Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

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Its typical. SC can't stand on its own merits, always needs comparing to something else. Even funnier when they do that by proclaiming ED is rubbish, thereby effectively saying SC is a bit less rubbish than ED. :p
Apart from some of the more obvious comments...I suspect most of the dreamcrafting came from former or current E-D players in the comments section...from what I read anyway ;)

That aside... since it's completely unimportant, the idea that in no part can SC stand on it's own merits is misleading...in some parts it certainly can, the planetary tech is very good indeed for one. If we leave out the blatantly obvious detracting remarks and well earned disparaging commentary about Ci¬G's business model and marketing and look for what is actually good in SC, some of it indeed has some merit... despite Chris Roberts' and Ci¬G's marketing departments persistent attempts to scupper the good work done by the devs. Some of it is incredibly poorly managed, implemented and designed of course...but that's no secret either.

For me, the comments section dragged an excellent vid into the mire of the "I hate SC/Elite because.." nonsense that's way too prevalent surrounding the whole thing. It's an easy out for rampant fanbois or detractors of both games and offers nothing new....unlike the vid or OA himself, both were completely honest and dispassionate.
 
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Apart from some of the more obvious comments...I suspect most of the dreamcrafting came from former or current E-D players in the comments section...from what I read anyway ;)

That aside... since it's completely unimportant, the idea that in no part can SC stand on it's own merits is misleading...in some parts it certainly can, the planetary tech is very good indeed for one. If we leave out the blatantly obvious detracting remarks and well earned disparaging commentary about Ci¬G's business model and marketing and look for what is actually good in SC, some of it indeed has some merit... despite Chris Roberts' and Ci¬G's marketing departments persistent attempts to scupper the good work done by the devs. Some of it is incredibly poorly managed, implemented and designed of course...but that's no secret either.

For me, the comments section dragged an excellent vid into the mire of the "I hate SC/Elite because.." nonsense that's way too prevalent surrounding the whole thing. It's an easy out for fanbois of both games and offers nothing new....unlike the vid.

I don't mean that it can't stand on its own legs by itself, just in the mind of some backers it seems unable to. They can't help but compare, but at the same time, by being selective.

They compare the planet tech but totally fail to compare things like gameplay options or stability or anything else that might reflect on SC in a bad light.

Sure the graphics are nice, but this is CryEngine, where as long as you are focused on making things pretty, you can, and CR certainly loves to focus on pretty. Any competent dev shop or even skilled hobbyist can make pretty looking areas in CryEngine.
 
Apart from some of the more obvious comments...I suspect most of the dreamcrafting came from former or current E-D players in the comments section...from what I read anyway ;)

That aside... since it's completely unimportant, the idea that in no part can SC stand on it's own merits is misleading...in some parts it certainly can, the planetary tech is very good indeed for one. If we leave out the blatantly obvious detracting remarks and well earned disparaging commentary about Ci¬G's business model and marketing and look for what is actually good in SC, some of it indeed has some merit... despite Chris Roberts' and Ci¬G's marketing departments persistent attempts to scupper the good work done by the devs. Some of it is incredibly poorly managed, implemented and designed of course...but that's no secret either.

For me, the comments section dragged an excellent vid into the mire of the "I hate SC/Elite because.." nonsense that's way too prevalent surrounding the whole thing. It's an easy out for rampant fanbois or detractors of both games and offers nothing new....unlike the vid or OA himself, both were completely honest and dispassionate.

That's one thing i like about OA. He has that excitement for new stuff but at the same time doesn't go overboard. Cautiously optimistic is probably the right phrase. Perhaps too optimistic in relation to SC, but hey, can't knock him for wanting something new.
 
I don't mean that it can't stand on its own legs by itself, just in the mind of some backers it seems unable to. They can't help but compare, but at the same time, by being selective.

They compare the planet tech but totally fail to compare things like gameplay options or stability or anything else that might reflect on SC in a bad light.

Sure the graphics are nice, but this is CryEngine, where as long as you are focused on making things pretty, you can, and CR certainly loves to focus on pretty. Any competent dev shop or even skilled hobbyist can make pretty looking areas in CryEngine.
Cryengine is still a small scale FPS map generator...it doesn't need to show detail or pretty on that scale...not that I'm disagreeing with your points at all. Chris Roberts picked Cryengine because he was slated for Freelancer having crap graphics...and his understanding of game development is completely visual, that's why he can't translate his ideas of what he actually wants to his dev teams in a way they can realistically understand or implement into actual working game code...that's also why SC is 'pretty' over 'substance'.

