly connected to Elite lore and fluff writing would generally advice against exercising that opinion right, even if it is just for the sake of not venturing too far into the obvious conflict of said interest. Just my 2p.

Totally agree with you that Drew should stick to the lore on the other hand, opinions within a clear and obvious personal and business related conflict of interest like his I would probably not pay too much heed to though.

To be honest, I think that's insulting. I'd say it's pretty evident that Drew cared about Elite's lore long before Salome. And I doubt he has made a huge fortune with Elite and was it probably peanuts to him (never mind he had to pay a couple thousand to be allowed to write the book in the first place).

On a similar note I could ask you if a mod should be allowed to post his personal opinion. Surely there's also a bit of a conflict of interest between the role as a user and moderator.

 

[Stigbob]

What a coincidence, isn't that also the time when the forum became openly hostile to constructive criticism?

There would have to be some first .

To be honest, I think that's insulting. I'd say it's pretty evident that Drew cared about Elite's lore long before Salome. And I doubt he has made a huge fortune with Elite and was it probably peanuts to him (never mind he had to pay a couple thousand to be allowed to write the book in the first place).

On a similar note I could ask you if a mod should be allowed to post his personal opinion. Surely there's also a bit of a conflict of interest between the role as a user and moderator.

Mods are allowed to post their opinions, he's also right Drew does have a financial interest in the fan-fic.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

I agree with the OP agreeing with Drew (who agrees with me, LOL). I listened more than watched, and I'd much rather have Galnet as the topic of my "radio show" than the never-ending commentary on primaries, caucuses, Trump, ad nauseam that I'm usually stuck listening do as I perform daily chores. I also very much enjoyed the Lave Radio show regarding a similar topic. You Brits have soothing voices!

Aw thanks Duck.

Thinking of doing a relaxation ASMR MP3 with added whale song now

For those interested the Lave Radio episode is here :- http://laveradio.com/lave-radio-episode-280/

 

[Darkfyre99]

From https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/governments-and-politics-in-elite-dangerous.225156/ - (Jan 2016)



Now, you could argue that in the initial Lore construction pre-release they didn't think through the full implications of telepresence (just as they didn't for the FSD), but the technology was there in lore long before we got to use it as pilots.

Thanks. I'd completely missed that little tidbit, it seems.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Thanks. I'd completely missed that little tidbit, it seems.

I'd completely forgotten about it in all the previous complaints about telepresence too, and then I thought ... wait, didn't I read something somewhere once?

My way to look at it is that the Elite setting is...

• 17th century Age of Sail traders and pirates
• Fighting each other with 20th century fighters
• In a high-tech space dystopia

None of that makes any sense in terms of a coherent "hard" setting. Forget the fine detail, the basic setting is ridiculously inconsistent wherever you look, and you can't build consistent fine detail on top of that without "but what about ..." questions burying it. But it's great fun as a game concept which has survived almost 40 years with minimal tweaks, and the nature of that game concept itself generates stories which - if everyone agrees to ignore the setting being silly - can be great experiences / reads.

 

[robbyp]

I don't miss Galnet. Never read it. Flying around in spaceships is enough for me and all this lore stuff leaves me cold.

But I know some people like it so maybe FDev should write a few more stories just to keep them happy.

As regards the forums, it was always thus and will always be thus. The game has had continual development for 5 years now, which is pretty good, there is a DLC coming, fleet carriers (which sound exciting in their capabilities) are coming. I'd look on the bright side.