It's like the old addage of giving enough chimps enough typewriters and they'll eventually turn out a piece of work to rival Shakespeare...for Ci¬G, there's only one chimp with one typewriter and unfortunately, it's Chris Roberts.
 
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The Pisces Expedition upgrade was $20, warbond only. Old backers with store credit to spend can f right off. Wouldn't surprise me if the Expedition skin was warbond only as well.

I like the term "warbond," it does sound so much nicer than, say, "turn around, bend over, lower your trousers and drawers, and please do not be alarmed by that needlessly large power drill you hear powering up behind you..."
 
For me, the comments section dragged an excellent vid into the mire of the "I hate SC/Elite because.." nonsense that's way too prevalent surrounding the whole thing. It's an easy out for rampant fanbois or detractors of both games and offers nothing new....unlike the vid or OA himself, both were completely honest and dispassionate.
Star Citizen not only doesn't deserve a dispassionate approach, doing so benefits liars and cheats by giving them the appearance of respectability. Star Citizen, like Bitconnect or creationism, is a scam that deserves to be called out. Passionately.

OA is great but his approach for SC is similar to corporate news giving "both sides" of a one-sided story, thus misleading their viewers. Like publishing a flat earth debate as "Views still differ on shape of planet".

This "both sides" approach to SC is wrong.
 
OA is great but his approach for SC is similar to corporate news giving "both sides" of a one-sided story, thus misleading their viewers. Like publishing a flat earth debate as "Views still differ on shape of planet".
People are allowed to believe in creationism, that the earth is flat and that Star Citizen will release. And are free to talk about it.
This allows the off-chance of an unlikely view turning out to be true.
 
People are allowed to believe in creationism, that the earth is flat and that Star Citizen will release. And are free to talk about it.
This allows the off-chance of an unlikely view turning out to be true.

I'll give you creationism but not flat earth. The latter is easily disprovable. The former is highly unlikely, in the face of evidence, but its not exactly disprovable, since any evidence against can be waved away as "that's how the creator did it"... and who knows, maybe there is some sort of really strange creator who went to lots of effort to disprove their own existence rather than making it obvious that they actually exist.

I think ECity is also wrong to declare it to be a scam with such certainty. It has some characteristics of a scam, but we cannot know whether its meant to be one. I personally very much doubt it. I'm certain CR absoloute is trying his best to make the game and probably believes he can do it and what he is doing is right, even if their monetization (and gamification) of funding is downright disgusting.

As the saying goes, never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, and CR wrote the book on project management incompetence.
 
Star Citizen not only doesn't deserve a dispassionate approach, doing so benefits liars and cheats by giving them the appearance of respectability. Star Citizen, like Bitconnect or creationism, is a scam that deserves to be called out. Passionately

well getting too passionate is only enforcing ones view and prevents a change of opinion. Having an opinion because you think thats how it is is great. That involves SC being a scam or the next best thing since sliced bread. Whats problematic in SC discussions is that too often people stay by their opinion not out of conviction but because they feel under attack personally and think they need to uphold their opinion to not get "defeated".

Without moderation discussions degenerate too quickly into taunts and flames and the subject (is SC good or bad?) becomes secondary. The occasional voice of reason simply drowns in a sea of toxcicity. SC in a nutshell. This problem is appareant even here when people refuse to accept common sense or logical objections and continue as if on a mission.

I have for the longest time felt this constant barrage of attack on myself. In all kinds of places and can say that I occasionally lost my distanced stance and became involved to a degree where my goal was to crush my verbal opponent or "pay back" what has been done to me, often stepping down to his or her level in the process. Star Citizen and what it actually is became unimportant...merely a tool to trigger a response and make my opponent lose his cool.

Look wherever you want....thats mostly whats happening whenever Star Citizen becomes the topic. You are simply not allowed to have a negative opinion or objections because if you do....you become a target. I d like to keep my right of free speech but oftentimes it does feel like a fight with the level of hostility that is directed at my person for simply saying "SC feels like a scam to me". The frontier forum is an easy place to "keep your cool" about it mostly because most people in here stay civil and respectful so different views/opinions can coexist.

And the other folks are on my ignore list ^^

If you invest more then the base package then you are passionate about it. Or better....I "hope" you are because with an investment of 5000+ dollars I dont know what else to call it. The same goes for time comittments. Passion isnt only expressed via money even tho I m sure CIG sees it that way. How many people give CIG their free time and nerves, endure bugs and idiotic designs, shoddy work. These people are passionate but it doesnt stop there. You will have people observing from the sidelines. They neither own the game nor have they put in any time in playing but they spend their free time trying to get information, watching videos and streams and participating in discussions. Pretty much everybody I know is passionate about SC one way or the other. Being passionate doesnt mean you are pro-SC only tho. It could involve seeing things that you dont agree with. Actions and directions that threaten Star Citizen success. And in most cases in the past CIG got under attack because they changed the formula, changed the result, deviated from the course. Understanding and patience wont help in that case. Ignore what you think is wrong and you allow the accident to happen.

So if people have worries or might be missing information that could clear up doubts the goal should be to provide information to avoid a clash. Is that what you can observe most places? Star Citizen rather looks like a troll-pit to me. If the community is unable to come to a concensus because of different information levels or understandings it should be the companies job to clear up questions especially as this "war" is rampaging within their own backer community. I dont see CIG smoothing the uproar. I dont seem them coming out to address issues of concern. Instead I see them glossing over serious problems and continuing on their path of least resistence.

When I look at CIG I dont see integrity, honor, competence or honesty. Why should I give em the "benefit of the doubt" when their track record denies them that? And parts of the community has picked up on that and made it their own. Some people display levels of dishonesty that is mindbending and extremely aggrevating to watch. Do we really need to discuss the start of development anymore? At first there were excuses and you might or might not accept those as a reason for the delays. But thats not even on the table anymore. Today the modus operandus is to DENY a fact and go with some thought-up explanation and made-up date.


We ve had enough attempts at dispassionate evaluations in the past. Some were disguised shill pieces, some were disguised hit pieces. Some were actually neutral in their take but not accepted because of their message. I ve listened to Derek Smart and other people in discord channels where they were NOT under personal attack and tried to convey their honest opinion about the project. And most people have an insight and understanding of the matter that makes it hard to see them as "just haters" because what they say makes a lot of sense.

Now you can opt to disregard (not ignore) objections and stay with your own opinion. I constantly read through posts looking for something I dont know yet. Something that would require an update of my view. Unfortunately other people having "fun" doesnt help here nor does other people having fun means I m a disgruntled little sad man whos opinion can be ridiculed. But this requires constant effort on my part. I could as well just turn around and walk away and I m sure a certain demographic in the SC community would LOVE to see that happening. Call me stubborn if you like, personally I think that SC took so much of my time that I am entitled to see this through to the end. If you think you can disregard my view and objections on the basis that I am not invested financially then please allow me to disregard your input because you dont have anything that would help me in finding an answer.

Having said all that I d like to share that the topic Star Citizen has improved my life. For one it was and still is a constant provider of entertainment. It has enlarged my vocabulary as well as improved my written english (I think) and helped me speaking english more fuidly as well. It wasnt all tears of joy certainly. I have felt crushing frustration as I watched my hopes for the game wither away slowly being replaced with a monstrosity that doesnt resemble what SC was supposed to be. I had to defend my views and opinions against scrutiny, had to accept and allow objections and have shaped my final understanding of SC over time. And of course I had to stand up against pure hate, which is hysterical when you consider that people tried to portrait ME as a hater at the same time. Star Citizen has made me realize that the "trench war" we continue to uphold rages on everywhere on earth, regardless the topic. Politics, relationships, beer taste, religion....it doesnt matter. Whenever you have an opinion and stand by it you will most likely come under attack by people who think differently and refuse to allow you your own. Star Citizen thus isnt exceptional at all. It just is being allowed to ramp up because there is no answer, there is no final verdict and everybody is hanging in limbo finding equal amounts of "prove" and data that supports either side. Meanwhile SC continues to stay in "active development" without going anywhere anytime soon and the company responsible is playing grey mouse trying to get by.

Star Citizen after 8 years isnt a simple topic anymore. And its next to impossible to sum it up in a single sentence. We remind each other of things in the past and we all know them even if they slipped our minds. After that kind of journey writing long posts is the very least you can do (if you dont aim to simply make fun of it). Occasionally I still dabble in YT comment sections even tho I really should know better by now. And I even avoid trying to convince people of how bad SC really is because (from a technical and development point of view).....everybody is his/her own boss. But I play devils advocate or simply post a few factual tidbits when I see someone getting it really wrong and that goes for SC bashers just the same. At most its a fly-by post I dont really try to trigger a discussion or troll people. But regardless often enough my inbox simply explodes and replies try to shove lies and misinformation down my throat, drown me in vitriol and often enough there is that personal attack that is so out of line and drastic that I sometimes feel staring at my screen with an open mouth....shaken by the level of pure hatred that is directed against me for....what exactly? I am hiding behind an avatar because I feel threatened by some of these people and the thought of them knowing my RL name and adress names me anxious. I dont really know how Derek Smart lives the way he does. He certainly got more then 1 death threat.

You might want to try to to display both sides as "equally extreme and bad" and I would disagree. Only one side continously has overstepped behavior, etiquette and respect in such ways that all I can think of is "despicable" and if you reveal yourself as one of those people I will instantly ignore, ban and disregard you or what you have to say. I just wish people would do the same with me when they have a different view but it seems that the majority of the population with access to the internet is still living in caves.
 
Well I see 2 things:
  • With ships costing multiple hundreds of dollars, tens of dollars expensive skins - as shocking as it sounds - are perfectly in phase.
  • If CIG must stop selling 3/4 figures ships, they'll have to find another way of gathering the same yearly amount of money, so they'll have to replace 10x $250 ships with 100x $25 skins ¯\(ツ)

I won't feel for the whinners: backers shaped this pricing strategy through all these years of embracing CIG's marketing tactics. They get what they deserve.

They want a change? Easy, the only tool is their wallets. Stop opening them like girls of bad virtues and stop absolving CIG as soon as a shiny carrot is pointed at them.
 
Yup...didn't go down too well at all. I'd be more content if the idiot whales who keep buying this stuff with real cash would actually wake up and tie this money grabbing into the very real fact that Ci¬G are desparate for cash. The $100 price hike in the Carrack base price, the $25 Disney skin for the same ship, the $250 price hike in the ship packages containing it...everything is sliding downhill and they're still forking out cash, albeit now with a caveat that it 'makes them feel bad' that they spent it.

Let's see if they continue to spend as the year progresses, the ship production line produces less and less and the 'planned' features continue to be culled relentlessly from the roadmap.

I suspect one of the next features to go will be the CCU system...it's getting close already with the almost guaranteed warbond system with new ships...just ensuring that folks like me who give them zero new cash year after year but continue to reshuffle store credit on new additions won't be able to continue doing so.
 
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I'll give you creationism but not flat earth. The latter is easily disprovable. The former is highly unlikely, in the face of evidence, but its not exactly disprovable, since any evidence against can be waved away as "that's how the creator did it"... and who knows, maybe there is some sort of really strange creator who went to lots of effort to disprove their own existence rather than making it obvious that they actually exist.
Braben is the "creator" of the Elite Dangerous galaxy, and I've yet to see his face etched into the stars. 🤷

Elon Musk will actually argue that mathematically speaking, the odds are much more in favor of us living in a created construct (a simulation) than "ground zero" reality.

Anyway, isn't this the Star Citizen thread?
 
Yup...didn't go down too well at all. I'd be more content if the idiot whales who keep buying this stuff with real cash would actually wake up and tie this money grabbing into the very real fact that Ci¬G are desparate for cash. The $100 price hike in the Carrack base price, the $25 Disney skin for the same ship, the $250 price hike in the ship packages containing it...everything is sliding downhill and they're still forking out cash, albeit now with a caveat that it 'makes them feel bad' that they spent it.

Let's see if they continue to spend as the year progresses, the ship production line produces less and less and the 'planned' features continue to be culled relentlessly from the roadmap.

I suspect one of the next features to go will be the CCU system...it's getting close already with the almost guaranteed warbond system with new ships...just ensuring that folks like me who give them zero new cash year after year but continue to reshuffle store credit on new additions won't be able to continue doing so.

Best February yet, doubling or nearly doubling what they've done in previous Februaries. Following the best January.

Took them until April last year to pull in as much as they have so far this year.

The money is still rolling in.

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